Fist thing is that the other player's talisman of pure faith should be going off like a police siren.
The wearer of a phylactery of faithfulness is aware of any action or item that could adversely affect his alignment and his standing with his deity...
Now I don't know the rest of your party, but you're playing WotR, so I'm going to assume that you probably have a Paladin or at least a Cleric/Inquisitor of a Good deity, not to mention the other PC are more likely then not to worship a Good deity. I also assume that most are good alignment themselves.
Associating with an evil character is one thing, associating with a character that is not just evil but revels in his evilness is something else. Continuing to allow him in the party puts at risk both the mission and Golarion as a whole, not to mention the eternal souls of the PCs. This is not the last time that a powerful evil creature will offer them power in exchange for turning on their companions. What is to stop him from deciding that he would rather run the Worldwound then stop it?
Do you think that Iomedae at the start of book 5 is going to trust any of them to rescue her herald? The other PCs need to be "told" by their talisman that he needs to go ASAP.
The main consequences seem to be that Nocticula owns him, body and soul. However she is motivated to not hinder the group in closing the worldwound so that reduces the chance of her messing with him up until he has done what she wants.
You could have him encounter as a terrible warning some other former paramours of Nocticula who are sufferring sufficiently terrible fates, perhaps he is beginning to be permanently. tied to the midnight isles. Really though I can't think of anything more obvious that those things you have already tried
The main consequences seem to be that Nocticula owns him, body and soul. However she is motivated to not hinder the group in closing the worldwound so that reduces the chance of her messing with him up until he has done what she wants.
You could have him encounter as a terrible warning some other former paramours of Nocticula who are sufferring sufficiently terrible fates, perhaps he is beginning to be permanently. tied to the midnight isles. Really though I can't think of anything more obvious that those things you have already tried
Also remember that her blessing brings no promise of protection. There are plenty of unique and powerful demons competing for Nocticula's attentions and many may not take kindly to a new (and powerful) minion coming under her complete and total control. I would have these competitors attack the party, obviously targeting him, in an attempt to both eliminate a possible rival and gain Noticula's attention.
She is a Chaotic Evil Demon Lord. She may change her mind at any point, maybe she decides that she wants the secret of the Nahindrian Elixir for herself and orders him to retrieve it for her, or just dominates him and takes it for herself. No Lawful or Good organization is going to allow him around, they just won't take that risk.
Well, it's a bit complicated: The CG sorceress (barely) worships Nethys. The NG fighter (barely) worships Abadar. So no good gods involved. The Big Red Flag is, quite unfortunately, the GMPC LG cleric of Iomedae.
So as a GM, I'm suddenly in the spot of trying to be a fair GM and let him "do his thing", while at the same time properly roleplaying the abject horror and disgust of my cleric, while at the third(?) time messing with the player for being such a complete... er... "disruption" to the other players.
After talking it over with the non-evil PCs, looks like we're going to have Nocticula slowly corrupt him.
(1) I'll start with temptations of killing whatever succubus he's with that night and eating her heart. (Following the description of the ritual assassination provided in the shrine.) He'll start at a ludicrously simple Will save (maybe 15 or so) and then it'll go up by 1 each night. Just representing her messing with him to see how far she can push him...
(2) The cleric is refusing to heal him at all, and he already lost Arushelae's Anarchic Gift, so that 2d6 Charisma drain is going to take a while to come back.
(3) Yes, he will no longer be allowed into "good" areas, such as Drezen, Kenabres, or anywhere near the Queen.
(4) I figure at the start of Book 5 Iomedae is going to forcibly remove it. I cannot imagine her tolerating it in her presence.
We'll see how it plays out...
EDIT: Just to be clear, the other players are just as uncomfortable with his sudden and complete lack of morality as I am. They'd like me to give him a "gentle push" back on track. But by the time they meet Iomedae, I just don't see her tolerating his presence. We'll see what happens...
*FINAL* follow-up, I promise! (Unless, of course, other GMs want to discuss rather than listen to me ramble.)
I just realized that my easiest course of action is to play Nocticula completely in-character. Every morning, the cleric casts an all-day Magic Circle Against Evil on the fighter to protect everyone from mental domination.
Nocticula Would Not Like.
So I'm going to have her Dispel it, and charmingly inform the party that, while the other three are welcome to protect their own minds, they are not allowed to shield "her little pet" from her control.
It's far more in line with the way I see her viewing the PC who was silly enough to accept her gift -- a puppet and occasional toy who might provide some amusement, so she wants 24/7 access to his fragile little mind...
I think the thing that irritates me the most is that this is our "core" group that has been playing together for 5+ years now, all of whom have a tacit agreement that "jerk PCs are no fun". In fact, the player playing the bard was one of the most vociferous complainers about another player's completely amoral Runequest character.
We broke off into our own group just to get rid of people who wanted to play antiheroes, or selfish party-robbers, or jerks to NPCs. And we've had a marvelous time running groups that are morally unambiguous: They are generous, well-meaning, and I love them all.
So watching him decide to play a borderline evil PC without even discussing the sudden total change in style with us was a bit rude, in my opinion.
I think showing him that being evil has its own down side in-game is the right approach, but as I said, it's just making sure it's a gentle-but-firm nudge that's completely in-line with the way the game has run so far.
Maybe he's pushing back against the goodie two-shoes nature of the campaign and is going more for a "What happens in the abyss stays in the abyss" type thing, he might tone it down after getting back to LG Land, i mean Drezen:-)
Maybe he's pushing back against the goodie two-shoes nature of the campaign and is going more for a "What happens in the abyss stays in the abyss" type thing, he might tone it down after getting back to LG Land, i mean Drezen:-)
I'm glad to see you're back! With a new avatar no less! I didn't see a single post from you on Sunday! I was getting worried!
But yeah, he's bound his soul to a Demon Lord. Sure, you could consider it a "Vegas Wedding", but that's a Vegas Wedding that'll follow him for eternity.
Given days to mull it over, I'm pretty happy with the whole, 'Escalating badness' angle. As someone said, Nocticula would prefer Deskari to fail. So she's going to see this gullible bard as a huge 'weak link' in the group of heroes destined to stop Deskari. So her job is to expose him as the pathetic weakling he is, convincing the rest of the group to go about their business without him.
So she can't just kill him outright, because then the group would get all offended-like and go after her instead of their 'real' prey. She just has to make sure he's enough of a liability that they willingly dump him. Step 1 is to prevent them from casting their coveted Magic Circle. That'll irritate them no end. If that doesn't convince them to dump him, having him commit a brutal murder is Step 2.
We'll see what she plans for Step 3. If the bard isn't looking for a Miracle by the time I've finished Step 1 and progressed Step 2 to the, "I might not make my next Will save" point, then he really is the weak link and needs to go.
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I do like that your problem contributes more to the campaign. At the very base, she's doing all of this to gain allies and she just gained a major one with the bard. My PCs were all good and quiet and wanted nothing to do with that entire section of the campaign.
So much so that I would actually consider it a failing of the AP to set people up on a crusade vs demons but then go pal around with them later. Its too bad, I love the city as a backdrop and have run a campaign there.
I do like that your problem contributes more to the campaign. My PCs were all good and quiet and wanted nothing to do with that entire section of the campaign. At the very base, she's doing all of this to gain allies and she just gained a major one with the bard.
So much so that I would actually consider it a failing of the AP to set people up on a crusade vs demons but then go pal around with them later. Its too bad, I love the city as a backdrop and have run a campaign there.
Yeah, you make a beautiful point. I've really loved how I've run things so far.
Reaction #1: "Oh, wow! The demons have a real live livable city here! Maybe they're not so terrible after all!"
Reaction #2 (after I've revealed some of the seamy underbelly): "OK. Demons are just awful, awful creatures that need to be exterminated! This city is a cesspit of corruption! Ew!"
The problem is, the bard has shown a complete willingness to utterly abandon morality and 'hang' with said demons, and the other PCs are justifiably upset with it.
It *would* make for a wonderful RP moment, except he's coming into direct conflict with my GMPC, and I do my utmost to make GMPCs "silent but helpful" because they're only there because we only have 3 players and need a fourth.
I'm in a bind not so much as a GM, but as a 'fourth player' who can't stand what he's doing, and as an 'observer' who's noted that both other players are already talking about ways to kill him.
I've seen what PvP can do to a group. I'm trying to head it off at the pass...
You're right about the obvious concerns; you don't want PvP in a a group and you don't want the GMPC to take too vocal of a lead.
First I'm curious how anyone found out about it, unless the character brought it up. I was under the opinion that the profane gifts were undetectable.
With a big theme of the AP, have you talked to the player about this? Does he want a story where he falls... and/or then gets redeemed? Or is he doing what feels right for his PC? I'm not sure magic circle would do anything to him or Nocticula, especially as you mentioned he has beyond morality?
In book 5 or 6 doesn't something happen if a PC accepts a gift from her? Or I think something very bad could happen in front of Iomedae.
You're right about the obvious concerns; you don't want PvP in a a group and you don't want the GMPC to take too vocal of a lead.
First I'm curious how anyone found out about it, unless the character brought it up. I was under the opinion that the profane gifts were undetectable.
With a big theme of the AP, have you talked to the player about this? Does he want a story where he falls... and/or then gets redeemed? Or is he doing what feels right for his PC? I'm not sure magic circle would do anything to him or Nocticula, especially as you mentioned he has beyond morality?
In book 5 or 6 doesn't something happen if a PC accepts a gift from her? Or I think something very bad could happen in front of Iomedae.
(1) In Book 4, she very publicly (and in person) offers the gift to everyone. So he accepted the gift in public, in front of everyone, with everyone clearly cognizant of what she was offering.
(2) The player is absolutely a "play by the moment" kind of guy. He was neutral. He got damaged by Desna's Forbiddance. He's resented Good gods ever since. So there's an underlying theme of resentment towards Good-aligned gods in there. There's just the unfortunate fact that such a theme directly contradicts the overall theme of the AP. And the player hasn't considered that aspect of it at all.
(3) Magic Circle still makes you immune to mind-affecting effects from evil creatures. It's one of the most overpowered spells in the game from that perspective. So if he had it on him, she couldn't control him. That's just unacceptable to her.
I am going to have a similar situation in my campaign, although it is something I expect and built into my plot. Since day 1, one of my pc's has been an agent of Nocticula who is tasked with getting the crusading forces in debt to him and by extension Nocticula, I expect the players to notice this in book 4. They have missed a large number of clues either missing them , explaining them away as divine intervention by Iomedea....... (not to help her Paladins, but the Rogue worshipping a different god), or just not followed them up.
Specifically he has not acted against the group , although he has kept a few secrets when he did something the Paladin would have objected to but which he felt was helpful.
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Hmm... don't remember her announcement being public, not that it matters if it was then it was.
I do know that about magic circle and I agree with its power. But he is under no magical influence by her. They can chat at any time and she can use her ways to influence him. From what you've said she probably won't need to use any magic on him at all.
But the biggest issue is PvP and player trust and you sound experienced enough to know that you're the only one with the answers for it.
If you're confident that the PCs will still get along then things could be fine. The GMPC cleric could be strong and silent and assume that along the way he will right his ship if they close the Worldwound.
If there's going to be problems though you should write the best exit scene possible :) Seems like you're gaming with friends so the process could be easier than you expect.
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Hmm... don't remember her announcement being public, not that it matters if it was then it was.
I do know that about magic circle and I agree with its power. But he is under no magical influence by her. They can chat at any time and she can use her ways to influence him. From what you've said she probably won't need to use any magic on him at all.
But the biggest issue is PvP and player trust and you sound experienced enough to know that you're the only one with the answers for it.
If you're confident that the PCs will still get along then things could be fine. The GMPC cleric could be strong and silent and assume that along the way he will right his ship if they close the Worldwound.
If there's going to be problems though you should write the best exit scene possible :) Seems like you're gaming with friends so the process could be easier than you expect.
Well, thank you. Yes, it's friends, and yes, we're at the point that I have to write an "exit scene" because this player has suddenly decided, "To Hell with Good-aligned gods!" in the middle of an AP where that's... er... really Not OK.
The other players have already declared that they're ready to execute him... the fighter is honestly wondering whether or not to do it before or after he betrays them.So it's Bad.
I just need to get them to the end of Book 4 without killing each other so Iomedae can smack him around a bit.
Won't adjust his attitude, but it'll at least keep the other PCs from killing him prematurely.
I've been thinking about ways to handle this and would appreciate any advice or suggestions.
The other party members are a LG Paladin of Iomedae, NG cleric of Sarenrae, LN cavalier, and a NG summoner.
The witch is CN, and was basically seduced by access to the knowledge that Nocticula has access to (the fact that the meeting took place in what amounts to a library fed in to this). I certainly gave the warnings, but I don't feel that accepting her ascension in and of itself is enough to cause an alignment shift.
So far the party just thinks that Nocticula could potentially use the Witch as a puppet, so I'm going to redo the end to the book and have Nocticula manifest her powers through the Witch and kill Baphomet that way rather than making a personal appearance to do so.
Baphomet will then deal very harshly with the witch when they meet at the end of the 5th book.
The witch won't be invited to the meeting with Iomedae and Galfrey will stop talking to her, too. I'm not quite sure how Irabeth will handle it, but Anevia is fairly close to the Witch, so I'm considering having some marital strife between them, with Irabeth taking a hard line against her while Anevia wants to try to help her.
Aravashnial had been something of a mentor for the witch, and he'll be upset with her.
I've decided that Arushalae will maintain her gift with the witch for now, with the idea that she's trying to save the witch from herself.
This does of course lead to some balance issues with a witch who's intelligence will shortly be quite literally off the charts, but I'm re-balancing everything already, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem. A character with the kind of bonus should feel exceptionally powerful as is, so I'm not really worried about that part.
I assume that this will eventually lead to them trying to remove the effect. I've think that depending on how this was done Nocticula would either try to stop them (if the witch was not party to the removal) or end it herself (if the witch was).
The witch has some ideas about having conversations in an anti-magic field, but I really don't see Nocticula letting that one go very often. There's also some question in my mind as to if Nocticula is sufficiently powerful that she would fall under the diety exemption to anti-magic field.
My major issue right now is that for now Nocticula interests are aligned with the party and I don't really see a reason why she would suddenly try to kill them all.
(3) Magic Circle still makes you immune to mind-affecting effects from evil creatures. It's one of the most overpowered spells in the game from that perspective. So if he had it on him, she couldn't control him. That's just unacceptable to her.
Note that this really isn't a problem for Noticula, particular when someone has her Profane Ascension. As you've mentioned, she can cast greater dispel magic over that link.
The thing is that her various mind control abilities are nasty, but she can be much more creative with her other spell like abilities.
At will caster level 30 Blasphemy is the big one, but some of the other ones are much more interesting.
Consider that Nocticula can cast shapechange on the person with the ascension. There's no save on that, but creative use could really screw with things.
If the party is in the midnight isles she also gets the extra abilities for demon lords, which includes miracle.
A slightly liberal reading of the profane ascension ability would allow the use of demon lord home realm abilities while Nocticula is the midnight isles, regardless of where the ascended individual is.
Well, I think the two of us should compare notes as this proceeds for both of us. And I think that it isn't particularly off-topic for this thread. We're both GMs dealing with the unfortunate situation of someone accepting the ascension.
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Maybe for both of you the campaign should be about redeeming nocticula (and your pc) as much as thwarting deskari:)
I had the PCs invited to a party after word about them had gotten out. Its a way to introduce the elements that you want to in a slightly more controlled element rather than everything the multiverse has to offer.
I also had one of the very anti-demon PCs start to take contracts to kill off other demons... which, of course, lead to trouble.
An update on my Profane Ascended Witch situation:
The party is on the way to the Nahydrian mine, having just cleared the barge.
The witch wants to make or have made a staff with Anti-magic field in it so that she can protect herself from Nocticula at will. I'm going to have Nocticula allow this for now, but only to give the witch a false sense of security.
The Witch is already considering asking for help from Zohls (an Empyreal lord, chosen because the Witch thinks she might be a bit understanding of the desire to know everything). She wants to keep her boons, but not be under the thrall of Nocticula.
Meanwhile, the Paladin and Cleric have contacted Galfrey via sending to warn her and have her prepare the other warded cell in the Drezen dungeon for the Witch. Galfrey's response was that she would consult with Iomedae, but also to ask if the Paladin and Cleric shouldn't just execute the Witch.
I'm going to have Galfrey contact the Paladin via sending later to tell him to warn her shortly before returning to Drezen. She'll then have the party met upon return with a group of martial classes surrounding a few casters with AMF up.
Assuming that she actually goes along with this and gets thrown in the dungeon, I'm trying to decide on a few different things:
First, how quickly Iomedae asks for the rest of the party's help. I had been thinking that it would be almost immediately on their return to Drezen.
Second, I think the dungeon will be a good place for the Witch's patron to show up. She had chosen the Fate patron, so I had decided a while back that her Patron was Chidali, Empyreal lord of fate, safety, and serendipity. I'm still undecided what she will actually say, but she'll likely make some sort of offer of aid, likely in the form of a miracle to remove Noticula's Ascension.
From a narrative perspective, I like the idea of the witch talking to her patron while the rest of the party meets with Iomedae, but that will be a bit of a pain to actually run.
The big question is how Nocticula would react to all of this. She could try to teleport the Witch away, but I'll probably have that fail due to the Sword of Valor. How she reacts past that point will depend on how the players act.
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Well, I have a less spectacular update. Our player took his bard's conversion to CE as a "final nail in the coffin" that he was "burned out" on RPGs, so he's resigned indefinitely from the group.
It's going to utterly obliterate our gaming short-term (he was a member of almost every single game we played, and we're more concerned for him personally than for our RPG life so we're focusing on supporting him), but long-term if we resume WotR we're going to say Nocticula just took ownership of him and we'll see how the AP goes with only 3 PCs. Considering all the complaints about how it's an "AP on 'Easy' mode", we'll see whether 3 PCs are sufficient. (Though it's a fighter, a sorceress, and a cleric, so they've got all the bases covered in a major way.)
I'll post to my thread as updates occur.
EDIT: For those who follow my threads, this is "Hi" from Rise of the Runelords, "NoPrey" from Wrath of the Righteous, and "Hayden" from Jade Regent. The kids' Wednesday Serpent's Skull game and our Sunday Runequest games go on, and it's likely we'll continue Jade Regent, but Wrath of the Righteous is now on indefinite hiatus as we re-work schedules.
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Sorry to hear about your friend. Its too bad (I enjoyed your journal too), but obviously you're doing the right thing by supporting him.
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Yeah, bummer man:( hopefully it turns out well long term:)
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Well, (and last off-topic post in a GM thread... for now...) he was in good spirits last night, and I asked him whether he'd still be willing to edit the write-ups I have in the queue, and he said that would be fine.
So more writing, less prep time, and less gaming. Should make me quite productive for a few weeks.
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The overview page for Midnight Isles states that the characters should be 5th tier coming in, and 7th tier by the end. That means I should expect to see seven mythic trials in this book. However, I have searched and can only find three:
Have most of you just been awarding the tiers ad-hoc instead?
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The overview page for Midnight Isles states that the characters should be 5th tier coming in, and 7th tier by the end. That means I should expect to see seven mythic trials in this book. However, I have searched and can only find three:
** spoiler omitted **
Have most of you just been awarding the tiers ad-hoc instead?
We've become strong believers in, "They level when the book says they should level."
It avoids murderhobodom ("We're only 100 XP away from our next level! Let's run around in the wilderness until something attacks us!"!), tracking trials ("Just what DOES count as a mythic trial?"), and other nonsense.
The only thing I regret is not being able to reward XP for good roleplay or heroic deeds, but things like hero points can make up for that as well.
In short, no; I didn't pay any attention and just mythiced them when it said to mythic them.
SIDE NOTE: We're going to run with just Jade Regent for a few weeks, but the three remaining players (me, GothBard, and Torath) have been discussing just continuing the AP with 3 PCs to see whether it works. That might involve granting early levels and/or tiers, but I somehow doubt it.
The overview page for Midnight Isles states that the characters should be 5th tier coming in, and 7th tier by the end. That means I should expect to see seven mythic trials in this book. However, I have searched and can only find three:
** spoiler omitted **
Have most of you just been awarding the tiers ad-hoc instead?
You can also look at page 5 of the foreword and all 7 trials are listed there. That is the case for all the trials in the AP.
But ad hoc is just as viable and probably better.
Mythic Trials for The Midnight Isles
1) destroy nahyndrian refinery
2) close rift at fane
3) defeat Minagho
4) become notorious in Alushinyrra
5) secure Nocticula's help
6) defeat Hepzamira
7) witness Nocticula's pownage of Baphomet
SIDE NOTE: We're going to run with just Jade Regent for a few weeks, but the three remaining players (me, GothBard, and Torath) have been discussing just continuing the AP with 3 PCs to see whether it works. That might involve granting early levels and/or tiers, but I somehow doubt it.
You can probably just run as written and still do fairly well with only 3 PCs. Really the loss of one action a round may help to balance it a lot more.
You can probably just run as written and still do fairly well with only 3 PCs. Really the loss of one action a round may help to balance it a lot more.SIDE NOTE: We're going to run with just Jade Regent for a few weeks, but the three remaining players (me, GothBard, and Torath) have been discussing just continuing the AP with 3 PCs to see whether it works. That might involve granting early levels and/or tiers, but I somehow doubt it.
Thanks. That's pretty much my opinion. With an arcane bloodline sorceress, a full-blown hierophant cleric, and a fighter doing stupid damage, I suspect even with 3 PCs the AP will be fairly easy.
If/when we pick up again I'll report on how it goes with a party of 3...
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Contributor
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We have 3 as well: Paladin (Champion), Inquisitor (Hierophant), and Bloodrager (Trickster). They also have two cohorts, however, so action economy is probably a wash. Still, it's been going well so far. I'm a little worried about their damage output, especially since the Bloodrager just learned Haste...
The party cleared out the mine pretty effectively. The combat with Hepzamirah ended up being a good example of what a mythic character can do, as the cavalier had been saving up his mythic points and blew all but two of them to do over 1000 damage to her in a single round.
I decided to let them fight Baphomet rather than just letting Nocticula kill him for them. The paladin and cleric (who had the only tuning fork for the prime material) failed their will saves against the banishment portion of Blasphemy and got knocked back to Golarion.
The combat was starting to turn against the party when the witch used mythic slumber against Baphomet, and he went down as he's only mythic in his home realm. He was quickly coup de graced.
The paladin and cleric were collected by Aravashnial and spent the rest of the day preparing to deal with the witch.
The paladin had taken the commune with power ability, which I had house ruled to be a bit better than commune, on the theory that a mythic path ability should do a bit more than give a once a day casting of a 5th level spell. Iomedae told him that the safest thing to do was to kill the witch and that she had certainly earned such, but that a wish or miracle would remove the effect.
The paladin then got in touch with Galfrey, who got them in touch with a high level cleric of Iomedae to perfom the miracle. Galfrey still told them that they were better off just killing her.
I played Aravashnial as feeling angry and betrayed, as the Witch has the riftwarden orphan trait, so he had been acting as a bit of a mentor for her. The paladin talked him in to trying to help her.
The next day they asked the cleric to open a gate to the mine, and they had the rest of the party and the rescued potential sacrifices come through. The witch had to be talked in to it, as she wanted to go to the edge of town where it would be safer. Aravashnial had an antimagic field up on the other side of the gate, which she stepped in to as soon as she crossed over. The cavalier reacted poorly to the 'trap', but calmed down once he realized that she was okay with it.
The witch allowed herself to be escorted to the warded cells in the dungeon, where the Iomedaean cleric NPC was about to prepare to cast miracle. Once she was in the cell her familiar, a thrush, flew out and said that he'd be back later.
That was when I had a Solar appear from the Sword of Valor (I know the book says planetar, but I was trying to make clear the importance of the matter). The solar asked that the party assemble. The summoner, paladin, and cavalier gathered together, as did most of the NPCs, leaving the PC cleric (who was sleep immune), and a few NPC paladin guards in the dungeon with the witch.
The NPC guards fell asleep suddenly and Chadali (Empyreal lord of fate and the witch's patron) appeared quietly and told the witch that she appreciated the attempt to gain knowledge, but that where she went for it was very poorly chosen. She further told the witch that she should accept the miracle offered.
Chadali then left, the guards awoke, and the NPC cleric came down to the dungeon again. She performed the miracle, but just as the witch left the cell to have the profane ascension removed Nocticula ended it.
The 13 permanent negative levels and 14 points of charisma drain were quickly fixed by a greater restoration cast by the PC cleric, putting the total cost to the party at 30,000 GP for this particular experience.
From there I continued with the start of book 5.
As an aside, is their a formal rule for how skill point loss due to a permanent intelligence reduction is handled? I couldn't find anything and ended up having the witch remove 45 skill points of her choice.
As an aside, is their a formal rule for how skill point loss due to a permanent intelligence reduction is handled? I couldn't find anything and ended up having the witch remove 45 skill points of her choice
Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.
Emphasis added. In retrospect she should have kept track of the "extra" skillpoints. That being said, I don't see any reason you can't just let the player remove them herself.
In the forward:)
Its always the last place you look.... Or right after you give up looking:-)
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Its always the last place you look.... Or right after you give up looking:-)
That's what YOU think!
One of my friends found his keys and KEPT ON LOOKING FOR THEM, just so when people say, "It's always in the last place you look," he could say, "No it's not!"
Yeah, he's a fun guy!
man you should see the stuff i lose in my hand:-)
I've been going over Midnight Isles as I'm planning to divert my Runelords group into TMI (the plot hook being that Karzoug destroys the poem with the information on the Runeforge, at which point a vision to the Cleric will let them know they can gain that information if they help Queen Galfrey with a small problem she's having (the background being that nearly all of the Mythic Heroes in WotR have fallen, with only the Paladin remaining at Dresden (along with the ascended Succubus), after the events of Book 4).
So the group is going to the Isles to not only help Galfrey dissuade Nocticula from joining the other Demon Lords playing in the Worldwound, but also to get the information on where the Runeforge is located. I'm also going to leave a couple hints concerning Nocticula ahead of time - the damage to the lower level was partly caused when Nocticula sent demons into the area during Earthfall so to retrieve tomes she felt belonged to her and which were stolen by Karzoug's predecessor.
I've already integrated Mythic into my game, though they're going to be a few tiers down. That shouldn't be a problem seeing this part of the AP is one of the underpowered ones, though I'll also do test-runs ahead of time and can also fudge results as needed.
(I might, after the group defeats Karzoug, have them end with Book 6 of WotR. They'll still be several tiers below what is suggested but seeing Book 6 is also rather underpowered... probably not a problem.)
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Anyway, as I mentioned at the start, I've been going over the book and noticed something awry. On page 38 it states Kestoglyr says in Abyssal "She abandoned me... but you will be my keys to earning a true place at her side!"
Page 40? Likewise, if the PCs attempt to speak to the demoniacs in anything other than Common while disguised as Kestoglyr, the demoniacs get suspicious, since they know the graveknight never learned to speak Abyssal.
I'm not a trained editor. I'm an abstractor. Yet I caught that. How'd that get through editorial without a flag?
Creative Director
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Anyway, as I mentioned at the start, I've been going over the book and noticed something awry. On page 38 it states Kestoglyr says in Abyssal "She abandoned me... but you will be my keys to earning a true place at her side!"
Page 40? Likewise, if the PCs attempt to speak to the demoniacs in anything other than Common while disguised as Kestoglyr, the demoniacs get suspicious, since they know the graveknight never learned to speak Abyssal.
I'm not a trained editor. I'm an abstractor. Yet I caught that. How'd that get through editorial without a flag?
Turns out, even trained editors make mistakes now and then. Try to remember that you're NOT seeing the hundreds of corrections they DID catch.
In any event... Page 40 should read: if the PCs attempt to speak to the demoniacs in anything other than Abyssal while disguised as Kestoglyr, the demoniacs get suspicious.
thanks :) that makes more sense. :)
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Out of curiousity, one of the things noted after book 6 in the 'continuing the campaign' part is that it makes specific mention of Nocticula being a target of redemption for the mythic t10 heroes.
What would Iomedae's reaction be to someone in book 5 who specifically took that boon of Nocticula's with the goal to try and redeem the Queen of Succubi? I mean, wasn't there specifically an in-universe character somewhere who was under the impression that Nocticula is 'just misunderstood' anyway?
Say you have a CG character who's nice, kind, and a little loopy, like say... Luna Lovegood, and believes entirely that the succubus queen is just suffering prejudice. What would the reaction be to that character when they joyfully took her profane ascension and tried to redeem Nocticula? Speaking of that, I'm kind of curious how Nocticula would react.
The character in question is Ayavah, a tiefling artist living in Magnimar... check the legal text at the start of City of Locusts. ^_^
Iomedae should either be aware of the PC's motivation, or (if the PC is as innocent-looking as you suggest) willing to inquire further. She might find the PC's motivations odd or unwise, but she might not want to punish them outright for it.
Nocticula is almost certain to be amused by such a motivation, at least at first. Of course, whether this leads anywhere depends on the PC's skills and your interpretation of Nocticula's response.
Hope this helps. ^_^
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Folks interested in finding out a little bit more about Ayavah and Nocticula's possible redemption might wanna check out Pathfinder #100 in a few months...
I can only favorite that post once.
Will it help me decide whether/how to proceed with any redemption of Nocticula in my own game? I'm hesitant to go ahead if it'll disrupt a future AP...