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Under backpacks and other containers, it says that "containers for small characters weigh 1/4 and hold 1/4 the contents of normal containers.
1. Does this mean a small sized Handy Haversack would only weigh 1.25 lbs?
2. How does this affect the extradimensional capacity of the haversack?
3. A Masterwork Backpack raises your carry capacity by +1 str, can a handy haversack be masterwork? Can it be darkleaf?
4. Side question, why is there absolutely 0 gear to boost the carry capacity of your mount :(
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1. I suppose so.
2. It wouldn't.
3. I don't think so.
4. Because if you have that much stuff, you have TOO much stuff.
How much stuff are you lugging around that this is an issue? The Haversack is already super-light considering what it can hold. Even if it still weighs 5 pounds, that's only 5 pounds.
There's tons of gear available to boost the carry capacity of a mount. Replace the saddle bags with bags of holding, for instance.
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Kaduka, those reduce the weight of items carried, they don't boost the carry capacity of the animal. Humanoids get shoulder straps of ant haul, masterwork backpacks, belts of strength, etc.
Mounts get nothing.
And you can't put barding, riders, or saddles in a bag of holding. (At least not usefully.)
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Kudaku*, those reduce the weight of items carried, they don't boost the carry capacity of the animal. Humanoids get shoulder straps of ant haul, masterwork backpacks, belts of strength, etc.
Mounts get nothing.
And you can't put barding, riders, or saddles in a bag of holding. (At least not usefully.)
I'd say they increase the carry capacity of the animal by reducing the weight of items carried, but fair enough.
The muleback shoulder straps are a unique effect and stack with ant haul - you could use both.
Coincidentally, why can't you put a heavy load belt on a mount?
Anything that boosts the carrying capacity of a PC can be used to boost the carrying capacity of a mount assuming the mount has that slot.
A horse can wear Muleback Cords (shoulder slots) which will triple its carrying capacity.
You can find what creature types have what slots in the front cover of Animal Archive. Here is the link
Regarding Haversacks, they are a static weight, 5 lbs. They do not benefit from alternate materials or different sizes since there are no rules covering that for Wondrous Items. With that said, your GM may do something for you but, personally, I wouldn't since the amount of weight savings related to the weight is part of the function of the Haversack.
- Gauss
FLite, Why couldn't you put barding into a bag of holding? There is nothing there that says you cannot. For that matter, why cant mounts wear Belts of Strength or Muleback Cords? It is in the rules they can.
- Gauss
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Anything that boosts the carrying capacity of a PC can be used to boost the carrying capacity of a mount assuming the mount has that slot.
- Gauss
Ah... Yeah. I forgot that was a PFS only rule. They ruled that animals only get Barding and Neck body slots, unless they are animal companions and take a feet, or unless the item explicitly says it is made for animals.
<head desk>
So the reason nothing works for animals is PFS made the things that were supposed to make animals work stop working.
*goes of to see if muleback cords mention mules so I can use them on my gecko.*
Flite,
Putting armor in a bag of holding is something I have done on a number of occasions. Climbing, swimming, etc. Heck, I've put people in there for the same reasons. We once hit a hazard that only one person could safely cross. He carried people across the hazard in a bag of holding.
If you are going to post something as if it were a rule, please give your rationale that it is not a rule so we do not get confused by it. By saying that you "can't" do something you are indicating it is against the rules or that for some reason you cannot do it. That is not the same as "you can do this but it is probably not helpful".
- Gauss
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Since the whole point of this is to reduce your mount's encumbrance, and since encumbrance for the mount is largely an issue when I am riding it, there are really almost no circumstances where that would be useful. You are correct that I could put the mount's barding, and for that matter, it's saddle in a bag of holding, but it would not solve the problem of having the mount constantly encumbered when adventuring.
I allow, in my own games, MW Backpacks of Holding I-IV. It's just a Bag of Holding that's 75gp more expensive (second power on single slot, cheaper power +50%). I find they work well and make more sense than a big bag. :)
As to Dark Leaf bags of holding or haversacks...
An item made from darkleaf cloth weighs half as much as the same item made from leather, furs, or hides. Items not primarily constructed of leather, fur, or hide are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of darkleaf cloth.
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Other items 375gp/lb
Any item made of leather, furs or hides can be made of darkleaf, and gain the benefits. NOT just armor. So as long as your haversack or backpack is made of leather, then you can use darkleaf.
BACKPACK
Type Price Weight
Common 2 gp 2 lbs.
Masterwork 50 gp 4 lbs.
This leather knapsack has one large pocket that closes with a buckled strap and holds about 2 cubic feet of material. Some may have one or more smaller pockets on the sides.
MW Backpack of Darkleaf = 1,550gp, weighs 2 lbs.
Backpack of Darkleaf = 752gp, weighs 1 lb.Haversacks are described as backpacks, so they are leather as well.
Bags of holding are cloth, so by default, no darkleaf. Although I would allow it.
I thought magic items already counted as being of masterwork quality.
As far as making them from special materials there are no rules for doing so. RAW it can't be done but if you find a GM that lets you, all the power to you. Not exactly exciting or game-changing stuff there.
Special Materials:
Weapons and armor can be crafted using materials that possess innate special properties.
Yes, they do. But that has nothing to do with costs. The MW backpack is really misnamed, it's 2 lbs heavier so it's not the same as the regular backpack. So in this case, MW backpack is a name, not a classification (like MW sword is).
Now, as to the items of custom materials, you are flat out wrong on that one. You only quoted one line, and tha line says 'Weapons and armor can be crafted using materials that possess innate special properties'. Wonderful.
You can touch your nose with your left hand.
Does that statement say that only you can touch your nose with your left hand? Does it say you can't touch it with your right hand? No. It only says what you can do.
The proof of this is under the special materials themselves, where it talks about the effects on armor and weapons, and then also talks about other items, and gives the cost for items other than weapons and armor by pound. If you don't believe me, go check the special materials section.
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I thought magic items already counted as being of masterwork quality.
As far as making them from special materials there are no rules for doing so. RAW it can't be done but if you find a GM that lets you, all the power to you. Not exactly exciting or game-changing stuff there.
Special Materials:
Weapons and armor can be crafted using materials that possess innate special properties.
Read further, go read the special materials, where the say Weapons cost X, armor costs Y, other items cost Z.
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An item made from darkleaf cloth weighs half as much as the same item made from leather, furs, or hides. Items not primarily constructed of leather, fur, or hide are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of darkleaf cloth.
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Other items 375gp/lb
Any item made of leather, furs or hides can be made of darkleaf, and gain the benefits. NOT just armor. So as long as your haversack or backpack is made of leather, then you can use darkleaf.
BACKPACK
Type Price Weight
Common 2 gp 2 lbs.
Masterwork 50 gp 4 lbs.
This leather knapsack has one large pocket that closes with a buckled strap and holds about 2 cubic feet of material. Some may have one or more smaller pockets on the sides.MW Backpack of Darkleaf = 1,550gp, weighs 2 lbs.
Backpack of Darkleaf = 752gp, weighs 1 lb.Haversacks are described as backpacks, so they are leather as well.
Bags of holding are cloth, so by default, no darkleaf. Although I would allow it.
go look at the examples of mithral cookware. Darkleaf and Mithral prices are per pound of *finished* weight.
MW BP DL = 800 gp
BP DL = 377 gp
MW BP DL (size small) = 0.5 lb = 237
BP DL (size small) = 0.125 lb = negligable = 189 (items of negligable weight count as 1/2 lb.)
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Perhaps it's time to make a thread about this in the Society forums, and see if something like a Darkleaf Haversack would be considered a "custom item" by PFS standards.
The other interesting possibility would be a Cloak of Resistance made of Griffonmane (or whatever it's called). I believe the description specifically calls out making cloaks out of it.
go look at the examples of mithral cookware. Darkleaf and Mithral prices are per pound of *finished* weight.MW BP DL = 800 gp
BP DL = 377 gp
MW BP DL (size small) = 0.5 lb = 237
BP DL (size small) = 0.125 lb = negligable = 189 (items of negligable weight count as 1/2 lb.)
Yeah, that was a quick post, forgot it was finished weight and not starting weight.
A masterwork backpack probably has a bit of padding and a simple wooden frame in it.
probably, but my point was, it's different construction than a regular backpack. So just making a regular backpack from darkleaf does make it a masterwork item, but it doesn't make it a Masterwork Backpack(TM).
I was always under the impression that a Haversack could be made of Darkleaf Cloth, and that a small-sized one would weigh half as much as well. Aren't all small-sized items half the weight of medium ones?
Then why would my medium size guy not just buy a small sized haversack and use it as belt pouch?
4. Side question, why is there absolutely 0 gear to boost the carry capacity of your mount :(
There is:
Cart
Or, if you really need to haul a lot of loot:
Wagon
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A Haversack is never called out being medium. It's something that would be classified as adjustable for use by people of different sizes.
It is described as being leather so one could discuss with their GM the possibility of making one out of Dark Leaf, though getting 75# of extra carrying capacity would seem like it should be enough not to need to worry of the extra 2.5#, one could suppose that you might be tracking a lot of coin weight.
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Lets see:
For my character:
Mithral shirt armor
Darkwood shield
Darkleaf Weapon
Regular crossbow (thats going darkwood once I have enough money.)
Clothes (2 lbs) (may go dark leaf)
Spell Component pouches. (might go darkleaf)
1 Alchemical Weapon.
1 wand
I'm 5 lbs from taking penalties, on a skill based character.
With me, my gear, my saddle, barding, my mount is already medium encumbered, and is 30 lbs from heavy encumbered.
Actually, the means I have left for making things lighter are starting to get *ridiculously* expensive.
None of that is coin weight, by the way, coin is left at home or carried on the pack mule. Nor is any of that utilities. Bed roll, crafting kits, spell books et al. are on the pack mule (okay, pack gecko)
I just got my first level in alchemist. Every Alchemical weapon I craft costs 1 lb of weight. Assume I want Glow marker dye, ghast wretch, fire, acid, and frost, one of each is 5 lbs. Even if I get the haversack I'm going to fill it up pretty quickly.
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DM blake, Barding sitting on a wagon may as well be at home. Ditto armor. And wagons and stairs are bad enough, but I keep running into ladders. I ride geckos so that my transport can follow me into the adventure, and my pack gecko is less than half full, it's my wargecko that is running out of carry capacity.
Flite, what is your strength?
- Gauss
Ask your GM if you can get a mount that has the pack mule feat instead of the run feat.
That's what I do with mules and donkeys in my games. Mules use the horse stats, donkeys the pony stats but both exchange run for pack mule.
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Flite, what is your strength?
- Gauss
8, I'm an average strength for a gnome. (on the logic that the average non hero character has 10 in all his stats, + racial mins.)
Ask your GM if you can get a mount that has the pack mule feat instead of the run feat.
It's PFS, so I explicitly can't. Otherwise I would gladly trade in Improved initiative (which doesn't do anything for a mount) for pack mule.
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Oops. I take that last one back. there is at least a little wiggle room.
Handle Animal: Does training an animal using Handle Animal to be Combat Trained (pg 98 in the Core Rulebook) grant it Light Armor Proficiency?
No, using Handle Animal to train an animal, or mount, in this way does not grant it a free bonus feat. It is not unreasonable, however to assume that an animal specifically designed to be ridden (such as a horse or dog) could be purchased with Light Armor Proficiency as one of its feats (swapping out Endurance or Skill Focus respectively) for the same cost.
So I could swap Improved initiative (which I didn't know I actually had until just now, I thought I had skill focus climb) for light armor proficiency at least. Maybe for pack mule, but that would probably be table variation
FLite, I am trying to calculate some of this but I appear to have insufficient information.
Could you please list ALL of your gear and your mount's gear? We might be able to see something that you either don't need or could lighten up.
Note: I think some of this is a direct result of your choice of mounts. You are trying to get a mount that can climb walls and it's low strength is the price you are paying for it.
- Gauss
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Well, some of it is the direct result of my playing PFS, otherwise I could get my mount mulecords. :) My first night I tried to bring a pony, and the adventure started with "you go down a ladder."
Chain Shirt (Mithril) +1 6.25
DR 17 HP 30
Adventurers Outfit (starting) 2
Double bandoleer
Wrist Sheath 0.25
Wand Cure Light Wounds
Light Crossbow 2
10 bolts 10 1
Spell Component Pouch 2
Spell Component Pouch 2
Darkleaf Scorpion Whip 0.75
DR 10, HP 2
dagger 0.5
Light Quickdraw Darkwood Shield +1 1.5
DR 7, HP 17
Backpack 0.5
Glowing Marker Dye 1 1
Why two spell component pouches? Because if anything happens to one, I can be in deep trouble.
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My pack gecko
Harness 2
Exotic Pack Saddle 20
5 bolts 5 1
Pathfinder Kit 7.5
Jugglers Kit 10
Scorpion Whip 1.5
Weapon Cord
Grappling Bolt 0.5
Rope (50 ft) 10
Alchemists Kindness (2) 2
Alchemist Craft Kit 5
Caltrops (2) 4
Note that if I don't have the two geckos, I have to carry every thing on this list to (except the jugglers kit, which I don't care about) and my speed drops to 15 feet.