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Hi everyone! Thank you for looking at this post. I am curious about something.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/n-r/rage-proph et
Savage Seer: A rage prophet’s class level stacks with barbarian levels for determining the effect of his rage powers, oracle revelations, and his oracle’s curse. This does not grant additional abilities.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/paizo---b arbarian-archetypes/mad-dog
War Beast: At 1st level, a mad dog gains the service of an animal companion, using the barbarian's level as her effective druid level.
This ability replaces the rage powers gained at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level.
Will the levels in rage prophet stack with the levels in barbarian for determining the level of the character's animal companion?
The goal is to have the character at 12th level with barbarian 2/oracle 4/rage prophet 6, using the Boon Companion feat to have the animal companion (in this case a hyena) be effectively at 12th level as well. I'm hoping that this is the case... I acknowledge that I wouldn't get Ferocious Fetch or anything beyond that. In fact, as written the character wouldn't even get rage, so I'd have to rearrange the levels to avoid being the queen of bad character builds, but the point is whether or not the character's animal companion would level alongside her.
Note: I'd be taking Extra Rage Power (Moment of Clarity) as a feat to meet the requirements for the prestige class, unless I bumped it to four levels of barbarian.
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FAQ: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qt8
When do I count as having a class feature?
You have a class feature when your class description tells you you gain that class feature, generally based on your level in that class (and perhaps altered by factors, see below).
If you have an archetype or other rules element that replaces that class feature, you do not have that class feature. For example, if your archetype replaces a rogue's sneak attack, you no longer have the sneak attack class feature (whether a requirement is as general as "sneak attack" or as specific as "sneak attack +1d6," you do not qualify for it).
If you have an archetype or other rules element that replaces part of a scaling class feature, or delays when you get that class feature, you do not have that class feature until you actually gain that class feature.
Example: If you have a fighter archetype that replaces weapon training 1 (but not weapon training 2, 3, and 4), you don't gain the weapon training 2 ability until fighter level 9, which means you don't have the weapon training class ability at all until you reach fighter level 9. Anything with "weapon training" or "weapon training class feature" as a prerequisite is unavailable to you until level 9.
Example: If you have a cleric archetype that replaces channel energy at level 1 (but not later increments of channel energy), you don't gain the channel energy ability until cleric level 3, which means you don't have the channel energy class feature until you reach cleric level 3. Anything with "channel energy" or "channel energy class feature" as a prerequisite is unavailable to you until level 3.
Example: If you have a witch archetype that replaces your hex at level 1 (but not later hexes, major hexes, or grand hexes), you don't gain your first hex ability until witch level 2, which means you don't have the hex class feature until you reach witch level 2. Anything with "hex" or "hex class feature" as a prerequisite is unavailable to...
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Well okay, that makes enough sense. So I wouldn't be considered as having the Rage class ability until I reach fourth level, when the Mad Dog gets it. Coincidentally, my fourth level rage power would be Moment of Clarity, thus meeting the requirements for the prestige class at that level. Fair enough. :)
That still doesn't answer my question though. Will the levels in rage prophet stack with the levels in barbarian for determining the level of the character's animal companion?
EDIT: I re-read the way I worded my original question, and wanted to say that you did indeed answer it the way it was written, and that I thank you for that. I should have worded myself as I have in this post, rather than as I did in the original. ^^'
No, no, just because it replaces a rage power doesnt make it a rage power. Unless there is a line saying it is treated as such. The only time powers are treated like the power they replace is if they say they do or its mechanically the same thing ( like fighter archetypes and weapon training variants)
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The first citation was in the reply that was eaten by AdAware when I tried to post it.
Archetype: If an archetype replaces a class ability with a more specific version of that ability (or one that works similarly to the replaced ability), does the archetype's ability count as the original ability for the purpose of rules that improve the original ability?
It depends on how the archetype's ability is worded. If the archetype ability says it works like the standard ability, it counts as that ability. If the archetype's ability requires you to make a specific choice for the standard ability, it counts as that ability. Otherwise, the archetype ability doesn't count as the standard ability. (It doesn't matter if the archetype's ability name is different than the standard class ability it is replacing; it is the description and game mechanics of the archetype ability that matter.)
Example: The dragoon (fighter) archetype (Ultimate Combat) has an ability called "spear training," which requires the dragoon to select "spears" as his weapon training group, and refers to his weapon training bonus (even though this bonus follows a slightly different progression than standard weapon training). Therefore, this ability counts as weapon training for abilities that improve weapon training, such as gloves of dueling (Advanced Player's Guide), which increase the wearer's weapon training bonus.
Example: The archer (fighter) archetype gets several abilities (such as "expert archer") which replace weapon training and do not otherwise refer to the weapon training ability. Therefore, this ability does not count as weapon training for abilities that improve weapon training (such as gloves of dueling). This is the case even for the "expert archer," ability which has a bonus that improves every 4 fighter levels, exactly like weapon training.
—Pathfinder Design Team, 07/12/13
And another citation:
Rage Prophet: Does a rage prophet's savage seer ability allow him to stack his barbarian or oracle levels with his rage prophet levels to qualify for rage powers and mysteries?
No.
—Sean K Reynolds, 11/23/10
I think they cover what you are asking.
I don't think Flite's response makes sense, Mad Dog does give you Rage Powers, it just removes the 1st/3rd/5th/etc Rage Powers.
You have to wait longer, but you get Rage and Rage Power at 4th level, as you realized after Diego's post.
Unfortunately, even though the Companion replaces a whole bunch of Rage Powers, it itself is not technically considered one.
Thus, Rage Prophet would not scale the power of the Companion.
Personally, I don't see any problem with it doing that, and would be happy to allow that in a home game.
I would probably say that you aren't considered to have the Rage Power ability until you really gain it,
mostly relevant for purposes of Extra Rage Power qualification...
but you are probably out of luck if you want to scale your Mad Dog Companion in a RAW-compliant PFS game.
Note that if you take 4 levels in Cavalier to gain Expert Trainer (and 6 ranks of Ride), you qualify for a Feat "Horse Master" from Ultimate Combat, allowing you to use your entire character level to scale your Animal Companion... Although you need some other Companion Class to open up the whole Companion list.
You might just consider a Cleric with the Rage Sub-Domain or Anger Inquisition and Animal Domain for an animal companion, which achieves Rage+Companion+Full Casting without any hassle. The difference between Rage Sub-Domain and Anger Inquisition (besides the Inquisition's lack of Domain Spells, although you would still have the Animal Domains' spells) comes down to the details, especially as regard Domain Powers. IMHO, Rage Domain's 'cannot select Rage Power with level requirements' only applies to the bonus Powers it directly grants, it would be silly to say you are so limited if you then take actual Barb levels and gain Rage Powers from that, and there really isn't anything to distinguish that from Extra Rage Power Feat. It is debatable whether the Domain granting Rage Powers counts as having the Rage Power class ability to qualify for Extra Rage Power, so it might very well make sense to dip 2 levels in Barbarian (normal, not substituting the 2nd level Rage Power) in order to qualify for Extra Rage Power Feats if you want those.
If you're not worried about qualifying for the "Fetch" ability the War Beast gains, you could take the following feats instead:
Animal Ally
Your respect for nature is so great that you can form a deep and lasting friendship with an animal.
Prerequisites: Nature Soul, character level 4th, must not have an animal companion or mount that advances as an animal companion.
Benefit: You gain an animal companion as if you were a druid of your character level –3 from the following list: badger, bird, camel, cat (small), dire rat, dog, horse, pony, snake (viper), or wolf. If you later gain an animal companion through another source (such as the Animal domain, divine bond, hunter's bond, mount, or nature bond class features), the effective druid level granted by this feat stacks with that granted by other sources.
Boon Companion
Your bond with your animal companion or familiar is unusually close.
Prerequisites: Animal companion or familiar class feature.
Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were 4 levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit. If you lose or dismiss an animal companion or familiar that has received this benefit, you may apply this feat to the replacement creature.
Special: You may select this feat more than once. The effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a different animal companion or familiar.