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Can a Sohei use Rapid and Manyshot with Flurry of Blows?
It seems to be an enigma. The only other class to flurry with a bow is the Zen Archer and they cannot do what is stated above.
By default the Sohei can't either? Or because the Sohei must wait longer to get Flurry, it is acceptable?
What do you guys think? (Developer opinions highly valued :P)
Design Manager
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What Artanthos said. RAW there is nothing stopping the Sohei from Flurrying and using Rapid Shot and Many Shot, unlike the Zen Archer who specifically can't.
Of course, the Sohei also doesn't get to use his unarmed strike damage or a bunch of cool tricks like the Zen Archer, so you probably aren't actually coming out ahead on damage or anything.
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Design Manager
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Thanks guys!
Now I have heard it said that while RAW may allow the Sohei to perform this way, it may not be RAI.
What do you say to that?
That..... Could very well be true. The Sohei is from Ultimate Combat, probably Paizo's most infamous product for its terrible editing and vague definitions.
I believe there was also a thread once where JJ commented on how he did not believe that was the intent, but that was some time ago.As I stated previously though, I think the Sohei damage-wise is pretty comparative to the Zen Archer and lacks the utility and SAD focus, so allowing it to work RAW isn't breaking anything. It's not even the most effective use of the Sohei class (though it is really good).
I played a game recently with an elven Sohei (whom everyone else in the group thought was a Ranger for 3/4 of the campaign because of how she was played) and no one made any "OMG, WTF!!" comments. They didn't even notice she wasn't a Ranger soo.... For whatever that's worth.
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I am only wondering.
I would have to say that it is extremely effectively built though. The mobility of a sohei on horseback and the range of a bow make the sohei effectively impossible to hit, because doing so upsets the already challenging question of action economy among monsters vs. groups.
The damage is ver consistent, and while it may not be super high by comparison, the reliability of damage coupled with high defense and mobility makes this worth looking into.
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Design Manager
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I am only wondering.
I would have to say that it is extremely effectively built though. The mobility of a sohei on horseback and the range of a bow make the sohei effectively impossible to hit, because doing so upsets the already challenging question of action economy among monsters vs. groups.
The damage is ver consistent, and while it may not be super high by comparison, the reliability of damage coupled with high defense and mobility makes this worth looking into.
Sohei archers can be rough. Remember though, while he gets Mounted Combat feats and the ability to apply some of his ki powers to his mount, the class does not actually come with a progressing Mount class feature, so he either has to multi-class, lowering the effectiveness of his Flurry and possibly delaying important abilities, or he'll be riding a tender lump of horse-flesh just waiting to be grilled by the first AOE that happens along. The Mount may potentially have Improved Evasion if the Monk has it, but that doesn't mean he's got the same saves, and without additional hit die, half damage from an AOE will probably be more than enough.
When an archer is kiting you around laughing from a safe distance, either put up cover or spells to negate his attacks, or blow up the squishy thing underneath him to cut his movement down.
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Design Manager
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On an anecdotal note, a cavalier could do the same thing as the Sohei, adding a challenge bonuse of at least his level in damage to each arrow, and potentially taking nearly as many attacks by using Target of Opportunity with his Greater tactician ability. And the Cavalier's mount will have far more hp and better saves than a standard mount.
A gnome cavalier could add even more damage per arrow with Arcane Strike.
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The Mount may potentially have Improved Evasion if the Monk has it, but that doesn't mean he's got the same saves, and without additional hit die, half damage from an AOE will probably be more than enough.
The Sohie can grant his mount temporary hit point equal to half his level. With the Indomitable Mount feat, the mount can use the monks saving throws once per round.
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Design Manager
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The Mount may potentially have Improved Evasion if the Monk has it, but that doesn't mean he's got the same saves, and without additional hit die, half damage from an AOE will probably be more than enough.The Sohie can grant his mount temporary hit point equal to half his level. With the Indomitable Mount feat, the mount can use the monks saving throws once per round.
A potential of up to 10 whole temp hp isn't going to save the day. Indomitable Mount, aside from being a fairly obscure feat from a 4 year old splat book, takes an immediate action, so he can't use it in the same round he's spent a ki point, meaning he didn't take his extra attack, or he didn't give his mount temp hp. More likely, he's already spent a ki point on something and his mount is just stuck using its own sub-par saves.
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Design Manager
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I think the real trouble here is his mount. He took leadership, so he's got a "magic horse that casts spells."
It is all legit by RAW, but the mount lvls, casts spells, and is generally a super badass in it's own right.
Ooh, yeah, Leadership seriously mucks up the works. There's a reason that feat isn't allowed in organized play, or a surprisingly large number of home games (and most home games have a tendency to edit it something fierce).
Soooo....... Yeah, you probably have an indestructible mobile artillery unit to deal with now.
I recommend liches with monk levels who teleport up and grapple him off his horse.
A Sohei archer is Crow from that old movie Hawk the Slayer. That's nasty.