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Greetings, everyone.
Tzizimine's Eberron to Pathfinder Conversion
I would like to present my attempt at converting the sum total of the Eberron material published for 3.5 to the Pathfinder rules set. This conversion is my attempt to take everything 3.5 published specifically for Eberron, including, but not limited to, classes, feats, skills, magic, spells, magical items, psionic powers, creatures, creature templates and rule mechanics, and updating it to Pathfinder rules. The process has taken me the better part of a year and it is now ready to be reviewed and stress-tested. It has largely been developed in a vacuum and would benefit from input other than my own.
You might have seen links to this site floating around on other threads in the forum. While I appreciate and encourage others using my work in their games, the point of this thread is discuss not just Eberron conversions as a whole, but how I might make this one better.
Enjoy.
In converting the massive amount of material, I used the following order when processing material.
1. Redundancy: Remove anything already redundant with existing Pathfinder material.
2. Internally Inconsistent: Remove anything that internally inconsistent within the existing 3.5 rules.
3. Externally Inconsistent: Remove anything that went directly counter to Pathfinder precedent or format.
4. Convert: Convert anything that remain that could follow an existing Pathfinder precedent or format.
5. Repeat Steps 1-4 until all material is reviewed.
6. Review & Create: Review all of the material after it had been sorted into one of the previous four categories. Then create from scratch anything new that seemed necessary to fill in holes, mechanically or thematically speaking.
Given the amount of material, you can see why it took a year.
Whenever possible, the filtering of material followed these steps. After all is said and done, I would say about 25% of the material was redundant, about 5-10% was internally consistent within 3.5, another 10-15% was inconsistent with existing Pathfinder material, leaving 50-60% of the original material converted.
This conversion is geared around the 'crunch', or the mechanics, to make an Eberron campaign work in Pathfinder with as few mechanical holes or errors as possible.
If there was need for a feat, a spell, a creature, etc, etc... from Eberron material for 3.5, there is a place for it on the site: either converted and updated, or notated as removed and why.
What the site is NOT is a Wikipedia. I intentionally did not attempt this site to cover the width, breadth and depth of all that is going on the Eberron campaign world. I only added just enough 'fluff' to make certain parts of the crunch easy to understand.
Likewise, at the time of this post, the site is not for the creation of new stuff for Eberron. There are many great fan-based ideas around. They belong on their own author's page, not here.
There are some parts that I had to create to compensate for material that had to be removed or that I felt followed a precedent, following the mindset that if Eberron was original designed for Pathfinder, it would have X, Y and Z. If I start to come up with my own new material, I will make a separate section on the site later.
1. I do not own any 4th edition books, Eberron or otherwise.
2. I will not convert a RPG book I do not own.
3. I will not buy a RPG book that will not get used.
Ergo: In order for me to convert something for Eberron published in 4th edition, I would need to be convinced it is worth buying and using in Pathfinder, even if it is just fluff.
It is entirely possible that there may be some really good material in 4th edition Eberron books, but I will not go out a buy a copy on just a chance there might be something useful. So, if there is something from 4th edition that you think I should convert, please provide me specific examples.
This conversion is not an attempt to convert everything from 3.5 to Pathfinder. I only converted material that was either written specifically for Eberron or material from Eberron books that could easily be incorporated into Pathfinder without the need to reach into non-Eberron 3.5 material. Truth be told, there was a lot of stuff from 3.5 that doesn't need to be converted.
I did convert a few things that fell outside of this range, but at the request of the people in my gaming group, specifically for the continuation of a campaign from 3.5 to Pathfinder.
If you think there is something from 3.5 that is necessary for Eberron to function that I have overlooked, please let me know. By 'necessary', I mean that 50% or more of all possible Eberron campaigns would suffer, mechanically or thematically, for its loss.
Side note: I will not speak of Warlocks. The proper expression of my opinion of that class violates certain laws of physics as well as the policy concerning decent language on this forum. That is all.
Simple.
Look at the site. Read through the material. Use in your games. Analyze and dissect it. In short, stress-test it.
Then let me know what you find. What mistakes did I make? Where does my logic fall apart or become inconsistent? Is a monster's CR too high or too low? Is a magical item to expensive? And so on and so on. I am actively looking for others to put this site through it's trial-by-fire
You can help by posting here on this thread or emailing me directly. I am good about responding to emails promptly, even if it is just to say I got it and am looking at it, but don't have an answer yet.
I would ask that you please include the following:
1. A link to the part of the site that you're referring to (or multiple links if two or more relevant points are different pages).
2. An example, hypothetical or from actual gameplay, that highlights the issue.
3a. If it involves references from beyond the site, please cite them.
3b. If it involves math, please give me an example.
3c. If it involves something more nebulous or fuzzy, like game balance, please give me examples from each end of the extreme.
4. If you have a suggestion for a correction, please give me examples of how the correction might work.
5. If you are going to email me, please put "EB2PF" at the beginning of the subject line, so I can make sure it doesn't get in the wrong filter.
Original 3.5 Material
- Eberron Campaign Setting
- City of Streamream
- Dragons of Eberron
- Dragonmarked
- Explorer's Handbook
- Faiths of Eberron
- Five Nations
- Forge of War
- Magic of Eberron
- Player's Guide to Eberron
- Secrets of Sarlona
- Secrets of Xen'Drik
- Sharn: City of Towers
- Eyes of the Lich Queen
- Grasp of the Emerald Claw
- Shadows of the Last War
- Voyage of the Golden Dragon
- Whispers of the Vampire's Blade
- Monster Manual 1 (for beholders and mind flayers)
- Races of the Dragon (for Singer of Concordance)
- Dragon Magic (for Diamond Dragon)
- Complete Psionic (for Illumine Soul)
Pathfinder Material:
- Pathfinder Corebook
- Advanced Player's Guide
- Advanced Race Guide
- Bestiary 1-3
- Faction Guide
- Gamemastery Guide
- Ultimate Equipment
- Ultimate Magic
- Ultimate Combat
- Ultimate Campaign
Dreamscarred Press Material
- Psionics Unleashed
- Psionics Expanded
For clarification, I do not claim, in any manner, shape, form or context, that I own either the Eberron campaign world, the d20 v3.5 rules set, the Pathfinder rules set, the material presented by Dreamscarred Press or the Dungeons & Dragons 4th edition rules set, nor do I claim, in any manner, shape, form or context, to own the rights any material, be it text, images or likenesses presented therein. I am putting this content together under my understanding of the Community Use Open Game License for Pathfinder and strongly encourage anyone that sees a problem, breach of ownership or other issue to contact me directly at tzizimine@gmail.com concerning any needed alteration or removal. I would also like to personally give thanks to Keith Baker, the original author of the Eberron campaign setting, for providing such a rich and colorful world and to all of the people at Paizo and Dreamscarred Press for providing a rules system that I have enjoyed using.
I would like to thank the following people in their support of this effort.
My girlfiend, Amanda C., for being patient as I chipped away this for months on end.
My gaming group (by character names): Slythe, Oberon, Tower (aka devil.in.mexico13), Shudor, Dorn and Alred, for giving the encouragement to tackle a project this big.
The people that found my work without being prompted: Giovanni M., DragonBlood472, John Robey, Rynjin, Der Origami Mann, Erdath, Doctor Necrotic, Nolcalnerd, The Mighty Biter, Tonio A.
Happy Gaming,
Dan "Tzizimine" Clarke
tzizimine@gmail.com
Tzizimine's Eberron to Pathfinder Conversion
Added to Favourite, no regrets. Although I'm partial to importing the Warforged pretty much unchanged from 3.5 into PF, I just love the PrC conversions, just what I needed.
The only thing I mislike about Tzizimine's Warforged is that due to the specific wording of its Composite Plating (or lack thereof, rather) it can no longer be enhanced straight-up and the warforged must buy armours just like everybody else. It's just a big bummers for me since that was perhaps THE feature I liked about the race. Otherwise it's a great conversion that I can wrap my paws around.
ShadowcatX, thanks. I tried to mirror the shifters after the Suli (another race) and not the barbarian class. To that end, like the Suli, there is an incremental feat for shifting by total number of rounds.
Kittenological, agreed... the War forged required a lot of changing, even with the options in the Advanced Race Guide, but on the flip side they have the armor & robe slot back, like everyone else.
I would recommend looking at the shifter feats. Shifters (in 3.5) that did not pursue their werebeast heritage did not improve the shifting as fast as those that did. This was translated in that almost every shifter feat, in addition to what the feat did, added 1 round to the shifting.
Although, to be fair, the shifter has not gotten any playtest time, where the warforged has at least a little. If it seems that shifters, without shifting, are unpowered, a constant flat bonus could be reassessed. Let me know if you have an game session specifics.
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Tzizimine, this is the Mighty Biter, I'm Eben around here-abouts. :)
Just wanted to publicly say I appreciate your work on this... it's good to see Eberron get some serious love.
I tend to agree with ShadowcatX's preference for the barbarian's rage rounds style of shifting. If someone plays one in a game of mine, I'll let you know how whatever we decide to go with plays out.
This is on that same subject but not really pertinent to your converion (as you were sticking pretty closely to Eberron's treatment of shifters), but despite my deep love of a lycan-based pc race, there are a few problems i've always had of them.
I don't get wy they have a -2 to Charisma. I get that other races don't appreciate or "get" them, but that could more easily be reflected in a racial drawback in the form of a -2 to diplomacy skills when dealing with "civilized" races. I realize it's probably due to lycanthropes getting a -2 to Charisma, but when I look at animals, they all have a lowered Int and a mostly normal charisma.. a -2 to INT seems a more appropriate mental penalty for shifters. Especially given their general dislike and struggle to function well in civilized societies. I woudl think a rustic and rugged people would have less focus on academic training and intelligence in general.
But that's neither here nor there.
This is a huge and great conversion, very well done.
Thanks for the mention in Special Thanks, much appreciated.
Tzizimine, this is the Mighty Biter, I'm Eben around here-abouts. :)
Just wanted to publicly say I appreciate your work on this... it's good to see Eberron get some serious love.
I tend to agree with ShadowcatX's preference for the barbarian's rage rounds style of shifting. If someone plays one in a game of mine, I'll let you know how whatever we decide to go with plays out.
This is on that same subject but not really pertinent to your converion (as you were sticking pretty closely to Eberron's treatment of shifters), but despite my deep love of a lycan-based pc race, there are a few problems i've always had of them.
I don't get wy they have a -2 to Charisma. I get that other races don't appreciate or "get" them, but that could more easily be reflected in a racial drawback in the form of a -2 to diplomacy skills when dealing with "civilized" races. I realize it's probably due to lycanthropes getting a -2 to Charisma, but when I look at animals, they all have a lowered Int and a mostly normal charisma.. a -2 to INT seems a more appropriate mental penalty for shifters. Especially given their general dislike and struggle to function well in civilized societies. I woudl think a rustic and rugged people would have less focus on academic training and intelligence in general.
But that's neither here nor there.
Eben, good to see the other alias.
Concerning the shifter and Charisma, the original write up had a +2 to Dex, -2 to Int and -2 to Chr. Between Intelligence and Charisma, I decided to keep the penalty to Charisma for the same reason that tieflings would have the penalty. It's both a reflection of others treat them given their race's reputation (deserved or otherwise) but also a matter of being socially defensive. Shifters among other shifters would be just as social and capable of leadership as a tiefling among other tieflings, but when faced with more populated races, both examples are reminded of _what_ they are and not _who_ they are.
As for the Intelligence, maybe it's just me, but I remember more than a few references in the material of shifters being seen as dumb animal-people and I thought it was only fair to make them just as capable of learning as any other race. Maybe not specifically academics and Knowledge skills, but high Intelligence gets more skill ranks to cover more skills (Acrobatics, Climb, Knowledge (nature), Perception, Stealth, Survival, Swim, etc) evenly.
This is a huge and great conversion, very well done.
Thanks for the mention in Special Thanks, much appreciated.
No problem
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Hot diggity daffodil! Everything about Pathfinder just got more awesome. Wasn't sure it could be done
Cheers!
Nice job, my only complaint is that Warforged are now wearing armour, which they previously couldn't. Instead they could upgrade their plating and have it enchanted, which felt much more thematic to me. I confess I don't like the plating-as-natural-armour thing.
dot
Shifter stuff.Eben, good to see the other alias.
Concerning the shifter and Charisma, the original write up had a +2 to Dex, -2 to Int and -2 to Chr. Between Intelligence and Charisma, I decided to keep the penalty to Charisma for the same reason that tieflings would have the penalty. It's both a reflection of others treat them given their race's reputation (deserved or otherwise) but also a matter of being socially defensive. Shifters among other shifters would be just as social and capable of leadership as a tiefling among other tieflings, but when faced with more populated races, both examples are reminded of _what_ they are and not _who_ they are.
As for the...
Yep. It wasn't an issue I have with your conversion. Just my thoughts on the initial realizing of the race in the Eberron Campaign Setting. Just thought I'd toss the idea out there.
There's a copy and paste error in the iron defender under the telepathic link ability. It refers to the iron defender as a dedicated wright.
ShadowcatX,
Thanks for catching that.
I am also reviewing the progression of shifting uses vs. time, so there may be an update there later this week as well.
Dan
There's a copy and paste error in the iron defender under the telepathic link ability. It refers to the iron defender as a dedicated wright.ShadowcatX,
Thanks for catching that.
I am also reviewing the progression of shifting uses vs. time, so there may be an update there later this week as well.
Dan
Ok, just wanting to have someone double check the numbers here. For the math, I am assuming that the shifter character is built specifically around being as much of a shifter as it can possibly be.
- Max starting Con would 18, with a +2 Con for the right shifter trait, would be Con: 20, so +5 mod.
- All attribute points to Con.
- Getting to Weretouched master as soon as possible.
- No magical items involved.
- Conversion Options: No Extra Shifting feats, although that is possible, Gets Incremental Shifting as soon as possible.
3.5 Version:
1st level
Shifter Feats: 1
Uses: 1
Time per use: 3 +5 Con mod +1 feat = 9 rounds
Total: 9 rounds
9th level:
Shifter Feats: 6
Uses: 4
Time per use: 3 +6 Con mod +6 = 15 rounds
Total: 60 rounds
18th level:
Shifter Feats: 9
Uses: 5
Time per use: 3 +7 Con mod +9 = 19 rounds
Total: 95 rounds
Conversion Version:
1st level
Shifter Feats: 1
Uses: 1
Time per use: 1 level + 1 = 2 rounds
Takes Incremental Shifting at 3rd level
9th level
Shifter Feats: 7
Uses: Incremental
Total: 9 + 7 = 16 rounds
18th level
Shifter Feats: 11
Uses: Incremental
Total: 18 + 11 = 29 rounds
Conclusion:
1st: 9 rounds (3.5) vs. 2 rounds (Conversion)
9th: 60 rounds (3.5) vs. 16 rounds (Conversion)
18th: 95 rounds (3.5) vs. 29 rounds (Conversion)
If that math is right, then I definitely see the difference in usefulness, and thus the Shifter needs some significant adjustment. But it does raise another question.
Assuming that encounters are not chained together back-to-back (what my group calls SWAT teaming), how many rounds is your average encounter?
My group is usually between 3-6 rounds. I ask because without the introduction of the Incremental Shifting feat, something I introduced in the conversion, any use of shifting that lasts longer than the encounter results in a lot of wasted rounds of shifting and thus makes it hard to re-scale.
Side note: This does not directly concerns about the overall RP value of the shifter, which is a review separate from the shifting ability.
Thoughts?
- Dan
Absolutely fantastic. A wondrous resource. Well done Dan!!!
I don't believe the temporary increase in constitution from shifting would actually increase the duration that you shift, would it? (I know it wouldn't in Pathfinder, but I haven't searched the 3.5 part of my brain for information that specific in a long time.) Also, your number of feats are slightly off, normal shifter should only have 5 feats by 9th level, right? (Or is that a bonus shifter feat? If so, then the 18th level is missing a bonus shifter feat.)Ok, just wanting to have someone double check the numbers here. For the math, I am assuming that the shifter character is built specifically around being as much of a shifter as it can possibly be.
Shifter Math
Shifts do use the new Con mod if their shifter trait improves Con (ECB, pg. 19). Normally, at 9th level in 3.5, there would be 4 feats (1,3,6 and 9th) and at 18th, there would be 7 (1,3,6,9,12,15 and 18). The Weretouched Master gives 2 bonus feats, for totals 6 and 9 respectively.
I am leaning toward the straight doubling (2 rnds / level) and would still encourage those that regularly use shifting in combat to take Incremental shifting for round-efficiency.
As for the RP cost of shifting, that in turn would be reviewed once the actual shifting rules have been better tested. It is likely that the RP cost of shifting would come down some and constant flat bonus somewhere else would raise the RP total back. I should have more later this week when I crunch some more numbers.
Thanks for the catch on the BAB. It's been corrected.
Why dont you make shifting duration work like a barbarian rage?
ShadowcatX beat me to this, but yes, there is the Incremental Shifting feat detailed to make it work that way. Shifting is modeled after the Elemental Assault ability of the Suli (race vs. race), not the barbarian rage or bard performance (race vs. class) features.
Awesome work dude, just awesome.
I'm suffering an itch to start an Eberron-PF campaing and then I've stumbled over this thread, so I've scrathed the bothersome itch, and started the preparations for that campaing. Now I'm a happy DM ;)
Before I'll make some grammar nazi angry, I'm not a native speaker, so I ask everyone to forgive me for my poor wording.
Keep the good job!
Cheers, from Brazil.
Oh damn my flawed English,I can't be ironic...
As a dumb guy, I will try my best to write this in a manner that not offend your enlightened eyes.
Concerning my financial situation, well I'm not a "filhinho de papai", far from that, I had for a time some support when I was into competition, but this year I've chosen to focus in my studies, so things aren't easy as you may imagine, but this is not the place to talk about this stuff.
I haven't any qualms about reading, thank's to roleplaying games. I try to use the english terms when we play, so "Eu ataco o Warforged" it's no uncommon. Yeah, that's probably sound freakish aberrant for you, my apologies.
I found fascinating that you run/roleplay your games in English, I supose that is a very enjoyable way to keep your language skill sharp.
I really appreciate the hard work you have put into this project, tzizimine. But, you already know I'm a fan of this project. Stat wise, I don't have too much to really pick apart. As for feedback, once I have the chance to play an Eberron game (or if players like, allow Eberron based content), I could give a more in depth critique of how things worked. Granted, I've never payed too much thought into the mechanics (despite playing 3rd edition D&D almost as long as everyone else.)
Also, just a slight pet peeve for ease of navigation. While everything removed/altered is in one place, I'd like it if other pages could navigate to the page to source something you have changed or removed, for someone who wants to use <insert random item here> in their games. But, that's more so an organization issue.
First: You are my favorite. Your site is so very much what I was wishing I did. Really awesome. Really, really, awesome. It-made-my-day kind of awesome.
Second: I hit upon the idea of altering Sarlona's flavor much heavier into the eastern flavor, and started comparing weapons and armor. In the Secrets of Sarlona, they have a weapon called the 'spinning sword' which you did not omit from your site. By description (but not by the statistics) it matches the 'Urumi' from page 40 of the Ultimate equipment handbook (page 134 of the Ultimate Combat book). Apparently, its also in the Inner Sea World guide as well, but I don't know where.
I wasn't sure if this was intentional or not.
Personally, I dislike the idea of a character able to dual wielding two reach weapons, with whips being a very special case. But since I love everything else you've done on the site, it might be time to reevaluate that thought.
Again, you have done something so totally awesome. Thank you for all your hard work.
tzizimine, my sincere apologies for any incovenience caused by my unproper words or snarky commentaries,if necessary, I won't mind erase them.They weren't produtive to the discussion at hand. Besides that, I really think that youdid an awesome job here, and you deserve to be praised.
I would like an update to your page, with the Shifter modifications, if possible, your site is a invaluable resource for my upcomming campaing, and I think most people here agree with me.
Again, sorry for derailing the topic.
Cheers
Oh-ho, this looks interesting! Marking the thread to come back later. Thanks!
tzizimine, my sincere apologies for any incovenience caused by my unproper words or snarky commentaries,if necessary, I won't mind erase them.They weren't produtive to the discussion at hand. Besides that, I really think that youdid an awesome job here, and you deserve to be praised.
I would like an update to your page, with the Shifter modifications, if possible, your site is a invaluable resource for my upcomming campaing, and I think most people here agree with me.
Again, sorry for derailing the topic.Cheers
Simbaa,
Don't worry about it. Water under the bridge.
I am taking ShadowcatX's recommendation and reviewing the shifter rounds vs. times per day. I should have that updated in a few days with the new info.
First: You are my favorite. Your site is so very much what I was wishing I did. Really awesome. Really, really, awesome. It-made-my-day kind of awesome.
Second: I hit upon the idea of altering Sarlona's flavor much heavier into the eastern flavor, and started comparing weapons and armor. In the Secrets of Sarlona, they have a weapon called the 'spinning sword' which you did not omit from your site. By description (but not by the statistics) it matches the 'Urumi' from page 40 of the Ultimate equipment handbook (page 134 of the Ultimate Combat book). Apparently, its also in the Inner Sea World guide as well, but I don't know where.
I wasn't sure if this was intentional or not.
Personally, I dislike the idea of a character able to dual wielding two reach weapons, with whips being a very special case. But since I love everything else you've done on the site, it might be time to reevaluate that thought.
Again, you have done something so totally awesome. Thank you for all your hard work.
Gator,
Thanks for the compliment.
I agree that Sarlona should have a very eastern feel. I always equated Reidra to ancient China and Adar as similar to Tibet. As for the Urumi, I'll look into it. Unfortunately, the source material did not have a picture, so I thought it was similar to the extendable sword from Ivy in Soul Caliber. I have never had a problem dual-wielding reach weapons, mostly because my group doesn't use dual-wielding a lot. I will take a closer look for you.
- Dan
I love what you did with planar shepherd by the way, it is actually playable now. (As in, I would let someone play it, even if they didn't have a gun to my head, not as in it was mechanically bad before.)
Yeah thank god for Planar Wild Shape. Although, has the feat been FAQ'd for clarity at all? Because from what I can see it doesn't actually give you anything other than looking pretty and that +2 bonus to confirm critical. That and the darkvision.
This is due to the specific wording of wild shape and beast shape so you don't gain anything that's not specified on either the spell (darkvision) or the feat (the critical confirmation bonus).
The only info I could find on this issue was a short discussion on it 2 years ago...
Animal form only? Then I need to apologize to my GM for my mountain druid turning into a celestial stone giant last session.
BTW, let me know what you think of the Vadalis Beastkeeper prestige class.
BTW, let me know what you think of the Vadalis Beastkeeper prestige class.Funny you should ask, I was debating commenting on it earlier. I think it is incredibly odd, and probably too weak. Requiring 2nd level casting, from a PRC you can get into at 5th level really makes you want to be a full caster, but then it only advances half your caster level, so you really don't want to be a full caster. Mechanically, it probably isn't worth it for anyone but maybe a ranger, and honestly probably not even then.
Mechanically its highlights are the full base attack bonus, advancement to spellcasting, the advancement of your companion, and magebred companion.
Its weaknesses are that it doesn't advance spellcasting enough for any serious spellcaster to want it, yet seems to be geared primarily towards spellcasters, especially with the 2nd level spells requirement.
I think I'd drop the spellcasting requirement first off, and then give an option similar to the War Mind PRC where the prestige class can either advance casting (maybe 7/10?) or grant its own minor casting. That'll make it friendlier I think. Also, I'd give it back the magebred transformation but I just really like that ability.
** spoiler omitted **
My big concerning was balancing all of that reduced potential vs the capstone ability at level 10. Thoughts?