Need help with a miserly munchkin


Advice

101 to 114 of 114 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>

Relixander wrote:

Don' forget the paperwork!

Let himtrack everything down to the hour when crafting. Ahhh. Nm he's probably an accountant and would enjoy it...

My accountant is a lich.

Liberty's Edge

Just tell him that you have no desire to run a game of "Merchants and Markups"

Ooh Ooh can I play, lets pretend we are in tijuana trying to barter a sweet deal on blankets and chicklets


Any update on what happened?

Grand Lodge

well nothing yet, I don't see him until our next session in a couple of weeks.

Scarab Sages

Ilja wrote:

Relixander:

If a DM disagreed with my gaming style and did something like that, it'd feel kind of like a passive aggressive way. I know I'd never do it that way to a player and I don't think any of my players would appreciate it.

That kind of nit-picking I think is far worse than right out telling.

Yep, but when "telling" fails, turn about is fair play.

Honestly it was more of a jab then good advice.

However, I have dealt with players that have a goal of breaking the game, via optimization, economy, intentional derailing, etc. Sometimes they simply do not get the point until you break their "fun", I.e realize that they contribute to the fun, not selfishly have fun at the expense of others.

The OP has plenty of sound advice to follow on these boards. I truly should not have to repeat the idea of "talking to the players" as the first course of action... but.

Remember the game is a cooperative effort to have fun, not an adversarial relationship trying to destroy each other's fun. The first and best course of action in every situation is to have a discussion among the involved parties, hopefully coming to a resolution that is acceptable by everyone.

If that fails, go back to the Fiend Folio, reintroduce the Aleax as the manifestation of the GMs anger!


I Think, as suggested above, that the crafting and spelling problem is a non problem. And you can be a great GM is you ude it as a spring board for the story. Think of a way his crafting and his friends spelling can get Them involved in the next part og the story. There is somthing with syncronizing expectations but when the game is running in game things is best adresses in game. And i personally love when my players take some i intiative and not just sit in the tavan and wait for the next Quest. So make a story out of what is really an oppotunity.
And the boar thing can pehaps be dealt with in a similar way?
Edit: still o the phone.


Cap. Darling wrote:

I Think, as suggested above, that the crafting and spelling problem is a non problem. And you can be a great GM is you ude it as a spring board for the story. Think of a way his crafting and his friends spelling can get Them involved in the next part og the story. There is somthing with syncronizing expectations but when the game is running in game things is best adresses in game. And i personally love when my players take some i intiative and not just sit in the tavan and wait for the next Quest. So make a story out of what is really an oppotunity.

And the boar thing can pehaps be dealt with in a similar way?
Edit: still o the phone.

Selling not spelling! Spelling is my problem:(

The Exchange

I think it's important to remember that each player has fun in a different way. This guy seems to be having fun with the grinding concept, so if you just blow it up completely, that would be bad.

I would think that the best thing is to have that conversation out of game. Tell him specifically that you can tell he likes that part of the game, and you want to work with him so he can use that as a pay off for the character he's developed.

He should meet you half way and agree that what he does will contribute to the story and experiences of the campaign, good or bad. Why is there a wizard who likes to go out in his spare time and fight wild animals? Would he like to take a bit of a side adventure to Magnimar from time to time to stock up on supplies for crafting? Maybe he comes back from that trip with some nice gossip that might further the campaign.

Since he can't sell all the stuff in Sandpoint, where does he want to store it?

Maybe you could have a fun little side adventure -- thieves have stolen his stash while they were away at Thistletop. Now they have to track them down. A compact with the thieves guild to supply them with magic items in exchange for information.

You can turn this guy's online gaming experience into a love of PnP that'll ruin MMOs for him in the future. Which is what playing tabletop RPGs should do. :)


Just be aware of crafting time. I don't think 100gp(10% of 1000) per day of downtime is really gamebreaking. I haven't started playing Rise of the Runelords yet, but if the gets 3 days beetween the adventures he is just 300gp before the rest of the party.
If he used the trait and his two feats to increase his saves this would be make him much more efficient, than a few extra coins. If he bought flat boni with his traits getting the same through extra cash will take a long time. It will also grow potentially more expensive as he levels and probably be harder to keep up since Item prices are squared boni.
Just be aware not to tell him about Blood Money/Fabricate Shenanigans.

However I may be biased(and an evil munchkin), since I planned on making an optimized Crafter wizard for our Rise of the Runelords campaign.(I normally prefer Barbarians and Paladins.)
I have to admit I took the same trait and Hedge Magician(5% discount when crafting) and the Dwarven favored class bonus, since I wanted to be optimzed for crafting.

About hunting boars: Tell him it might be dangerous, since there have been sightings of XY(include some creature from the encounter list) and other menacing creatures a few days ago. If he still wants to go for bars you can roll the random encounter table.
ALSO DOES HE HAVE SURVIVAL/KNOWLEDGE(NATURE)? If no, how is he going to find himself some boars, without being able to track them/knowing where to find such animals?


Sorry in advance about the length, I sure hope the player or gm gets a chance to see this...

I did EXACTLY this for the first book or two of ROTRL...:
It worked pretty great for me because I was crafting items for my party, not to sell them... I think the trait he's talking about is 'favored son of sandpoint, where amieko or someone in town sells his magic items at a 10% markup... At the end of the day you're buying 1000gp of materials, fast crafting 2000gp worth of progress 8 hours a night in the precious few nights that you're able to get in 8 hours of uninterrupted crafting which is hardly ever. She sells the 2000gp item at half price (breaks my versimilitude but its very tough to convince any gm to sell your BRAND NEW unused item as anything other than half price used, so we're back to 1000gp+10%... you made 100gp for 8 hours of effort. Nuanced handling of the way you interpret fast crafting, tack on a hedge magicians apprentice trait, take some care in where you decide to set up shop and you could make 1000gp of progress in about 3 hours... My rundown of how this worked at our table isnt hard to find in these threads... I was using secure shelter for my safe crafting environment but that's widely regarded as fiat.... There is some joy to be had once you really crank up the crafting with private planes with 2x Time... Now you're getting in 1000gp of crafting with only 90 minutes of real world time passing... Which is pretty sweet. You can really, shall we say, focus entirely on the effort...

THAT BEING SAID...:

Any way you slice even with the most kind and generous gm in the world, 100gp of profit for 1.5-8 hours worth of work didnt end up being worth it for me in the grand scheme of things. Our party had been together only 18 days by the time we got to Magnimar. I didnt craft for profit but if he plans on it, all that effort for 1800gp would seem like ice skating uphill.

To the GM who wants to stop it and the player who wants to try it:
I'm still one of the biggest supporters of 'let him do it'... and if he reads these threads the tricks he's planning probably are a page right out of my forum posts. Its not game breaking and he'll learn its more trouble than its worth. He'll learn to hate it especially if its ROTRL that you're running. Theres not much downtime in that path at all.

I've personally paved the road he plans to walk and if he's still keeping track on these forums I can say that even if he totally gets his way and you're really nice about everything, the rewards are still massively not worth the effort. But if he still wants to do it, nobody would say 'let it happen' louder than I, and honestly allowing him to do it might be the fastest and least self-damning way to stop it from happening. Once he sees the poor payoff, he'll probably beg you to let him change it to something else.

My gm allowed me to craft pretty much every single day of ROTRL, and even after I got a chance to rewrite my character and get rid of crafting, I've kept a character diary of our progress. We're just starting book 5 and all told we've been on the road 90 days... If I had kept at it... or rather if your player sticks to his guns about doing it and you're nice to him and let him craft EVERY NIGHT, he stands to make about 9000gp by level 13 over the course of 4 books. Game breaking it isnt. And if he finds that out he'll probably do what I did and say nah.... lets try something else. Theres no reason not to let him do this, but if you want him to change his mind my best advice is to show him this post. I was there. I did it already. As good as it can possibly get It still blows and isnt worth the trouble.

If he JUST used it to craft party gear like I did, he'd increase the WBL of the party by approximately 45000-90000 (500-1000gp x 90 days) by the start of book 5 which still aint sayin much. An extra 22k magic item for each party member by level 13. It was only after travelling down that road myself that I was able to see that it was not worth the effort and as a GM I wouldnt dream of stopping someone from doing it if they're dead set on it.

By the same token though, as a gm who cares about his players I'd want to make sure the guy who was planning on doing this realized he's blowing 2 traits and a feat on the POSSIBILITY of having an extra 22k magic item by the time he's level 13 and see if he's still enthusiastic about the idea.


TLDR: There's no reason not to allow him to do it because in my VERY EXPERIENCED opinion from having actually and dedicatedly done precisely what he's thinking of doing: as good as it can possibly get, it still blows and isnt worth the trouble, and stopping him might be as easy as showing him what happens when it works out as good as it possibly can (see above lengthy post) or just letting him find out the hard way [by letting him do what he's asking to do] how bad it sucks and isnt worth it.


Vincent Takeda wrote:

Sorry in advance about the length, I sure hope the player or gm gets a chance to see this...

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

[SPOILER=To the GM who wants to stop it and the player who wants to try...

Yeah I thought so too, just crafting gear will increase the WBL more. With Vallet Familiar + Dwarven Favored class bonus would increase the profit to

300gp/day, but the impact on WBL from dircetly crafting equipment will still be MUCH higher.
I also took this combination primarily for versatility. I don't wanna end up lacking a mere 200gp for an item and having to wait till the next advebnture.

Grand Lodge

Thanks Vincent!


Happy to help. Cant wait to hear how it turns out!

101 to 114 of 114 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Need help with a miserly munchkin All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.