Splash damage on target that is hit


Rules Questions


http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateEquipment/gear/alchemicalWeapons .html#_acid-flask

Quote:
You can throw a flask of acid as a splash weapon. Treat this attack as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet. A direct hit deals 1d6 points of acid damage. Every creature within 5 feet of the point where the acid hits takes 1 point of acid damage from the splash.

So if I hit someone with a flask they take 1d6 damage and 1 splash damage since they are within 5 feet of the point where the acid hits?

Does this work in the same way for all splash weapons?


I'm reasonably sure you're not meant to apply both direct hit damage and splash damage to the same target. I'll see if I can drag up the ruling.


Ah, here it is.

PFSRD wrote:
A splash weapon is a ranged weapon that breaks on impact, splashing or scattering its contents over its target and nearby creatures or objects. To attack with a splash weapon, make a ranged touch attack against the target. Thrown splash weapons require no weapon proficiency, so you don't take the –4 nonproficiency penalty. A hit deals direct hit damage to the target, and splash damage to all creatures within 5 feet of the target. If the target is Large or larger, you choose one of its squares and the splash damage affects creatures within 5 feet of that square. Splash weapons cannot deal precision-based damage (such as the damage from the rogue's sneak attack class feature).


Well

Quote:
Every creature within 5 feet of the point where the acid hits takes 1 point of acid damage from the splash.
Quote:
A hit deals direct hit damage to the target, and splash damage to all creatures within 5 feet of the target.

I guess that means that the target is also in the area?


It could be read either way, I guess?

Personally I would not allow both splash damage and direct damage to the target, since the direct damage IS essentially splash damage - the target just gets more of it since the splash weapon impacts on him.

I did a few forum searches and I couldn't find anything conclusive on the topic, but maybe one of the more veteran Rules Questions guys can step in here and clear this up for us.


No, go look at alchemist bombs, which are splash weapons. The rules wouldn't make sense if the direct target took splash damage.

Scarab Sages

Direct Damage from the splash weapon and Splash Damage are considered two seperate things that affects the area at the same time, but does not affect the target twice. If a creature was hit with an Insomnia Powder from the Dungeouneer's Handbook, do they have to make two saves, one for the direct hit, and one for the splash? Would an Alchemist with 100 INT toss an alchemist fire to do 1d6+45 to the target, then an additional 46 to the same target because of the splash? I believe the designers try to avoid situations like that.

Shadow Lodge

Think of it like throwing a water balloon at someone. The target takes the brunt of it and people nearby would get splashed a little. The water wouldn't u-turn in mid splash and hit the target again would it? The target already takes more damage than the splash victims do, why would you compound that?


So the text with acid flask is wrong?
Or is it an exception?


Rikkan wrote:

So the text with acid flask is wrong?

Or is it an exception?

I can see the confusion but I disagree with your interpretation. In both cases I read an implied "other" in the statement.

Acid flask wrote:
You can throw a flask of acid as a splash weapon. Treat this attack as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet. A direct hit deals 1d6 points of acid damage. Every [other] creature within 5 feet of the point where the acid hits takes 1 point of acid damage from the splash.
Throw splash weapon wrote:
To attack with a splash weapon, make a ranged touch attack against the target. Thrown splash weapons require no weapon proficiency, so you don't take the –4 nonproficiency penalty. A hit deals direct hit damage to the target, and splash damage to all [other] creatures within 5 feet of the target.

Shadow Lodge

Splash damage is the minimum damage possible, so the splash and weapon damage just overlap and don't stack. I think of it this way because otherwise you get alchemists broken beyond the point of recovery.


It's unclear.

A couple general-ish rules would be that, unless specifically stated otherwise, a creature is not affected more than once by a single effect. Also, the 1d6 direct and 1 splash don't stack from a single effect.

The target doesn't take 1d6 +1 for the same reason that a large creature in the area of a fireball doesn't take damage 4 times.

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