Goblin Squad Member
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Only 3 seconds are needed to loot a corpse, no time at all really.That's three seconds to open the corpse. There's still the time you spend browsing.
Looting your corpse is a three-second action that's interrupted by any damage against the would-be looter (both the three-second timer and the act of browsing through your surviving inventory can be interrupted).
Take all and sort later.
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Goblin Squad Member
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And why can't we just kill the driver, hop on the wagon and ride off into the sunset? Maybe wagons will have a 100% loot in that case.... That is unless you pay the toll for using my road.....Keep in mind that the 75% is only what is being carried on the victims' persons, which is probably not all that much - the real loot is in the caravans, which I'm guessing will not be so generous in their payout and/or a lot more difficult to loot effectively.
And...I think you just justified the "Death before Tribute!" crowd...all SADs could be viewed as a toll, and tolls are a blatant violation of the 3rd River Freedom.
Specifically: Walk Any Road, Float Any River - This freedom blocks prevents of the river kingdoms from blocking travel over land and water, including charging tolls for passage.
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Goblin Squad Member
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And why can't we just kill the driver, hop on the wagon and ride off into the sunset? Maybe wagons will have a 100% loot in that case.... That is unless you pay the toll for using my road.....Keep in mind that the 75% is only what is being carried on the victims' persons, which is probably not all that much - the real loot is in the caravans, which I'm guessing will not be so generous in their payout and/or a lot more difficult to loot effectively.
And...I think you just justified the "Death before Tribute!" crowd...all SADs could be viewed as a toll, and tolls are a blatant violation of the 3rd River Freedom.
Specifically: Walk Any Road, Float Any River - This freedom blocks prevents of the river kingdoms from blocking travel over land and water, including charging tolls for passage.
Its not a toll, its protection money.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Which means most bandits will SAD at 50% or more, which is harsher than I imagined. Plus, you die, the bandit loots what he wants, deletes what he doesn't. I can't see a single way to avoid that. Like I said, my off the cuff response is that 75% is too much, but I'll keep thinking about it and we'll see how it works out in game.I came to the exact same conclusion. SADS have been made somewhat less substantial than just using the advantages of stealth and ambush that comes with the Outlaw Flag, and kill for the 75%.
Originally I was planning on making SAD offers of 20% for flagged travelers, and 40% for unflagged travelers. Now that I know we are giving up 75% as a maximum, I will up my amounts to 40% for flagged and 60% for unflagged.
My other two questions still stand:
1. When we SAD, can we see the unthreaded items? More specifically, can we see the present durability of the threaded items?
2. what impact does the Outlaw Flag have on the looting system? Do we get to recover some of that 25% normally destroyed without the Outlaw Flag?
Actually, after re reading the blog, it says approximately 25% will be destroyed. So maybe they plan to factor the Flag of the killer/killers into what the actual drop is.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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(was this already stated and I missed it?)
What exactly does "25% of your gear" mean? Number, weight or nominal value?
If my unthreaded gear is a 10kg rock, 20 pebbles and a diamond...
... Then your expected corpse loot is 7.5kg rock, 15 pebbles, an .75 of a diamond. What the variance will be is unknown.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Which means most bandits will SAD at 50% or more, which is harsher than I imagined. Plus, you die, the bandit loots what he wants, deletes what he doesn't. I can't see a single way to avoid that. Like I said, my off the cuff response is that 75% is too much, but I'll keep thinking about it and we'll see how it works out in game.Not a huge fan of the quantity of what is lootable by a bandit. Seems to swing things a little too heavily in their favor. But, I'll keep thinking about it and we'll see how it goes down in game.Thats why there will be the SAD mechanic. You can avoid being killed if you give the dog a bone. Although, in a fantasy game like this, nothing really explodes when you die so everything should be dropped.
Incentive to hire a big strong mercenary guard (or company thereof). Some of them may even relish stomping those filthy bandits and not charge you too much.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That was my reaction too, though I just took the game logic of trade-off of utility of slots: Carry more vs Do more?
They're probably more like the military belts for ammo, that take up bulky space around your waist that would otherwise be where a dagger or something slotted? When you're hiking it's amazing how every part of your person is inspected for some use as storage or to free up weight! Not saying the above makes sense, just trying to make sense of it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A durability zero item is unusable but remains in your inventory, rather than simply evaporating (it may be renamed to "Broken [gear item]" or something similar to explain why you can no longer equip it). If it's a fairly standard item, you'll probably just want to trash it at that point because it'd be just as expensive to get a new one as to repair it. But if it has some rare enchant or other customization, it may still be worthwhile to repair it from zero rather than replacing it.
But, yes, there may very well be a pretty brisk market in extremely-low-durability items that nobody bothers to thread, and if it happens to get destroyed on death, well, threading would basically do the same thing.
I'm wondering why if you let your item go to broken it can still be repaired... and doesn't just turn into an unrepairable but material salvageable scrap item.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Incentive to hire a big strong mercenary guard (or company thereof). Some of them may even relish stomping those filthy bandits and not charge you too much.Which means most bandits will SAD at 50% or more, which is harsher than I imagined. Plus, you die, the bandit loots what he wants, deletes what he doesn't. I can't see a single way to avoid that. Like I said, my off the cuff response is that 75% is too much, but I'll keep thinking about it and we'll see how it works out in game.Not a huge fan of the quantity of what is lootable by a bandit. Seems to swing things a little too heavily in their favor. But, I'll keep thinking about it and we'll see how it goes down in game.Thats why there will be the SAD mechanic. You can avoid being killed if you give the dog a bone. Although, in a fantasy game like this, nothing really explodes when you die so everything should be dropped.
Their loot will be a great addition.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm wondering why if you let your item go to broken it can still be repaired... and doesn't just turn into an unrepairable but material salvageable scrap item.A durability zero item is unusable but remains in your inventory, rather than simply evaporating (it may be renamed to "Broken [gear item]" or something similar to explain why you can no longer equip it). If it's a fairly standard item, you'll probably just want to trash it at that point because it'd be just as expensive to get a new one as to repair it. But if it has some rare enchant or other customization, it may still be worthwhile to repair it from zero rather than replacing it.
But, yes, there may very well be a pretty brisk market in extremely-low-durability items that nobody bothers to thread, and if it happens to get destroyed on death, well, threading would basically do the same thing.
And the cost of fixing that will be almost as much as making a new one. So the cost itself will be a good sink. Also, it will take a crafter of the caliber that made the item in the first place to fix it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Definitely like this blog. Item decay addresses the economy of materials perfectly, and I like that items can be repaired by crafters in a relatively simple way. Will there be a way to reprocess items to recover materials from them - ie: melt down a sword or piece of armour to retrieve a low percentage of metal from them?
Hopefully "vendors" won't be too common in the game - they tend to fix the minimum price for items. I'd rather see transactions between players via the market much more often.
Will there be a way for a bandit to roughly calculate their target's value before they initiate their ambush? Or is it likely to be luck of the draw?
I'm also interested to know how the inventory size of caravans compares to a single player's inventory. Hopefully there will be more than just a single size of caravans, or perhaps convoys of caravans will be encouraged (with armed guards of course).
Obviously a big talking point amongst parts of the community once the game is live will be the loot that was "procured" or destroyed during an encounter. It would be great if there was a way to easily show your friends the value of the stuff you destroyed (and perhaps those items which didn't drop), or what the total value of that caravan was worth. Unless you steal the caravan of course =P
Kinda like killmails in EVE I suppose.
And in regards to the part where it says: "it's probable that items you've acquired more recently will be more likely to survive."
Why should it matter? It should be equal chance for each unthreaded item. Imagine spending all your money on a brand new item only to have the local bandit take it from your corpse. If it isn't likely to drop, where is the risk?
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Goblin Squad Member
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And the cost of fixing that will be almost as much as making a new one. So the cost itself will be a good sink. Also, it will take a crafter of the caliber that made the item in the first place to fix it.I'm wondering why if you let your item go to broken it can still be repaired... and doesn't just turn into an unrepairable but material salvageable scrap item.A durability zero item is unusable but remains in your inventory, rather than simply evaporating (it may be renamed to "Broken [gear item]" or something similar to explain why you can no longer equip it). If it's a fairly standard item, you'll probably just want to trash it at that point because it'd be just as expensive to get a new one as to repair it. But if it has some rare enchant or other customization, it may still be worthwhile to repair it from zero rather than replacing it.
But, yes, there may very well be a pretty brisk market in extremely-low-durability items that nobody bothers to thread, and if it happens to get destroyed on death, well, threading would basically do the same thing.
But let's say you need a really rare diamond for example to craft a certain keyword. So the broken item would mean that a certain precious ingredient or component has broken in the item, for example a diamond that, if it cracks, cannot be repaired.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But let's say you need a really rare diamond for example to craft a certain keyword. So the broken item would mean that a certain precious ingredient or component has broken in the item, for example a diamond that, if it cracks, cannot be repaired.
To prevent that scenario, you can increase granularity in crafting materials. Instead of a necklace requiring '1 spectacular diamond', it could require 'spectacular diamond (quantity 20)'.
Of course, adjusting the yield from farming to suit the the amount consumed through crafting.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But let's say you need a really rare diamond for example to craft a certain keyword. So the broken item would mean that a certain precious ingredient or component has broken in the item, for example a diamond that, if it cracks, cannot be repaired.To prevent that scenario, you can increase granularity in crafting materials. Instead of a necklace requiring '1 spectacular diamond', it could require 'spectacular diamond (quantity 20)'.
Of course, adjusting the yield from farming to suit the the amount consumed through crafting.
Somehow I find it more intriguing to have just a one rare diamond than twenty of them, but that's just me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Somehow I find it more intriguing to have just a one rare diamond than twenty of them, but that's just me.But let's say you need a really rare diamond for example to craft a certain keyword. So the broken item would mean that a certain precious ingredient or component has broken in the item, for example a diamond that, if it cracks, cannot be repaired.To prevent that scenario, you can increase granularity in crafting materials. Instead of a necklace requiring '1 spectacular diamond', it could require 'spectacular diamond (quantity 20)'.
Of course, adjusting the yield from farming to suit the the amount consumed through crafting.
You can look at it as one diamond with value 20 if you want.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You can look at it as one diamond with value 20 if you want.Somehow I find it more intriguing to have just a one rare diamond than twenty of them, but that's just me.But let's say you need a really rare diamond for example to craft a certain keyword. So the broken item would mean that a certain precious ingredient or component has broken in the item, for example a diamond that, if it cracks, cannot be repaired.To prevent that scenario, you can increase granularity in crafting materials. Instead of a necklace requiring '1 spectacular diamond', it could require 'spectacular diamond (quantity 20)'.
Of course, adjusting the yield from farming to suit the the amount consumed through crafting.
My point was that I would find it more appealing if items were somehow destroyed completely in their life span or turned back into materials.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So, if you loot without looting rights you get the Criminal Flag. If they don't change it, the flag lasts 10 minutes. If you loot again (without rights) the flag gets an additional 10 minutes and a count increase of 1. At Criminal count 10 you get a 24-hr Brigand flag. Outlaw flag can not be turned off while Criminal or Brigand flags are in place. I think this is an Enforcer's field day.
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Goblin Squad Member
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From a player who enjoys role-playing niche characters, this blog resurrected the possibility for a character I used to play (as an alt) in UO...Bob the Garbage Man. If we are now going to have item decay potentially creating less desirable items and encumbrance leading to the need to free up space by pitching the less valuable things before going out to adventure again, then hopefully there may be a need for a junk-man who pays a minimal fee to take all that trash off your hands, then melts/recycles/repairs it for a profit.
As long as there isn't a simple drain for unwanted items (NPC vendors), you would be surprised how often people who don't want to go through the extra work of recycling, repairing, etc. and will sell of even donate such items, especially if the person collecting is providing entertainment by role-playing the part. It's not a role most players would want to spend their game time playing, but in games sandboxy enough to allow it, the majority of my game fun has been derived from making other players' game time more enjoyable. In a game that will have very few visible NPCs, there's some great fun to be had in playing the "average" people.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So, if you loot without looting rights you get the Criminal Flag. If they don't change it, the flag lasts 10 minutes. If you loot again (without rights) the flag gets an additional 10 minutes and a count increase of 1. At Criminal count 10 you get a 24-hr Brigand flag. Outlaw flag can not be turned off while Criminal or Brigand flags are in place. I think this is an Enforcer's field day.
Harad,
Depending on how they work stealth (there are a lot of ways this could be tweaked), it might also be a stealther-criminal's field day. Imagine a thief with the highest tier of stealthing sneaking about the world, waiting for someone else to do the evil deed, then picking the corpse at opportune times and slipping back into the shadows. Those who planned to play Enforcers likely already planned to train Detection, but with the new rules, this might become quite a game of hide and seek.
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@Pancake
Please no killmails....all they do is encourage carebear pvp where people don't engage unless they are sure of winning. The end result in Eve was a lot of people concentrated on easy targets to pad their killboards. Killmail or its equivalent aren't needed and add absolutely nothing to the game except for giving idiots the means to wave their epeen.
In PfO the only thing that counts for war is did you destroy/defend the settlement sucessfully thats how we can tell who won not some meaningless coin destroyed metric.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Since we have yet to see the (promised in this blog for a later date) caravan rules we can't determine if you can "kill the driver and drive the wagon away" as @The Goodfellow suggested.
The question also remains as to what constitutes a group for sharing looting rights. It may be that to be a "group" all individuals will have to fly the same long term PvP flag. It is the easiest way, I think, for the game to mechanically allow or disallow groupings.
The blog does raise several questions on how bandits get away with their loot. Lets say that a target has only the standard encumbrance (20) and 15 of that is equipment with 10 threaded, leaving 5 encumbrance for transport. Lets say that the bandit is equipped the same but with nothing in his 5 encumbrance for loot. When the bandit kills the target, 2.5 encumbrance (25% of 10) is destroyed leaving 7.5 encumbrance to be looted. If the bandit loots it all they have 23.5 encumbrance and a reduction in speed. The bandit could maximize there encumbrance allowance with containers at the cost of a back slot, a waist slot and a wondrous item slot. If the added allowance is 10 (3 for sack, 2 for pouches and 5 for backpack) the bandit will have an encumbrance limit of 30, 15 of which is available for loot. The bandit can get away without reduction in speed at the cost of being under-equipped due to the lose of three equipment slots. This may have a serious affect on the bandit's ability to make and survive a kill.
However, if a group of bandits has character pack-mules, with little in the way of equipment and maxed containers, you might think that this problem is solved. Unfortunately, if the character pack-mules were not in the fight, they will not have looting rights and get a 10 minute criminal flag. If they are part of the "group" for a group kill, and if they also must ware the Outlaw flag to counted as a part of the group, they will be Outlaw for the full 10 minutes. This will make it easier for the Enforcers to do what they do best, kill bandits.
Granted they may not have to be an outlaw to be in an outlaw group, but they are less likely to be considered having looting rights if they don't participate in the kill in a meaningful way, meaning that they damaged the target in a fight. Hard to fight when you are stripped down to carry stuff.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Pancake
Please no killmails....all they do is encourage carebear pvp where people don't engage unless they are sure of winning. The end result in Eve was a lot of people concentrated on easy targets to pad their killboards. Killmail or its equivalent aren't needed and add absolutely nothing to the game except for giving idiots the means to wave their epeen.
In PfO the only thing that counts for war is did you destroy/defend the settlement sucessfully thats how we can tell who won not some meaningless coin destroyed metric.
Absolutely agree.... Kill Boards encourages noob farming (griefing). If GW has any real plans for anti griefing, this is the number one thing they need to prevent.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Harad The Mule might be a character traveling near but not in the Outlaw group. He has a core alignment of maybe NG, maybe NN. The Outlaw loots the body and gives it to the Mule.
That's permissible, isn't it? It's not like there's a flag for receiving stolen property (trading with a flagged outlaw/criminal/attacker).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hopefully "vendors" won't be too common in the game - they tend to fix the minimum price for items. I'd rather see transactions between players via the market much more often.
Ryan's thoughts on an initial economy:
"...we need to make it possible for new characters to buy the stuff they need to get started in a life in the River Kingdoms. What may not be as obvious is that there also needs to be a market for new crafters to sell the stuff they make so they can earn an income and progress towards making more and more valuable stuff."
"The solution I think (and don't hold me to this) that we'll use is that there will be NPC buyers and sellers for the entry-level stuff in the markets in the 3 NPC settlements. They will likely buy at a price that is fixed, setting a floor on entry level sales to ensure some moderate profit on those items. And they'll likely sell at a price that is low enough to be reasonable for new characters, but not lower than the buy price (so you can't just resell the items to the NPCs at a profit)."
"A player crafter who works on building up skills and abilities may be able to undercut the NPC sellers and still make a profit, and that's fine; it just makes buying entry level stuff even cheaper for everyone. If that happens, the NPCs should withdraw their offers to sell entry level stuff until there are no sellers willing to undercut them."
"If people try to keep the market for selling entry level goods closed (by consistently dumping inventory at a price so low that a new crafter can't make and sell things at a profit), we'd intervene to make that stop."
"An organic model would have the NPC vendors put out "buy" orders when they run low on inventory, giving incentives to crafters to fill those orders, thus making all the stuff in the economy player-created. That will only work if there are enough crafters willing and able to fill all the NPC orders. If we find that there aren't, then the NPCs will have to create entry level goods from the digital ether. The sooner that ends, the happier I'll be..."
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Harad The Mule might be a character traveling near but not in the Outlaw group. He has a core alignment of maybe NG, maybe NN. The Outlaw loots the body and gives it to the Mule.
That's permissible, isn't it? It's not like there's a flag for receiving stolen property (trading with a flagged outlaw/criminal/attacker).
My understanding is the Outlaws flag is used up once the combat is over. It takes 30 seconds to raise it again, but the Bandit would be foolish to do that then.
CN Bandit: Flagged OutLaw SADS Traveler:
Traveler Accepts, trades loot, no attacker flag, Outlaw Flag spent?
Traveler Declines, combat, attacker flag replaced outlaw flag, combat ends, 1 minute later attacker flag is gone, bandit flags as traveler and leaves the area.
I'm still thinking the Enforcers, if there are any, have 1 minute to respond. Any later and they are likely to see an unflagged bandit or one flagged now as a traveler.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Long-Term Flags
We've also added a number of voluntary PvP flags players can activate on themselves so they can engage in PvP within a specific alignment-defined role. The point of these is to encourage players to announce their intent, such as Outlaws intending to rob people, so other players can act accordingly rather than players being unable to be proactive in their own defense.Long-term PvP flags will be activated through UI on the character window.
They put an icon next to the character's name that denotes they are PvP active and what flag they have.
Each of these flags has an alignment requirement to activate.
Only one of these flags can be active at any time.
Characters may only activate one of these flags when out of combat. Flagging is a thirty second process, during which there is some manner of visual signifier that they are activating the flag (flashing name, icon, etc.).
These flags work like other PvP flags: A person targeting the character unprovoked gains the Involved flag and does not lose any reputation or alignment upon fighting/killing the target.
All of these flags have bonuses that increase (up to a maximum) over time logged in while flagged. Certain actions can reset this bonus without removing the flag (as detailed within the entry). If the player loses/deliberately disables and reactivates the flag, it resets the bonuses to the minimum.Outlaw (Chaotic)
The Outlaw flag is for players who want to rob other players, commit acts of banditry, etc. It can be used by chaotic evil players to be brigands, or by chaotic good players to be Robin Hood-style robbers. Outlaws use a new mechanic we are working on developing called stand and deliver, which allows the Outlaw to demand money from their victim through a trade window. If the victim refuses, the Outlaw gets to carry out his threats of force without losing reputation.This flag cannot be disabled while Attacker, Criminal, or Heinous (or their 24-hour versions) are active.
While Outlaw is active:
The player gets more loot when searching PvP kills that goes up each hour up to ten hours.
The player gets a bonus to Stealth that goes up each hour up to ten hours.
These bonuses reset to the minimum upon gaining the Attacker flag unless the target was offered and rejected a stand-and-deliver trade within five minutes of the attack.
If the victim was offered and rejected stand and deliver, the Outlaw loses no reputation for killing the target within five minutes of the rejection.
If the victim and Outlaw completed a stand-and-deliver trade, the Outlaw loses double reputation for killing the target within 20 minutes. (If they pay, you should let them go.)
When an Outlaw receives a ransom from stand and deliver, they get reputation up to a daily max.
Where did this start? This outlaw flag gets "used up" stuff? Can someone show a relevant quote?
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Goblin Squad Member
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1) I'm not sure about the time it takes to raise/lower a flag, but 30 seconds sounds right.
2) I believe that the actions that end a flag are spelled out. However, I also believe that the long term PvP flags are actively started and actively stopped, not terminated when a short term action not so specifically stated is ended.
2) If you open a trade window to loot a corpse, do you have to close it to open a trade window with your mule?
3) How long does it take to open a trade window, examine the loot, loot, and close a trade window? Remember that damage interrupts both the examination and the looting (trade window).
4) If you have to stop and conduct trade with someone, that might delay you long enough to allow Enforcers to arrive while you still carry the Outlaw flag.
5) I think that there is a market for an Enforcer Escort Service, where for a fee you gain 3 or 4 Enforcer escorts to accompany you back to your husk.
6) How does someone who comes up to someone else looting a husk know that the person is not the owner of the husk simply getting their stuff back?
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Harad The Mule might be a character traveling near but not in the Outlaw group. He has a core alignment of maybe NG, maybe NN. The Outlaw loots the body and gives it to the Mule.
That's permissible, isn't it? It's not like there's a flag for receiving stolen property (trading with a flagged outlaw/criminal/attacker).
1) I think that the Outlaw will have to wait for the other persons to arrive and conduct the trade. The bandit may or may not be able to drop the Outlaw flag before they arrive.
2) Does the Outlaw flag make all your possessions "stolen" and marked so when you trade something while still an Outlaw? [EDIT: your question]3) If the Outlaw trades something to someone who is not an Outlaw, do they now get taged with the Outlaw flag?
4) How do the mules know where to go and how long does it take to get there?
5) If the mules are in the hideout, does that somehow automatically make them part of the bandit group?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Where did this start? This outlaw flag gets "used up" stuff? Can someone show a relevant quote?
Used up was perhaps the wrong way of saying it. Reset to minimum was what I should have said.
These bonuses reset to the minimum upon gaining the Attacker flag unless the target was offered and rejected a stand-and-deliver trade within five minutes of the attack.
If the victim was offered and rejected stand and deliver, the Outlaw loses no reputation for killing the target within five minutes of the rejection.
If the victim and Outlaw completed a stand-and-deliver trade, the Outlaw loses double reputation for killing the target within 20 minutes. (If they pay, you should let them go.)
So an advantage to the SAD is that in either case, it does not result in an attacker flag. Even if there is a rejection and combat, still no attacker flag.
So, could the Bandit, use Outlaw Flag to issue the SAD, and then immediately after the SAD, turn it off?
It says that it takes 30 seconds to bring a flag up, but not how long it takes to take it down.
The Enforcers may not even have a minute to get there if a SAD was used. SADs are not attacks, but negotiations, and even the rejection does not result in the attacker flag.
Considering this new Blog, it really is a benefit for the traveler to accept a "reasonable" SAD offer. Bandits on the other side of the coin, should really offer them. I'm certain this is in the spirit of what the Devs want.
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Goblin Squad Member
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3) How long does it take to open a trade window, examine the loot, loot, and close a trade window? Remember that damage interrupts both the examination and the looting (trade window).
Is there a timer for each item based on its Encumbrance?
6) How does someone who comes up to someone else looting a husk know that the person is not the owner of the husk simply getting their stuff back?
For a while anyway, anyone who's not the owner will be flagged, which you'll be able to see.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Used up was perhaps the wrong way of saying it. Reset to minimum was what I should have said.
My understanding is the Outlaws flag is used up once the combat is over. It takes 30 seconds to raise it again...
It sure sounded like you thought it went away completely...
Traveler Declines, combat, attacker flag replaced outlaw flag, combat ends, 1 minute later attacker flag is gone, bandit flags as traveler and leaves the area.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's not accurate.
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Goblin Squad Member
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1) An attacker's Involved flag (Outlaw attacking Traveler) ends at the end of combat. Attacker flag ends one minute after combat.
2) I think that turning off a flag takes as long as turning on a flag. Too one sided if not.
3) Traveler can not be activated if Attacker flag is present. So at least 90 seconds after combat to get Traveler flag if SAD declined and Traveler is killed.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Originally I was planning on making SAD offers of 20% for flagged travelers, and 40% for unflagged travelers. Now that I know we are giving up 75% as a maximum, I will up my amounts to 40% for flagged and 60% for unflagged.
Considering this new Blog, it really is a benefit for the traveler to accept a "reasonable" SAD offer. Bandits on the other side of the coin, should really offer them. I'm certain this is in the spirit of what the Devs want.
That sounds like a good idea. Keep the numbers high, but only high enough to be better then death for them.
lol. Your idea of a "reasonable SAD" will just drive more into "Millions for defence, not one copper for tribute!".
Your rep will tank. If that does not regulate your behavior somehow, and in fact causes it to unbalance banditry, I am sure that the mechanics will be adjusted.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The previously dead character always has looting rights to his or her own corpse, and those who did the most damage to the character and their party members are also given loot rights. We're still working out the specifics of who gets loot rights when a lot of people contributed to your death; if you died in a one-on-one fight, or a whole party-on-one fight, your killer(s) certainly get looting rights.
[My bolding in quote.]
I think that a party will have to all fly the same long-term PvP flag. If the party can be considered one entity for killing a target, a party has 5 Outlaws and 3 Travelers would allow the Travelers will gain the rights of an Outlaw Flag without having to fly the Outlaw flag. This breaks (at the very least in spirit) the "only one long-term PvP flag at a time" rule.|
Goblin Squad Member
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I kinda hope we get more 'cargo capacity' or Encumbrance that a mere 100 points of 'Encumbrance'. That's ... kinda small, especially for people who may be planning a Heavy Armor/Large Weapon style of character.
And don't forget that example of character 'fully invested in carrying capacity', meaning that this Character has specifically gone out of their way to be a glorified Mule.
The Container Issue also scares me a little ..
No Magic Cloak if you want a Backpack.
No Magic Belt if you want Belt-Pouches.
One or both of your Wondrous Items Slots taken.
And with the 'High-End' containers (we're talking what, 2.5 years in maybe?) you MAY be able to double the 100 points of Encumbrance ... ouch. Of course, I may just be panicking, being a raging kleptomaniac and this IS just pre-BETA plan, after all, but it does scare me.
On the other hand, I will go out on a limb and say we're also probably avoiding the WoW situation of have 2+ full sets of Armor, Weapons and Magical Items in our BELT POUCHES for any situation.
If we're going for this far, should containers also have some sort of size-limitation? No storing that +2 Human-Bane Spear in your belt-pouch, etc?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Would you really want to lose all the bonuses you've built up - and not get them back for another 10 hours?
To foil your pursuers? Why not, if it's easy (edit: and you can taunt them as they mill about, confused). The bonuses an Outlaw gets are more loot (and that might be minimal or nothing as of yesterday) and increased stealth, which might not be needed after you've done your ambush.
Where did this start? This outlaw flag gets "used up" stuff? Can someone show a relevant quote?
From Outlaw flag stuff: "These bonuses reset to the minimum upon gaining the Attacker flag unless the target was offered and rejected a stand-and-deliver trade within five minutes of the attack." So if the Outlaw launches a non-SAD attack on a non-flagged character, he's flagged at an Attacker as well and loses his accumulated stealth buff and his accumulated loot buff. (they drop to some minimum - the accumulated buffs are used up.)
Regarding deactivate that long-term outlaw flag: "This flag cannot be disabled while Attacker, Criminal, or Heinous (or their 24-hour versions) are active." Which means it can be disabled when those flags aren't active/have expired. The Attacker flag lasts for one minute after combat ends. The Criminal flag lasts ten minutes unless the character does something to get it again before the duration runs out. Which suggests the Outlaw flag can disappear pretty fast.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Regarding deactivate that long-term outlaw flag: "This flag cannot be disabled while Attacker, Criminal, or Heinous (or their 24-hour versions) are active." Which means it can be disabled when those flags aren't active/have expired. The Attacker flag lasts for one minute after combat ends. The Criminal flag lasts ten minutes unless the character does something to get it again before the duration runs out. Which suggests the Outlaw flag can disappear pretty fast.
Unless there is an inherent delay in disabling longterm flags. As you choose to deactivate, you start a counter ticking down to when it will be disabled.
Could be anything from seconds to 15 min or more.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Bluddwolf
I will be KOS because I will never accept a SAD. That is fine. What you might consider is SADing your targets for a reasonable amount. Something that leaves them more than a chance to only lose money or barely make it back. Otherwise, you might find nothing but escorts so heavily armed that it is not viable to go for them.
Why drive your easy prey into extinction?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I kinda hope we get more 'cargo capacity' or Encumbrance that a mere 100 points of 'Encumbrance'. That's ... kinda small, especially for people who may be planning a Heavy Armor/Large Weapon style of character.
[--]
And with the 'High-End' containers (we're talking what, 2.5 years in maybe?) you MAY be able to double the 100 points of Encumbrance ... ouch. Of course, I may just be panicking, being a raging kleptomaniac and this IS just pre-BETA plan, after all, but it does scare me.
If 1 encumbrance = 5 pounds = 2.3 kg, we are talking a max of 1000 pounds or 460 kg(approx) carrying capacity. Where I grew up, that would be considered a lot of weight.
If we're going for this far, should containers also have some sort of size-limitation? No storing that +2 Human-Bane Spear in your belt-pouch, etc?
They said no to this in the blog, the extra carry slots will simply add to total capacity without accounting for what is stored where specifically.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I kinda hope we get more 'cargo capacity' or Encumbrance that a mere 100 points of 'Encumbrance'. That's ... kinda small, especially for people who may be planning a Heavy Armor/Large Weapon style of character.
We don't yet know how to evaluate the 100 points. What if light armour were one point, medium two, and heavy three? What if a one-handed weapon is one point, and a two-hander two?
100 points looks pretty reasonable there, but we've no more reason to expect that end of a scale than there is to be concerned yet.
EDIT: And Wurner provided the math I was about to add...thanks!
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Goblin Squad Member
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No storing that +2 Human-Bane Spear in your belt-pouch, etc?
I think they addressed that with
"The containers aren't defined spaces which specifically include their own items, but instead directly increase the character's encumbrance threshold. For example, if a new player with a normal encumbrance threshold of 20 had one 3-point bag and a (hilariously heavy) 23-encumbrance item, it would fit in his inventory no problem. He'd be right at his encumbrance threshold, and removing the bag would only serve to bump him over the threshold by three points; nothing would be "in" the bag separately from his main inventory."
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Goblin Squad Member
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lol. Your idea of a "reasonable SAD" will just drive more into "Millions for defence, not one copper for tribute!".Your rep will tank. If that does not regulate your behavior somehow, and in fact causes it to unbalance banditry, I am sure that the mechanics will be adjusted.
No, our reputation remains the same if the SAD is rejected. Our loot is 75% if you reject and lose.
I laugh every time you guys write that slogan of yours. Maybe 1 in a 1000 will take that stance and maybe only once or twice before they realize that it sounds better in theory than it works out in practice.
If you are doing it and no one else is, you will be one if the poorest merchants on the server. But hey, that just gives me 75% of what you had instead of the 40% I might have asked for., actually you probably wouldn't flag for PvP, so make that 60%.
You also assume that we will just be bandits. We will also do quests and mess with escalations. Depending on the alignment and reputation bonuses that go with doing those, I could quite possibly be a Chaotic Good, High Rep Bandit.
Oh what irony would that be?