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Sooo.. Imagine this. You're in the middle of a bar fight. Someone appears at the door, ready to torch the place.
You shout "EVERYONE RUN OR YOUR GONNA DIE!" but your words fall on deaf ears. Not because people were too dumb to understand. But because Intimidate doesn't work that way. Only Ted.. the guy you happened to be looking at as you spent a standard action to yell out that everyone needed to cheese it, gets a little weak in the knees. No body runs.
Turns out Intimidate has two uses. A Demoralize or where you have to spend a minute yelling at private twinkle toes. Who gets all upset with you later on.
People could be getting torn to bloody heaps of flesh.. Godzilla could be marching in.. but you can't get people to run from it. Nope. You can get one person weak in the knees or preach to one person for a minute.
What.. the... flying.. kobold is this gelatinous cube?
Yar!
By the rules, the only way to do the above is with Dazzling Display or with magic. This is because the rules are designed for use as a game, not a reality simulator.
The "realism" argument is that it should be an intimidate check, and it should be able to sway anyone who can hear you. The RAW is that it can only affect a single person, despite multiple people hearing you and having evidence back up your claim/warning.
Also, Dazzling Display requires Weapon Focus, which itself required BAB+1. That's quite the investment for something that (using the realism argument) should be possible for anyone. (let alone the fluff of Dazzling Display being your dazzling proficiency at brandishing a weapon, not the same as screaming "FIRE!" in a crowded theater).
~P
Sorry, Pathfinder's skill system is crappy! Make it up or play a game better suited for what you want.
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Only if you have a weapon. Only after you've spent a rather long time training to wave said weapon around. (As it is 2/10 feats you get since you have to get weapon focus first.)
To turn your clown faced chainsaw that can rip a man to a bloody mess as his soul screams out in agony from you ripping it out of his bung hole into something that causes some people to become a little weak in the knees.
Meanwhile someone could take weapon focus feather duster. Dazzling display, and get the same results.
Sorry, Pathfinder's skill system is crappy! Make it up or play a game better suited for what you want.Well then.. have it get improved!
Otherwise we'd still be playing 3.0!
When it comes to the skill system, we practically are. They consolidated some stuff, but the very premise of it was the real problem. It's insufficient at best. The game is about adventuring, killing dudes, and taking their stuff. The skill system is an afterthought.
By the rules, you can't clear the room with intimidate, but that's why we play with GMs. I think most GMs would choose "make something up" and just let you roll Intimidate to do what you wanted in that circumstance.
Are you saying you should be able to frighten people into running away with intimidate in general?
Because in your situations I don't think you need to use any skills. Running will come naturally to them.
I too am saddened that I can't do the "EVERYBODY MOVE" a la Princess Bride
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Sorry, Pathfinder's skill system is crappy! Make it up or play a game better suited for what you want.Well then.. have it get improved!
Otherwise we'd still be playing 3.0!
When it comes to the skill system, we practically are. They consolidated some stuff, but the very premise of it was the real problem. It's insufficient at best. The game is about adventuring, killing dudes, and taking their stuff. The skill system is an afterthought.
By the rules, you can't clear the room with intimidate, but that's why we play with GMs. I think most GMs would choose "make something up" and just let you roll Intimidate to do what you wanted in that circumstance.
Our GM at the time of the barfight was being a stickler about the rules and how you can only be scary to one person at a time.
This is stuff that needs an overhaul to make martial characters actually /useful/.
My character mentions a character named K and everyone flees. No check.
Another character gets a 30.. as a level 3 character, and no one even bats an eye. They're too drunk and cops don't exist in this world, so no one knows what the hell you're saying, says the GM. (after I pointed out drunk stoned teenagers flee the moment they here the word Cops.)
Its not just this.. If you're a giant 50 tall monster, but you don't have frightful presence for some reason.. You only can get the scary eye at one person. And the most you can do is make him weak at the knees.
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Actually you could just use the rules for crowds:
Directing Crowds: It takes a DC 15 Diplomacy check or DC 20 Intimidate check to convince a crowd to move in a particular direction, and the crowd must be able to hear or see the character making the attempt. It takes a full-round action to make the Diplomacy check, but only a free action to make the Intimidate check.
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Yar!
Actually you could just use the rules for crowds:
Directing Crowds: It takes a DC 15 Diplomacy check or DC 20 Intimidate check to convince a crowd to move in a particular direction, and the crowd must be able to hear or see the character making the attempt. It takes a full-round action to make the Diplomacy check, but only a free action to make the Intimidate check.
There are a lot of rules spread over many different books. While I (now) know where this rule is, many do not. By the very existence of this thread it should be clear that many do not know where that rule is (or that it even exists at all). Please site your sources rather than simply declaring it so, else it can be assumed that you are simply making things up. (I've been guilty of this on occasion as well, but I do try, especially if it's something generally less known and/or located in an obscure place).
~P
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Yeah, I didn't know there was a special rule for crowds, either. (And it would be the most appropriate option in this case.)
In general, it seems like it would be appropriate to allow someone to Intimidate multiple people at a penalty of, say, -2 per person after the first, possibly as a full-round action instead of a standard. You would only succeed at intimidating those targets whose Intimidate DC you surpass after the penalty. The effect of Dazzling Display would then be to eliminate the multi-target penalty.
Alternatively, exceeding the DC on your Intimidate check could be used to affect other targets rather than extend the duration (with the most-timid targets being intimidated first).
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I like the Directing Crowd rule as an answer.
However playing devil's advocate I would simply say the rules of Intimidate are fine as they stand.
If you appear at the door, ready to torch the place and shout "EVERYONE RUN OR YOUR GONNA DIE!" and then proceed to set fire to the place, even without an Intimidate check most people in the building will flee - of their own volition; its just a course of action that makes sense.
If you're just threatening to torch the place but don't actually want to carry out that threat it comes down to Bluff versus Sense Motive, failure would then mean people inside would get to act on the assumption that you will try to torch the place - some may flee, some may try to stop you.
And that is part of the point about Intimidate, a successful check isn't just to see whether you instil a bit of fear or trepidation into your target, a successful check means you instil that fear to such a degree that you get them to act in a way that benefits you.
So if you threaten to torch the place unless everyone leaves, and you are actually willing to carry out the threat (therefore its not a Bluff check) then yes, you may actually instil a bit of fear in all the people, but whether you do that in such a way that everyone does as you want, i.e. leave, is a much harder task. Just like a successful bluff check, your foes may flee or they may try to stop you or try to gather their belongings so they won't be lost in the fire etc.
I see that the ninjas have already linked to it, but it hasn't been quoted yet, so here are the rules for directing crowds:
Directing Crowds: It takes a DC 15 Diplomacy check or DC 20 Intimidate check to convince a crowd to move in a particular direction, and the crowd must be able to hear or see the character making the attempt. It takes a full-round action to make the Diplomacy check, but only a free action to make the Intimidate check.
If two or more characters are trying to direct a crowd in different directions, they make opposed Diplomacy or Intimidate checks to determine to whom the crowd listens. The crowd ignores everyone if none of the characters' check results beat the DCs given above.
1. I wouldn't make you roll a skill check for that. Unless someone is rock stupid or deaf, when someone comes in the room intending to torch the place and you call their attention to it, THEY REACT (most would run, some might rush the guy if they were decent fighters by commoner standards).
2. If I were to make you roll a skill check, it would be Diplomacy, not Intimidate.
3. If you REALLY wanted to roll Intimidate, I'd probably let you, and it would work as you wanted to. This is really just a 'the skills section lists typical uses, not EVERY use' thing for me.
Sorry for not quoting where it was from. I actually did not know and the only reason I knew about it at all is because my girlfriend is playing an urban barbarian which gets a bonus to the check. Knowing that I searched for "crowds" on the D20PFSRD....
Also, Dazzling Display requires Weapon Focus, which itself required BAB+1. That's quite the investment for something that (using the realism argument) should be possible for anyone. (let alone the fluff of Dazzling Display being your dazzling proficiency at brandishing a weapon, not the same as screaming "FIRE!" in a crowded theater).
~P
Weapon Focus (unarmed strike).
I run into the movie theater, flailing about with the dedicated focus of a champion, screaming for everyone to run out of said theater.
Also, bad example. You probably don't want to give everyone in the crowded theater a –2 penalty on attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks, and saving throws, or else they're pushing and shoving and tripping over each other's shoe laces and stuff.
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1. I wouldn't make you roll a skill check for that. Unless someone is rock stupid or deaf, when someone comes in the room intending to torch the place and you call their attention to it, THEY REACT (most would run, some might rush the guy if they were decent fighters by commoner standards).
2. If I were to make you roll a skill check, it would be Diplomacy, not Intimidate.
3. If you REALLY wanted to roll Intimidate, I'd probably let you, and it would work as you wanted to. This is really just a 'the skills section lists typical uses, not EVERY use' thing for me.
Well fighters get indimidate. So the guy was trying to use his one social skill to actually do something helpful before the guards blast the tavern with fireballs and kill everyone inside.
And with the crowd control rules, Intimidate is free action, diplomacy is like a minute action. One of the few things Intimidate actually kinda is.. well.. useful.
Think of it like EVERYBODY MOVE Thats not diplomacy. Thats big scary guy yelling at you. Who looks like he could break you in half. Its just annoying that its /very/ hard to do this, unless you are able to use the crowd stuff, or you spend like 5 feats to yell really loud and such.
