No idea on how Iomadae would act personally, but asking a god a question is a fifth level spell if that makes a difference. Could always let him ask the questions and see the shock on their faces to the responses.
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1. Up to the GM, really. A god of justice would not abide a kangaroo court like this, though, I would think. Then again, REAL followers of that philosophy wouldn't set one up, either.
2. Necromancy, like anything else, is not inherently good or evil, and everybody should know this. One evil act doesn't negate the good deeds you've done. They could call you on the ONE thing you did (the torture), but everything else is bogus.
Just willingly submit to a Zone of Truth spell, though since these guys are obviously a corrupted church, have a back-up plan.
...His mother is the High Paladin of this area, effectively a bishop-equivalent. She's also the one holding a sword to his throat. Not sure how that affects his social status, but he has plenty of money to spend on commune spells if they'd let him.
Then something is DEFINITELY wrong here. I take it back ... get out of dodge, this is obviously a fraud. Nobody here is acting like they should. It's some kind of set-up, mind control or something.
Accidentally quoted instead of edited.
Zhayne, you do realize he IS the GM, right?
Zhayne, you do realize he IS the GM, right?
Actually, no.
But either way, this is my gut reaction. Something is completely f'd up here.
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Unless he has the ability to summon the deity then he can't.
He can gripe piss moan complain cry plead and beg but thats all irrelevant, unless you decide he makes a diplomacy roll (or a bluff roll) and one of the captors is succeptible to said roll.
"I don't recognize your authority" is completely irrelevant to whether or not that authority has the ability to exercise itself upon you.
1) Would a LG Deity do anything to stop someone from exercising the right and might of the law against someone, even one of their followers, who has broken the law? Nope.
2) Is he guilty of the crimes the followers of Iom have accused him of?
If he's guilty she'd find him guilty. If he's innocent she'd find him innocent.
Being sorry for them and making up for them are part of the sentencing, not part of whether or not the actions took place.
(remember- self defense means you KILLED the person, and are admitting to it, but are saying it was self defense in order to avoid the *punishment* from the death.)
If he did what he's accused of then the deity would find him guilty and then proceed to sentencing.
Now, if I were the player I would instead insist on a right to defend myself. I would argue that any trial that took place without my presence and the ability to defend myself can not be a just trial and would demand a new one. LG priests/priestesses should see the reasoning of that. (afterall, if no one was there to defend him then he didn't have a trial at all. he just had an accuser say "HE DID IT!" and the judge said "GUILTY!". Thats not a trial.)
-S
Up to the GM really.
But, my thinking is he would be surprised to find she might not be so happy with him as he thinks. She's essentailly the god of paladins. NOT redemption. However, that doesn't mean he would be executed. It would mean he'd have to prove himself and do away with his evil methods. Potentially neat story stuff to go with. But don't make him think she approves of the way he goes about things.
My take:
The Necromancer proclaims he will only be judged by Iomedae herself.
Iomedae will not respond.
The priests will offer to perform a commune spell. If he accepts, they will learn that he is not an evil-doer in the eyes of Iomedae, and will be forced to let him go, or risk the ire of their goddess.
If he does not accept, they may either do a commune ritual anyway, and figure out the exact same thing, OR they could just go through with their farce of a trial, ending in the necromancers execution, whereupon every paladin there will get a collective slap in the ass by Iomedae for allowing (and indeed, enabling) injustice. If the guy performing the execution is a paladin, he will fall, since killing this necromancer would be an evil act.
The Necromancer will not be ressurected, he will be dead. His soul will now be weighed by Pharasma, and he will likely then be sent on to walk in Iomedae's light until the end of time, or until he is raised by the efforts of his friends.
Is it just that he should die by the hand of Iomedaes clergy? No, but she is not their babysitter, and if the servants of a god mucks up her dogma and misrepresent her, then her damning gaze will fall on them for their actions.
my 2 cents :)
-Nearyn
Yar!
First impression:
PC: I will only accept judgement from a god, not you mortals.
Inquisitor: I willingly grant you your request. Prepare to meet your "god" *slices throat*
PC: Garble! *dies*
Inquisitor: Your soul has been sent to the boneyard, may Pharasma judge you for your sins.
(note: this is not a lawful solution)
Second impression:
Q: "what happens when a mortal wants to be judged by a god rather than a priest?"
A: He get's ignored by the god and gets judged by the priest anyways.
Third Impression:
PC: The only judgement I will accept would be that of Iomedae herself, and not through any of her servants.
Paladin: blasphemer! how dare you assume to be so mighty as to be equal to the gods! You are mortal like us, and have committed crimes against us. To dare assume that Iomedae would come down to us for your sake is preposterous! However, we have the next best thing, for I am not just a servant, but Iomedae's representative in these matters here on Golarion. Accept your punishment and be purged of sin, or die a blasphemer trying to resist.
(I'd call this one lawful stupid)
Fourth impression:
PC: I'm arrogant and think I'm above mortal law despite being mortal myself! >:P
Paladin: My apologies for the hasty decision. Perhaps we do not know all there is to know about your reported crimes. Even the highest of our order does not presume to be able to summon our god to do our bidding whenever we please. Such arrogance is a blatant sign of evil minds. However, we are not without means to petition beings greater than us mortals. We will thus summon a divine representative of Iomadae to act as tribunal. Make your case, and this being of pure law and good will judge you. There is no higher form any mortal can appeal to, even you. be thankful you are at least being given this chance, and face your fate with dignity and respect.
(That's a bit more like it)
~P
Okay, so this seems like a pretty complex situation you've got set up here, so I'm gonna need some more context before saying what I'd do.
In the campaign I'm DMing, there's a PC who started out as Neutral, but has slowly shifted to NG over the course of the game. He's also a necromancer, but only by the fact that he has an affinity for necromantic and negative energy spells. He hasn't raised any undead (though he has Decomposed and Recomposed a corpse or two) and he's technically only ever done one evil action (torturing a guy he'd blinded but who wasn't divulging information). He's killed an inquisitor and injured a number of others in Iomedae's service, all out of self defense.
Okay, i'd like to hear the context of how this happened. Did the inquisitor and other servants of Iomedae just attack the necromancer out of the blue?
Did he know whom they were, and did he have access to nonlethal means of defeating them?
Oh, and as a witch, his patron is (unbeknownst to the character) one of the four horseman of the apocalypse (specifically, Pestilence).
Is necromancy and/or witchcraft illegal in the land he's been peforming them in? Does anybody involved know of his patron's true nature?
He's now surrounded by inquisitors and paladins of Iomedae, under arrest, and being told he's already been tried and condemned for his crimes (necromancy, murder, defilement, and assault of a servant of the god). He claims he committed no crimes, and says that he refuses to be judged by mortals (especially those who have prejudice against simply on the grounds that he is a necromancer). He's openly declared that the only judgement he will accept would be that of Iomedae herself, and not through any of her servants.
Was the necromancer informed of his trial and chose not to attend it, or was he convicted in absentia without his knowledge? If he was not informed, I would think Iomedae would give the accused the chance to defend themselves (or have someone act as defense for them) in court.
1) Would this LG god of war and justice be bothered to be summoned for the sake of one mortal? Or would she just leave it to her priests and paladins to deal with? Would she smite him then and there for thinking he has the right to summon her?
One thing to consider here is under what context is he's made this claim of only being judged by the goddess herself. Is he doing so under a state of duress in that her servants have gone astray and he has no other choice but to call directly upon her? Or is he placing himself above mortal justice entirely (in this case, showing great hubris)?
And under what terms of surrender will the necromancer oblige? If the priests call upon a Commune spell, will he submit? Or will no measure short of the goddess appearing in person persuade the necromancer to submit?
Considering how unjust these guys are, I'd be surprised any of them still have class features. Accusing someone of crimes without evidence, and rushing to judgement based on obvious bias seems quite contrary to a 'god of justice'.
In fiction there is a classic way to be judged by the God. Trial By Combat.
His CMD is pretty poor. Just wrestle him until he uses his divine powers to cheat, then call him out on it.
Considering how unjust these guys are, I'd be surprised any of them still have class features. Accusing someone of crimes without evidence, and rushing to judgement based on obvious bias seems quite contrary to a 'god of justice'.
In a world where you can have tea with your god gathering evidence can be surprisingly quick for a group of divine spellcasters.
By the by This exists.
He could demand to be judged by the sword against injustice ability. It's as close as you can come to being judged by the goddess herself.
In the campaign I'm DMing, ....
What would be the most fun for the players? You can justify any decision you like. What do you want to happen, and what would the players enjoy happening?
I'd be tempted to say, "Alright, we'll execute you and Pharasma (or whatever god judges people after they die in your campaign world) will judge you."
I'd be tempted to say, "Alright, we'll execute you and Pharasma (or whatever god judges people after they die in your campaign world) will judge you."
That would be my initial reaction, too. Authority figures aren't generally fans of having their authority challenged. An honest authority figure would believe that s/he's doing the god's work and that you're blaspheming by challenging it. A dishonest authority figure wouldn't allow the challenge because it risks subverting it entirely.
There's also no reason to allow a "fair" judgment. "Oh, yes, I cast Commune and Iomedae said that you should have your tongue ripped out and then die slowly in a fire for disrespecting her priests."
Having said that, a genuinely dispassionate authority figure might be interested in getting to the bottom of this. But saying "piss off, I'm not going to tell YOU what happened" is not going to get the support of that figure.