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Play what makes you happy. Having a healing person around is nice, but it should not be the burdon of 1 person to keep the party alive. People should come prepared with healing potions, and maybe even a wand. Don't let people pressure you in to playing something that you do not want to.
E:FB What labrat said. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.
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If you don't want to play a healbot, you shouldn't be making yourself play a healbot, because in the end, what you want to be doing while playing is having fun, not fulfilling what you feel is an obligation. There is nearly always someone in the party that can use a wand of CLW, and the party is nearly always in a location where potions or scrolls can be bought.
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You can purchase a fully charged wand of CLW for 2pp (prestige points).
A large variety of classes are able to use said wand with out needing UMD: Alchemist, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Inquisitor, Oracle, Paladin, Ranger, and Witch
Every one of my characters has at least 1 wand of CLW. My Barbarian has 5 and a UMD of +16 (Dangerously curious trait can make UMD a class skill). I never put the onus on another player to keep my HP up.
So, my husband and I have been playing Pathfinder since it was released but only the last two weeks have we tried to get into Pathfinder Society.
The first week was more or less all right - the session seemed a little rushed but we got through it. We only survived cause someone with the party was playing a cleric.
Last week same thing, I made a cleric cause our other one left and if I had not then we would not have survived. However, I really don't want to play the heal bot every single week yet no one else seems willing to take the healer roll either.
We're going out again today and I'm trying to figure out if I should risk playing the summoner (I'd rather play) and letting the party die (probably to include my new pc) or if I should just stick with being the healbot? I'm just sort of curious if other people have had an issue with this - must we have a cleric to survive any of the scenarios? Am I doomed to be the eternal healbot?
Wands of cure-light-wounds can effectively replace a healer. Not that clerics are only heal bots.
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In addition to wands of Cure Light Wounds for out of combat healing Wand of Infernal Healing is a great item. Now you do need the Inner Sea World Guide to purchase but it does grant Fast Healing 1 for a Minute so it always restores 10 hp. It also has a great list of classes that can use it: cleric/oracle 1, magus 1, sorcerer/wizard 1, summoner 1, witch 1
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While I agree on one hand, "play what you want", on the other, that isn't always as easy as it sounds. A few questions for clarification.
Are you having an issue with playing a Cleric?
Are you having an issue playing your Cleric as a main healer, (when you would rather play them a different way)?
While it is not required to have a Cleric/healer in PFS, the truth is that it helps a great deal. Secondly, the groups playstyle and tactics also really play into this. One of the terrible thing about the Cleric class is the baggage that comes with it. Even if you do not want to be a healer, (at all), you are still able to, which other people then as an expectation from you. Even as a dark, negative energy channeler, you can still freely use wands and scrolls, for example. This leads people to play their characters a little more recklessly, (usually, not always), because they realize that death is less of a risk.
If your issue is "having" to play a Cleric, my suggestion is then to either rebuild her (them?) as a different type, or as something else entirely. BUT also inform the rest of the group well before hand, that you are not comfortable being forced into that playstyle, and offer suggestions on what you feel the other players should do to compensate, have fun, and survive.
If your issue is that despite not making a primarily healing Cleric, you are still forced into that role, then likewise, the best option is to straight-up tell the other players you are not going to be playing the "healer". You, (assuming this is true), will heal them if they drop and are about to die, will use their wands on them after a battle if needed, and things like that, but you will NOT be sitting back waiting to drop all of your spells and wasting your actions (and fun) to heal them round after round like an NPC.
Good suggestions (and this is a common thing in PFS) is to have everyone spend their first 2 PP to buy a wand of CLW for themselves, and pass it off a healer in the group. Not all to one person, if you can help it, spread it out, and keep in mind Use Magic Device, so no matter who goes down, someone should be able to help them if they need it right then, (ie they are very close to death, not just at -1 or -2 HP). Secondly, Potions of CLW are fairly cheap, and anyone that can not cast it should buy and hold on to at least two at all times. There is no point in the Cleric dying trying to cross the battle field to heal someone else, and especially when they could have healed themselves. If they choose not to, that's on them.
Dedicate your spells and powers to the things you want, and use them. Divine Favor, Bless, Command, Shield of Faith, and Protection from Evil are all great options that will see a lot of use. use them, as preventing damage from occurring in the first place is leagues ahead of healing it afterwards. Also remember that with Guidance, you can always contribute, untrained or not, so jump in with that. Detect/Read Magic are also really good other options to randomly throw out, especially right after a battle where there might be hidden dangers still around.
It may take a little bit for this idea to sink in, and give them a little time. Remember, if pressed "Hey, I could be playing a Rogue and you would still be in that situation. I told you, I am not a healer, but if things go really bad, I'll help you after the threat is over. Just like in the real world, medics do their thing after the scene is safe."
A little passive aggressive, you can also dedicate your actions to the things you want to do. For example if Bob the Fighter drops to -3HP, say:
<You>I cast Shield of Faith and start making my way to replace him, holding back the enemy so that they don't break through and surround us.
<Bob> "But wait, just step up next to me and heal me, I'll get up and kill them next round."
<You> "Nah, I'll do that. I'm a backup warrior, and it's too much a risk that I'll just waste the spell when you get hit again trying to stand up. Then we will be in the exact same place, minus one spell and potentially with you having even more damage. I got you once the fight's over. Probably shouldn't have charged in like that."
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In addition to wands of Cure Light Wounds for out of combat healing Wand of Infernal Healing is a great item. Now you do need the Inner Sea World Guide to purchase but it does grant Fast Healing 1 for a Minute so it always restores 10 hp. It also has a great list of classes that can use it: cleric/oracle 1, magus 1, sorcerer/wizard 1, summoner 1, witch 1
Best out of combat heal stick in the game.
It's also found in Gods and Magic, and Pathfinder #29:Mother of Flies
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If you would rather play your summoner, then play your summoner! You can get a wand of infernal healing, which is on the summoner spell list. Being a charisma based caster, your UMD will also be pretty nice, giving you the option of using other wands. Finally, you can have your eidolan put a rank in UMD, and then take the skilled evolution. Suddenly, you've got a really handy back up wand or scroll user.
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Being the healbot is not fun until you get the phat paychecks for being able to play up. :)
In all seriousness, the cleric is a rather defensive class. That being said, my cleric, who has a balanced build, has had some pretty glorious moments with his adamantium hammer using bulls' strength and divine favor.
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List of classes that can use a wand of cure light wounds without UMD:
Alchemist, bard, cleric, druid, inquisitor, oracle, paladin, ranger, witch.
List of classes that can use a wand of infernal healing without UMD:
Cleric, magus, oracle, sorcerer, summoner, witch, wizard.
That means there are less classes that cannot heal than classes that can. A party in organized play has a good chance of having at least one of the above classes present; however, it's a good idea to invest in UMD if you do not think healing is a sure thing in your party.
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People who claim you need a dedicated healer are usually old D&D veterans and gamers. Pathfinder solved this issue and there is no need for such classes but they are still nice to have around.
From my experience however, players learn more about pathfinder if they don't have dedicated healer. Otherwise they tend to just recklessly charge and put a strain on other player to keep those channels going.
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This is one of my biggest gripes about PFS. When a table bullies someone to do something.keep in mind bullying can be subtle. While I was DMing the table next to me had a player that acted like he knew everythign was makign demands out of the other at the table saying if they did not follow his lead they would all die. One person refused to play the pregen he demanded. Then at somepoint the battle was going against them and he fled. This caused the group to flee and the flying enemies caught and killed them all. Then he blamed that one person for not playing the pregen he asked. That player that refused I never saw again. This is an extreme form of it, but jerks can be subtle too. "If you played the cleric we would have been better off"
If they want a healer so much they can be one. There is no reason you have to give up what you want when they can do it themselves. How selfish is that? You are playign this game for fun, and if youhave to sacrifice any of it for the table, then that is selfish of the table to ask. Just sit down with what you are happy playing, and when they pressure you in any way you can tell them that they could play Kyra if they want the group to have a healer.
Never feel guilty for enjoying yourself in the game for not following someone elses commands.
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Being the healbot is not fun until you get the phat paychecks for being able to play up. :)
In all seriousness, the cleric is a rather defensive class. That being said, my cleric, who has a balanced build, has had some pretty glorious moments with his adamantium hammer using bulls' strength and divine favor.
You haven't seen some of the clerics around here if you think they are a rather defensive class....
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For your summoner, the above mentioned wand of infernal healing might be better. You can use it without making a Use Magic Device check, and it will heal 10 points of damage every time. The only downside is that it is less useful in combat than cure light wounds might be. It also costs only 2 prestige points.
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People who claim you need a dedicated healer are usually old D&D veterans and gamers. Pathfinder solved this issue and there is no need for such classes but they are still nice to have around.
From my experience however, players learn more about pathfinder if they don't have dedicated healer. Otherwise they tend to just recklessly charge and put a strain on other player to keep those channels going.
Did I ever say need? No. But the amount of healing a cleric can shell out not to mention their buffs can be a much greater force multiplier than another guy swinging a sword.
I tell people at my tables with my level 9 cleric not to be stupid. Just sit back and enjoy the buffs and play normally.
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This is one of my biggest gripes about PFS. When a table bullies someone to do something.keep in mind bullying can be subtle. While I was DMing the table next to me had a player that acted like he knew everythign was makign demands out of the other at the table saying if they did not follow his lead they would all die. One person refused to play the pregen he demanded. Then at somepoint the battle was going against them and he fled. This caused the group to flee and the flying enemies caught and killed them all. Then he blamed that one person for not playing the pregen he asked. That player that refused I never saw again. This is an extreme form of it, but jerks can be subtle too. "If you played the cleric we would have been better off"
If they want a healer so much they can be one. There is no reason you have to give up what you want when they can do it themselves. How selfish is that? You are playign this game for fun, and if youhave to sacrifice any of it for the table, then that is selfish of the table to ask. Just sit down with what you are happy playing, and when they pressure you in any way you can tell them that they could play Kyra if they want the group to have a healer.
Never feel guilty for enjoying yourself in the game for not following someone elses commands.
Yeah, that's epic fail in my book. But healing capacity is something I take into account big time if there are playing up/playing down questions.
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For your summoner, the above mentioned wand of infernal healing might be better. You can use it without making a Use Magic Device check, and it will heal 10 points of damage every time. The only downside is that it is less useful in combat than cure light wounds might be. It also costs only 2 prestige points.
Its also 10 points of healing over a minute. Minute per level buffs go away pretty quickly if Infernal Healing is your healing of choice.
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That is definitely true. I also worry about the aggregate time needed to heal at the higher levels. My barb has 180+ hp. That could be as much as 18 min of healing time between combats. When you are talking that much time, you may end up loosing those nice 10min/lvl buffs that can last entire scenarios.
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Aura,
Good luck with everything. I much prefer a battle that was hard fought that my character barely survived.
I do have one character. a chelaxian infernal summoner, who has the Infernal healing spell.
In one scenario, we found my character was the only character with any kind of healing. We were all 1st level.
My character would only cast an infernal healing spell on a character, if he signed a contract. A thumb mark would do, and of course, there was plenty of "ink" leaking on the floor. Asmodeus's healing doesn't come for free after all. I think I creeped a few players out at the table. I remember another player said " not thats how a Chelaxian should be played".
I can't quite say "good times'....but we did have fun.
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For your summoner, the above mentioned wand of infernal healing might be better. You can use it without making a Use Magic Device check, and it will heal 10 points of damage every time. The only downside is that it is less useful in combat than cure light wounds might be. It also costs only 2 prestige points.
Doesn't work on the Eidolon.
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Aura,
Good luck with everything. I much prefer a battle that was hard fought that my character barely survived.I do have one character. a chelaxian infernal summoner, who has the Infernal healing spell.
In one scenario, we found my character was the only character with any kind of healing. We were all 1st level.
My character would only cast an infernal healing spell on a character, if he signed a contract. A thumb mark would do, and of course, there was plenty of "ink" leaking on the floor. Asmodeus's healing doesn't come for free after all. I think I creeped a few players out at the table. I remember another player said " not thats how a Chelaxian should be played".
I can't quite say "good times'....but we did have fun.
At lvl 1, you sometimes end up being the person with the heal stick and no one else having 1 because they are band new characters. It sucks but I would rather use some charges than die.
Besides the obvious image issues (500 lb elf covered in tattoos, blood, and leeches), he drinks the blood of a variety of creatures and uses it for ink as well. Every scenario starts with a contract written in the blood of outsiders. It covers all the basics: All the typical PFS stuff (explore, report, cooperate) plus some other stuff (healing from me requires being covered in outsider blood, don't freak out when I summon a demon/devil, do not freak out when I harvest blood/drink it, all prisoners are to sold at the slave markets in Cheliax, all bodies will be sold in the markets of Kaer Maga).
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For your summoner, the above mentioned wand of infernal healing might be better. You can use it without making a Use Magic Device check, and it will heal 10 points of damage every time. The only downside is that it is less useful in combat than cure light wounds might be. It also costs only 2 prestige points.Doesn't work on the Eidolon.
Neither does cure light wounds then?
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Neither does cure light wounds then?For your summoner, the above mentioned wand of infernal healing might be better. You can use it without making a Use Magic Device check, and it will heal 10 points of damage every time. The only downside is that it is less useful in combat than cure light wounds might be. It also costs only 2 prestige points.Doesn't work on the Eidolon.
'
Infernal Healing grants Fast Healing which counts as natural healing. Thus it does not stop bleed effects and cannot heal an eidolon because they do not benefit from natural healing. CLW on the other hand is magical healing and thus would stop bleed effects and heal and eidolon.
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With the direction PFS is going and with Season 5, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Infernal Healing suffers some huge restrictions, or possibly gets banned. I doubt it will get banned, but I will be pretty disappointed if the people around the Worldwound/Mendev area just turn a blind eye to that sort of magic, not "actually" evil or not.
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No, they are actually right. I didn't realize that, but from the Summoner (APG pg55) "The only exception to this is if the eidolon was slain, in which case it returns with half its normal hit
points. The eidolon does not heal naturally."
and from the Bestiary (pg 300) "Fast Healing (Ex) A creature with the fast healing special quality regains hit points at an exceptional rate, usually 1 or more hit points per round, as given in the creature’s entry. Except where noted here, fast healing is just like natural healing. Fast healing does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation, nor does it allow a creature to regrow lost body parts. Unless otherwise stated, it does not allow lost body parts to be reattached. Fast healing continues to function (even at negative hit points) until a creature dies, at which point the effects of fast healing end immediately.
Format: fast healing 5; Location: hp."
So Fast Healing, and thus Infernal Healing do NOT affect the Eidolon. It can target them, and goes off, it just doesn't do anything but make them an evil Outsider.
As for the Eidolon ability, there are two possibilities, and someone probably didn't think about this. 1.) it doesn't work 2.) it is the single special case that overturns the normal rule. I'd probably go with one, myself.
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We diverged a little from the main topic here. Let us not get into a rules discussion within this thread. There can be other threads for that.
"Devil's Advocate"- That is not at all likely to happen.
David- the main talking points of this thread is focusing on healing within a party, not specifically on the summoners Eidolon. Lets get back to the main subject and not further derail this thread.
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It's pretty simple. If you don't have a class that has some level-scaled healing, then you are counting on getting past every encounter with just a single hp pool for each PC and healing up afterwards. It definitely makes things a lot harder, especially when the group does not have the option to play down.
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People who claim you need a dedicated healer are usually old D&D veterans and gamers. Pathfinder solved this issue and there is no need for such classes but they are still nice to have around.
From my experience however, players learn more about pathfinder if they don't have dedicated healer. Otherwise they tend to just recklessly charge and put a strain on other player to keep those channels going.
Did I ever say need? No. But the amount of healing a cleric can shell out not to mention their buffs can be a much greater force multiplier than another guy swinging a sword.
I tell people at my tables with my level 9 cleric not to be stupid. Just sit back and enjoy the buffs and play normally.
I was talking to the creator of the topic.
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It sounds like summoner may be the perfect fit for you. A lot of people think summoners are overpowered because they break the action economy, but for you it would just mean being able to do what you want to do and what the party wants you to do in the same round.
I can feel you about not wanting to waste your turns healing people, it is pretty boring to just clean up after other people, I have found myself doing this a few times just owning a cure wand and being able to use it; some times you feel obligated to.
You shouldn't have this problem as much as a summoner since you get two actions a round, but if you are playing something that is more limited in action economy, Infernal Healing will definitely be more of your friend to let you keep trucking through the scenario but not have to waste your actions. Because it takes so long to give its full benefit, no one will be upset about you not wasting your action to use it on them in combat. Also as others have said, it is a bit more economical than Cure Light in HP to PP or HP to gold.
Both spells will work on your Eidilon as well, the evolution for fast healing even makes a firmer comparison to natural healing than entry for fast healing does and I don't think anyone would argue that the evolution doesn't work.
Since you have been playing outside of PFS a while you probably know this but just in case the summoner is new to you also, taking the elemental languages can be a huge help, especially Auran. It can turn your elementals into utility vehicles when you run into an unexpected bind. The positive energy elemental is also another way of getting some emergency healing while leaving the dedicated healer at home.
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Summoners don't break action economy because the summoner itself is not that strong of a PC. They have a few tricks and buffs, but nothing major. They can not summon more creatures while the eidolon is out. Don't feel guilty for playing a summoner. They are good, but not even in the realm of broken.
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Summoners don't break action economy because the summoner itself is not that strong of a PC. They have a few tricks and buffs, but nothing major. They can not summon more creatures while the eidolon is out. Don't feel guilty for playing a summoner. They are good, but not even in the realm of broken.
I don't think they are overpowered either. I also haven't seen anyone in actual games complaining about them, but on the boards I have seen it quite a bit. I actually spend a lot of my turns as a summoner not taking any standard actions (yes I know I could shoot a crossbow or something if I don't have any spells I want to cast, but sometimes I would rather not eat table time when my Eidilon is already cranking out far more damage than I would ever think about.)