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Ok, I love the whole concept of the Master Summoner. The whole mental image of burying your opponent in piles-o-monsters just appeals to me! However, we have a large number of players in my home group and already have problems with combat moving too slow. I am not going to slow it down more with scads of demonic/elemental/bestial summoned creatures. If I ever find myself in a small home group I would love to try a Master Summoner.
I also play in PFS events. But PFS doesn’t allow the Master Summoner archtype. In fact I believe that the only summoner archtype allowed is the Evolutionist. Which actually probably a power drop from the base summoner but allows more versatility/customization of the edilon.
I have also heard comments both in PFS and home games about summoners stealing the spotlight from nearly everyone else in the party (except maybe archers or primary casters). I am not saying that is a legit complaint (please don’t start that argument in this thread), but the attitude is definitely out there and will have to be dealt with if I play a summoner.
So here is what I was thinking:
Race - Halfling so I can ride a medium edilon and give more skill points to the edilon (though I really like the extra evolution points of the half-elf)
Archtype -take the Evolutionist so that if I really screw up the edilon it is easier to change it more often
Edilon – quad so I can ride it and evolutions to scout and survive (note after a few levels, if we don’t have a melee PC in the group the evolutionist would allow me to rebuild it more for combat tank role)
Combat – dismiss the edilon, use a singleton summoned monster for fighting, and buff spells to contribute (yes, I intend to have a printed monster card for anything I summon so I won’t make them wait for me to look it up)
Out of Combat – a few face skills and scouting/guarding with the edilon
My thoughts for this are:
I won’t be a melee monster pair with the edilon stealing the shtick from all the druid/martial characters.
If the table does not have a melee PC, the edilon can tank at least a little bit without getting a PC killed.
If there is a rogue/monk/ranger scout with the group, I will ride the edilon which will help me keep up and survive.
Combat will primarily be a summoned monster with a few buffs so shouldn’t slow things up more than any other PC.
Decent charisma should allow me to be a fairly acceptable Face for negotiations.
So what do you think? Have you seen it in use or tried it yourself before? Effective enough to be welcome at your table? Or is this doomed to failure?
If enough people think the concept is acceptable, I will start to flesh it out as a build.
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I thought up something similar a while back, but Summoners are so despised in my area that I abandoned the idea. I already have a Gunslinger and a Magus, no reason to poke the bear in the eye.
It sounds fun. Have you thought of what you want your Eidolon to look like? If you can make a tent for it people might like it more. Give it a face of its own.
My only suggestion if you plan on summoning a lot is to make up a chart to speed up play. I made a chart for my Druid that lists all 1st-6th level summons and their AC, HP, Attack bonuses, Damage, and a quick blurb on special qualities like grapple modifiers for grapplers, poison DCs, Fly skills, etc. When it's not my turn I scan over the Bestiary for anything else that might come up, like saves or CMD, but the chart will handle most combats. It's worked well so far.
For PbP I don't really see the summoner lagging the game behind, and if you do like what Nefreet does like keeping the blurbs easily read by GM's then I don't think it would hurt.
For tables, I've played with a couple of my friends who waits for their turn then think what they're going to do. It takes them more time than the other one who played a summoner but when it was his turn, he already planned everything beforehand so it goes smooth. Although his eidolon acts on his initiative.
From my experience, out of combat usually the party face shines, in combat, who has the best rolls shine lol
Or just roleplay that you and your eidolon are the same and can't share the same realm, like greed and the prince in Fullmetal Alchemist.
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I thought up something similar a while back, but Summoners are so despised in my area that I abandoned the idea. I already have a Gunslinger and a Magus, no reason to poke the bear in the eye.
It sounds fun. Have you thought of what you want your Eidolon to look like? If you can make a tent for it people might like it more. Give it a face of its own.
My only suggestion if you plan on summoning a lot is to make up a chart to speed up play...
Summoners aren't quite despised in my area, more viewed with suspicion. But I don't want to make the situation worse.
I was thinking to make it look like a big ferret. A halfling riding a ferret just seems funny to me for some reason.
A while ago I got a file of all the standard summoned monsters. So I have a seperate sheet for each one. Pretty easy to keep track of that way.
For PbP I don't really see the summoner lagging the game behind, and if you do like what Nefreet does like keeping the blurbs easily read by GM's then I don't think it would hurt.
For tables, I've played with a couple of my friends who waits for their turn then think what they're going to do. It takes them more time than the other one who played a summoner but when it was his turn, he already planned everything beforehand so it goes smooth. Although his eidolon acts on his initiative.
From my experience, out of combat usually the party face shines, in combat, who has the best rolls shine lol
Or just roleplay that you and your eidolon are the same and can't share the same realm, like greed and the prince in Fullmetal Alchemist.
PFS not PbP. I agree that in PbP it wouldn't be a problem.
I agree that it doesn't always have to slow things down. But a while ago we had 6 players, NPC tag-a-long, familiar, animal companion, paladin mount, allied spirit, and a wizard that was summoning elementals. None of us were all that organized and things just ground to a halt. We made an agreement to keep 'extra figures' down to a minimum.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'can't share the same realm.' I haven't seen Fullmetal Alchemist.
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So maybe something like this.
Race: Halfling with the Outrider alternate racial trait replacing surefooted (+2 bonus on Handle Animal and Ride checks)
Ability Scores: Str 5(7-2), Dex 16(14+2), Con 14, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 16
Class/Archtype: Summoner/Evolutionist
Alignment: Neutral Neutral
Faction: Grand Lodge
Traits: GL-Obervant (perception +1 and class skill) and either history of heresy (+1 save vs divine spells) or gifted adept (+1 caster level for 1 spell maybe haste)
Favored class bonus will always be the +1 skill point for the edilon
Feats:
1 spell focus conjuration
3 augment summoning
5 defending eidolon
7 superior summoning
9 combat casting
11 uncanny concentration
I will work on the spell lists and the eidolon build tomorrow.
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The key is to understand what's needed at the table.
Do as much as you need to, not as much as you can. It's ok to have your Summner oysters all attack, while your Summoner stands around.
If you find yourself in a party with a lot of fighters, use fewer summons, and cast enlarge person and haste on them let them shine.
If you can remember to make sure everyone gets some spotlight time, Summner works well.