Ninja vs. Rogue, what do you prefer?

[Immortal Greed]

Icyshadow wrote:

It's just a label, Macona. You can play a Rogue / Wizard hybrid character but use the Ninja's stats for the concept.

Really, the generalization of "weeaboo" is as bad as the people who assume a Barbarian is ALWAYS a viking or a hun or a ...

Yep.

I took a Mongolian ninja for kingmaker. Best character of the year.

Does he fit in fantasy? Does Subotai fit in Conan?

[BigNorseWolf]

Ninja. Vanishing trick and ki for extra attacks blows the standard rogue out of the water. Don't like ninja? File off "ki" write in "penache" and you're done. My ninja tend towards giant pimp hats with feathers.

[FrankManic]

Gonn wrote:

I like the ninja better. Now if only we could get a race of humanoid turtles... ;)

Adolescent Deviant Ninja Tortoise

Size M creature

+1 Con

-1 Wis

+3 Natural Armor

Normal Speed: Speed 30 feet

Turtles in a Half-Shell: +3 Natural Armor. Can "Duck" to gain +1 AC during total defense or defensive fighting. Gains no benefit from light or medium armor

Master Splinter: +4 to all diplomacy rolls with ratfolk, ratmen, wererats, ratweres, and other rat-like humanoids.

KOWABUNGA DUDES!: May add +1 to the result of a Combat Maneuver roll if they yell something radical while they make the roll.

Weapon Familiarity: Quarterstaff, Nunchucks, Katana, Sai, Skateboard

Languages: Adolescent Deviant Ninja Tortoises begin play speaking Common and Surfer.

[DM_aka_Dudemeister]

TOZ wrote:

Ninjas rule!

Rogues drool!

I would like to refer you to the case of Rubber v. Glue.

[memorax]

I prefer Ninjas overall. Better class abilites and imo generally better at what the rogue does. The name never bothered me at all. In a world where dragon the size of jumbo jets can fly and find enough food to survive adding ninja really should not be that much of a stretch.

[Atarlost]

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

TOZ wrote:

Ninjas rule!

Rogues drool!

I would like to refer you to the case of Rubber v. Glue.

Glue dries hard. Rubber is sticky and pretty much useless without the vulcanization alchemist discovery. (It will be in the Ultimate Industrialization sourcebook.)

[Zhayne]

memorax wrote:

I prefer Ninjas overall. Better class abilites and imo generally better at what the rogue does. The name never bothered me at all. In a world where dragon the size of jumbo jets can fly and find enough food to survive adding ninja really should not be that much of a stretch.

And, of course, you can just change the name to 'mystic rogue' or something.

[Immortal Greed]

The Shadow!

[TheLoneCleric]

I prefer a mix of both actually. I'd like it if they ever did a Pathfinder 2.0 or revised edition they just fold the ninja into the Rogue class. So many good mixed hybrid ideas there.

[BigNorseWolf]

Immortal Greed wrote:

The Shadow!

the SHADOW???

[Omnitricks]

I'd say rogues since I like playing rogues but for combat, ninjas get everything that rogues do, and ki abilities, and rogue advanced talents (why the hell do rogues not get access to master tricks? That doesn't make any sense!)

However rogues get archetypes. Trapfinding while undervalued also allows you to disable magical traps (and if you really want, turn it against your opponents) Also Master strike! (if you ever reach that level) Better than assassinate because you can still take people in alive (frankly I found taking enemies alive if possible can help in the long run) while being based on INT. And if you're playing a rogue, you'd best be a skill monkey.

[insaneogeddon]

Starbuck_II wrote:

insaneogeddon wrote:

Matthew Downie wrote:

insaneogeddon wrote:

[If you don't want trap-finding and just want damage you cannot beat a rogue.

You can with a Fighter, Ranger, Alchemist, Paladin, Barbarian, Zen Archer or Inquisitor...

Exactly ... not ninja. In the context of ninja vs rogue.

think you will find the hasted, 2 weapon knife master with flank feats will be getting 8 attacks at +10d8. Thats equivocal.

Nope, because other rogues and Barbarians exist with improved uncanny dodge by then.

lol How many rogues and barbarians are there in the second half of any adventure path? If your that blessed and aren't fighting outsiders and dragons you could get along just fine with a commoner.

If somehow plagued by rogues and barbarians 'because they exist' try targeting the other people they are with!

Anti magic of some description and anti ranged attacks (wind) are probably more common then rogues and barbarians at high levels against genius intellect casters so you still have the advantage over many of the other classes listed above.

[MyTThor]

KEVIN HELMES wrote:

Starbuck_II wrote:

Shadowdweller wrote:

Rogue. Because Ninjas can't do the archtypes.

Which archetypes?

It can do 50% of them.

It can't do archetypes since Ninja is a more detailed archetype for Rogue then the others archetypes are.

That logic leads to the opposite conclusion from the one you are reaching. Archetypes can be mixed with other archetypes. So if you consider an alternate class an archetype, why wouldn't you be able to take an archetype?

[Kttank]

Both, for me, lol. It all depends on the character concept I'm going for, and what abilities, skills, etc. I want. I did have a level 12 whisper gnome ninja back when ninja was being beta'd (we where using both 3.5 and PF for sources in that game) and loved pretending to be a gnome playright dressed as a pimp, with a MW light mace that was styled like a fancy cane.

Current game I'm in I'm playing a bard 1/ rogue 5/ assassin 6, or some such, where the rogue was a step into assassin. But I have played rogue a few times, as I'm a skill ho, and like the options I've always had with rogues.

[Threeshades]

I don't see much of a difference between rogues and ninjas. Since they both get access to each other's tricks/talents. A rogue can even get a ninja ki-pool and abilities via a talent.
Ninjas still come out slightly on top, sure, but its not massive, and in the grand scheme, when in combat, they are both only as good as the sneak attacks they can get in successfully. Which is kind of limited.

[Psyren]

Kolokotroni wrote:

why choose? use the super genius games talented rogue

Is this on the PFSRD? All I can find are shop pages. I'd like to know what I'm in for before I shell out.

Threeshades wrote:

I don't see much of a difference between rogues and ninjas. Since they both get access to each other's tricks/talents. A rogue can even get a ninja ki-pool and abilities via a talent.

That's just it though - the Rogue has to pay a talent tax to get a ki pool to use many of the ninja tricks, but the ninja trick doesn't have to pay anything to get the rogue talents.

Anyway what my group did for the guy who wanted to play rogue was simply make him a ninja and give him Trapfinding for free. Pure skillmonkeys are pretty bad off in PF without Factotum or Psychic Rogue.