a question about familiar levels stacking

[gourry187]

Can familiar levels stack above character level?

Example being a character who gains a familiar via eldritch heritage has an effective wizard level of CL-2. If he has 3 levels of wizard (or witch), would his familiar effective level (via table) be CL-2 + 3 ?

[Pendin Fust]

Eldritch Heritage is for sorceror's...you have to have the bloodline class ability. A wizard or witch couldn't take this?

[Booksy]

@ Pundin Fust - Eldritch Heritage is for everyone. It grants a character access to a bloodline power(s, if you go further down the feat chain). You do need Skill Focus in the associated bloodline ability, and you cannot already have the bloodline in question.

Arcane Bloodline's first power Arcane Bond states Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object.

So, in your example a 3rd level wizard - who must have an archetype that has no arcane bond - can gain one with Eldritch Heritage: Arcane -Effective Wizard Level as granted by EHA is 1. Since his wizard level doesn't grant a familiar, it doesn't add to his total. EH only adds to the benefits provided by EH, so if he has a familiar from another source its a wasted feat (unless its being taken to qualify for further bloodline powers)

In regards to Effective Wizard Level exceeding the character level, the section on Familiars states All familiars have special abilities (or impart abilities to their masters) depending on the master's combined level in classes that grant familiars emphasis mine.

So, if a player finds a way to combine things so they have multiple sources of class levels, and it exceeds their character level, theoretically the familiar can gain benefits exceeding his master's character level. Keep in mind the Familiar Ability table does not go past level 20, so RAW you can't exceed this maximum.

As a houserule, I have never seen an Animal Companion, Familiar, Cohort etc exceed a characters character level. It has always seemed silly that your 'sidekick' could become more powerful then yourself.

[gourry187]

@bookshop - where does it say that you must have a wizard archetype with no familiar bond? I would think that because it States in the bloodlines section that it stacks with wizard, it is implied you can have a wizard with an arcane bond and the bloodlines power.

The question isn't so much do they stack, the question is if the abilities of familiar cap at character level.

[gourry187]

Ugh! Sorry booksy, autocorrect has done you wrong above

[CalethosVB]

Quick education: Your familiar's abilities are based on its master's hit dice that come from all arcane spellcasting classes. Your familiar can reasonably have more hit dice than you, but it only gains abilities based on your own hit dice. And regardless of its own hit dice, it always, ALWAYS has hit points equal to half its master's total HP.

[FrodoOf9Fingers]

If the master's level is based on class levels and not hit dice (I believe that would be the case, would a level 1 wizard level 19 monk have the familiar abilities of a level 20 wizard? My point of view is further supported by the graph which tells you when abilities become available, which is based on class levels.) then all of the familiars abilities would be benefited by stacking the familiar levels from two classes. That includes:

Natural Armor (capped at +10, unless your DM will allow a continuation of the graph)
Intelligence (capped at 15, unless your DM allows a continuation of the graph)
Spell Resistence (no cap, as it's not limited by the graph but by an equation: Master's level + 5)

It probably does not effect abilities requiring hit dice, because that's based on your character level, not your class level.

A level twenty wizard with eldritch heritage:Arcane will have a familiar that gains:

+19 natural armor (or capped at +10, see above)
24 intelligence (or capped at 15, see above)
Spell Resistance of 43 (20(wizard) + 18(eldritch heritage) + 5)

Now, thats a pretty formidable defense, an Azata familiar would have:

DR 5/evil
resist fire and cold 10
35 AC
SR 43
Intelligence 24

Thats all natural. There are other familiars that include fast healing, but I like Azata because it flies and it can wear armor (humanoid, but with wings). Not proficient, but it can still do it. Call it, your mage distracter that will be very hard to kill, and most likely ignored.

Other familiars have better natural defenses. But you get the point.

[Booksy]

Ah, I must've sneezed on reading - nix anything I said about alternate archetypes. Looks like your example would have a 3rd Level Wizard with an EWL of 4 (Wizard 3 + EWL 1 from EH:A).

Double check FrodoOf9Fingers, he's done the math for you, assuming your GM allows your EWL to exceed your character level.