I've loved the Cloistered Cleric since its introduction in 3.5e, but I just don't most of what the PF version offers. I'm not looking to get into a huge debate here about its viability here, because that's not the reason of this post. I'm posting this because I'm planning on playing a CC in an upcoming campaign, and the GM has basically given me full reign to tailor it to my liking as long as there's some semblance of balance. However, I'm running a bit dry on some features that could be included here, so I'm looking for suggestion.
I'm planning on giving this CC the following, despite some of it being a bit counter-intuitive; I'll explain my reasons why I'm choosing certain features as I list them.
- 4+Int skill points/level (I'm not bumping it to 6+Int because I haven't noticed another archetype going beyond a ±2 skill point difference per level)
- Weapon/armor proficiencies are unchanged (I might look to include proficiency with the deity's favored weapon, but that seems to go against the noncombatant flavor here)
- BAB and HD are unchanged (no archetype as of yet has changed these things compared to the base class, so I'm not changing it either)
- Channeling increasing by 1d6 starting at 4th level and every 3 thereafter (I'm not big on channeling and I see no reason why the CC can't suffer this loss)
- Same class skills and Breadth of Knowledge (always been one of my favorite class features)
- Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat
- Domains and spellcasting abilities exactly the same as the base Cleric (if it's gonna be worse at combat, this is the least I can do; I might be willing to drop one domain if necessary)
New or modified class features pose a problem here, as I can't think of what might mesh with the class features that are given up. It may also be because I have a number of ideas already and can't decide on what to use.
Mainly, I want a bit of Int dependency here. Yes, I know that makes the class even more MAD, but we've already got less channeling power here, so it's lightening the necessity for Cha to an extent. That, and the Int bonus wouldn't be applied towards anything major.
I like the idea of adding Int bonus when fighting defensively, casting defensively, using total defense, or Combat Expertise, but that suggests the CC should actually be on the front lines. Int to initiative would be nice, and not necessarily OP because of less Int investment.
I also considered something similar to the Archivist Bard's Naturalist ability, granting certain bonuses once a specific enemy type is identified. Something like X insight bonus to AC, attack rolls, and saving throws increasing every X levels, which uses a move action to grant to all allies within 30 feet and lasts as long as the CC's Int bonus. Borrowing a bit from the Ranger's bond with his companions for that idea. Does it make sense for this to replace anything I've listed?
I'm not opposed to keeping Verbal Instruction, though it is a bit lacking. Would it be OP to remove the restriction on the number of allies it can affect as long as they're within 30 feet, and giving it the benefits of a normal Aid Another check? Maybe the bonus could even increase every X levels? I like the idea of increasing allies' skill checks, but could it be implemented better?
And then I thought, since the archetype gets Scribe Scroll for free, why not give it some scroll-related tricks? Maybe like not provoking AoOs for taking out a scroll, Quick Draw for scrolls, or maybe applying metamagic feats to scroll spells as a full-round action 3+Int (or just Int) times/day? Again, that might be too much to replace proficiency with medium armor, shields, and most weapon proficiencies.
As you can probably see, it's really more a matter of balance than a lack of ideas. I obviously can't include all of these features at the expense of less combat/channeling ability, so I welcome opinions from someone more experienced in building balanced archetypes than I am. Or opinions from anybody, for that matter. Thanks!
Have you looked at the 3rd party Priest? You can find it on pfsrd
I've looked at it and honestly? I don't like it. Yes, it fits the "studious divine caster" image I'm going for (especially with the free Knowledge domain), but I honestly don't like the design. It seems like an obvious port from 3.5e, not even changing the number of spell slots to match that of the standard PF Cleric. The spontaneous domain spell casting, extra domain spell slot, and d8 channeling die also seem like a "different but not really" approach to me, with little care for balance.
This is why I'm hesitant to use 3rd party material, despite asking for advice on house-ruling an existing archetype. I guess there's no shame in editing out what I don't like. Thanks for the suggestion!
The pathfinder cleric is pretty poor when it comes to class features, not sure what would be worth trading out. I actually loved the cloistered cleric variant from 3.5, but the cloistered cleric archetype in pathfinder is awful(Diminished spell casting and you lose a domain, and you lose profiencies. Its not even a caster or skill monkey!).
Your changes look like you just traded channeling to get 2 more skill points per level and breadth of knowledge and scribe scroll. Sounds a little overpowered when you look at it like that doesn't it? I wouldn't use other archetypes as a base for things if your doing homebrew, your allowed to go out of your way to try new things in a homegame if your DM allows.
The pathfinder cleric is pretty poor when it comes to class features, not sure what would be worth trading out. I actually loved the cloistered cleric variant from 3.5, but the cloistered cleric archetype in pathfinder is awful(Diminished spell casting and you lose a domain, and you lose profiencies. Its not even a caster or skill monkey!).
Your changes look like you just traded channeling to get 2 more skill points per level and breadth of knowledge and scribe scroll. Sounds a little overpowered when you look at it like that doesn't it? I wouldn't use other archetypes as a base for things if your doing homebrew, your allowed to go out of your way to try new things in a homegame if your DM allows.
It would help if I paid attention to what I actually wrote, because you're right in the way it sounded. By "Weapon/armor proficiencies are unchanged", I meant that it was proficient with light armor, no shields, and with the same 5 weapons; unchanged from the PF Cloistered Cleric. I just wrote it wrong, especially compared to the rest of the description. Sorry for the confusion.
I agree about the lack of things for a PF Cleric to replace for archetypes. I've noticed that basically all Cleric archetypes drop a domain, or at least the 1st- or 8th-level domain power (despite not all domains having an 8th-level power, leaving the question of what would happen if a Cleric with, say, the Water and Animal domains took one of those archetypes). Is it really the only decent thing to replace, though, besides some channeling power?
Aura, channel energy, domains, spell casting, spontaneous casting, and proficiencies are the only class features a cleric has. I think its extremely poor, and I wish they would've done more with them myself. Their big power is casting though, which isn't something you want to give up(which is why the cloistered cleric archetype is awful.)
I'd say you could give up all your channeling for the archetype if you want a feel for the old 3.5 cleric, channeling didn't exist then and in pathfinder it doesn't scale that well anyway.
Aura, channel energy, domains, spell casting, spontaneous casting, and proficiencies are the only class features a cleric has. I think its extremely poor, and I wish they would've done more with them myself. Their big power is casting though, which isn't something you want to give up(which is why the cloistered cleric archetype is awful.)
I'd say you could give up all your channeling for the archetype if you want a feel for the old 3.5 cleric, channeling didn't exist then and in pathfinder it doesn't scale that well anyway.
It really does match the feel for the 3.5 CC, and I have felt like two class features that spontaneously heal or inflict damage is somewhat redundant, but what justification is there flavor-wise for no channeling? Though I admit my suggestion for diminished channeling wasn't much better. I'd sooner say giving up spontaneous casting makes more sense, as it would mean the CC has a more studious or deliberate approach to magic and can't just switch something out on the fly...or something like that. Truth be told, dropping channeling does fit if I want to incorporate some kind of Int-based bonuses. I guess anything can be made to fit a certain flavor, plus nobody is demanding a logical explanation regarding homebrew stuff.
Converting the 3.5e Cloistered Cleric to Pathfinder isn't what I'm looking for. In doing so, I might as well be creating a new class, and in that case I'd be sorely tempted to give it new class features too. I guess the bottom line is that it's not a creative enough solution to be satisfy me.
I guess my real point is, what could turn a Cleric who loses medium armor, shields, most weapon selection, channeling (decided I can part with it, especially if it's getting more INT dependency rather than CHA), whatever else I can be coaxed into giving up, but gains Scribe Scroll, more skill points, and I-can't-believe-it's-not-Bardic-Knowledge into a better caster/skillmonkey in a way that's both balanced and believeable?