I have an 11th level Summoner in a home-brew Brithright campaign with a Leadership Score of 20 - the skill bonuses my character's followers possess have a very real impact on some of the campaign's features (guilds, regency, realm actions, etc.). Been scouring the boards for a while and still unsure about the way PC classes (Fighter, Wizard, etc.) stack up against NPC classes (Expert, Aristocrat, etc.) for the "level" qualifier for followers.
Specific example - if I wanted my character's 1st-level followers (50 of them, as specified by "Number of Followers by Level" in the Leadership feat)to be guard-types, are they the same "level" if they're either a Warrior 1 or a Fighter 1? Or is the "level" qualifier determined the same way as CR, where an it takes several NPC "levels" to equal that of a single PC class? Thanks!
The Leadership feat could be move clear on this but here is what I believe it means.
When it says Cohorts are NPCs with class levels they mean 'PC class levels'.
When it says Followers are NPCs that means you use the NPC section of the book. Ie: no 'PC class levels'.
A cohort is generally an NPC with class levels, while followers are typically lower level NPCs.
So to answer your question: 50 guard types are all Warriors and not Fighters.
Also, if you give all NPCs PC class levels that increases their Ability Scores, Wealth, and starting Hitpoints. Followers were not intended to be that buff.
- Gauss
In think in the old 3rd Edition PHB, it was explicitly only NPC classes for followers. 3.5e removed that sentence, but didn't replace it with anything.
followers with PC classes? hardly a problem. i'd rather the followers have PC classes. makes sense in many of the more dangerous settings in most WotC works, and makes sense period.
it you are going to be working under a highly dangerous individual, you too, would be required to live a similarly dangerous lifestyle, because you are bound to be under attack on a regular basis due to your patron's reputation.
I was excited to see that someone is playing Birthright with the Pathfinder rules!
If I was running Birthright in any 3.x and beyond game, I would be sure and figure out a way to have your PC's bloodline score affect his Leadership score.
Yeah Birthright is great! We've had the same thoughts about recency, bloodlines, leadership, etc. For a setting that focuses so heavily on rulership, realm actions, and large-scale battles, the Leadership feat is a pretty common choice for our PCs, and doesn't seem to present as many headaches as so many folks have expressed on other threads.
Speaking of Birthright, is there a section of the site devoted to threads on older "legacy" meets home-brew campaigns? (I read posts here often, but rarely contribute myself).
The Conversions forum might be the place.
The Conversions forum might be the place.
Kewl - thanks!
And thanks for the suggestions, btw - all helpful. It seems that a lot of interpretations (including some of my past campaigns) would say an Expert (2) would be about the same as a Bard (1) for a 1st level follower.
STILL, I would love to understand the way this plays out in a RAW way, or at least the way they were intended if it's never been clarified - I'll try to be more explicit.
***At the heart of my question is this whole CR vs. Level thing:***
An NPC class (Warrior "1") is a different CR than a PC class (Fighter "1")
Is the "1" for both those classes the "level"?
And is that "level" the piece that defines a follower under the "Leadership" feat?
Let me know if I'm still being a bit unclear!
Warrior 1 and Fighter 1 is the common way to list a 1st level warrior and a 1st level fighter. It's used all over the books.
A first level warrior is CR 1/3, a first level fighter CR 1/2.
Since the Leadership feat in Pathfinder seems to want to say that followers can only have NPC classes (the feat was always badly written and it got worse over time), I would read the chart that the number applies to the actual amount of levels a character has. So when it says 1st level followers, it means adepts, aristocrats, commoners, experts, or warrior with 1 level.
Warrior 1 and Fighter 1 is the common way to list a 1st level warrior and a 1st level fighter. It's used all over the books.
A first level warrior is CR 1/3, a first level fighter CR 1/2.
Since the Leadership feat in Pathfinder seems to want to say that followers can only have NPC classes (the feat was always badly written and it got worse over time), I would read the chart that the number applies to the actual amount of levels a character has. So when it says 1st level followers, it means adepts, aristocrats, commoners, experts, or warrior with 1 level.
Ha! Yeah, the first line of your reply I get - though thanks for spelling it out to make sure I wasn't a total noob to the game :-) And you last line is how I'd interpret it as well.
Curious - given how much confusion there is about the feat, and the wildly different interpretations there are out there, why has there been no official ruling or clarification about it? Is there a way to request that?
Honestly I use CR-1 instead of level for leadership anyway because it allows more customization and allows you to have more exotic allies, such as if you want your ranger to have a unicorn mount or something.
It does mean that NPC classed characters tend to be meatshields (due to their +2 NPC levels / CR) but given that such characters only get NPC gear (which is level = CR according to the Bestiary) it works out pretty nicely. It does make it obvious how pointless Fighters are though since an NPC warrior is strictly better than a Fighter pound for pound.