Best AoMF for an Animal companion

[Undone]

Not having played much high level pathfinder I'm curious about what Amulet of mighty fists would work best for an druids animal companion (Big cat lion named Mufasa). As such GMW will be providing the enhancement bonus. This mostly comes down to which ones are best. I'm fairly sure holy is just the cream of the crop on damage but I could be wrong.

My initial thought's was that waiting until ~level 7 for Holy which would allow him to bypass most DR would be best.

Then I realized I've not yet encountered any serious DR (Alright skeletons /zombies but that really doesn't count) and am unsure how much value Holy will have in breaking DR.

The other options would be any two of these

Keen - All 5 attacks (On a pounce) crit 5% more often

Vicious - 10d6 vs everything but mufasa takes 5d6

Shock - Powerful and good vs a number of targets but likely to be resisted by a large number of targets likely the best elemental damage.

Merciful - Good for interrogation, unsure if I can suppress it on my AC (Command word Garfarblewargble) vs undead seems to have a neat "Can't kill Mufasa with vicious" interaction.

Spell storing - Be it Entangle, Burst of radiance, poison (The spell)

I must admit I wish I could use greyflame for it (As it's awesome) but sadly that's not the case.

[Hairy Pat]

Holy is +2. So unless you plan on shelling out ~20,000gp that's a bad idea.

20k is a massive amount of your total wealth earned in a career.

I'd suggest Menacing. One of our players has it on his Bear Animal companion. It makes his AComp appreciated by the table as opposed to resented.

[CRobledo]

For elemental damage, go for corrosive. I'd reckon to say acid is the least common resistance.

[Undone]

Hairy Pat wrote:

Holy is +2. So unless you plan on shelling out ~20,000gp that's a bad idea.

20k is a massive amount of your total wealth earned in a career.

I'd suggest Menacing. One of our players has it on his Bear Animal companion. It makes his AComp appreciated by the table as opposed to resented.

For an AOMF it's actually 16k. As for menacing wow it's surprisingly good but the biggest problem is not missing but rather damage reduction.

As for Acid is resistance to acid less common than undead? Because merciful is basically "Works on 100% of targets which aren't undead/construct".

[Hairy Pat]

~ means approximately.

Me, I'd rather spend 16K on a +3 weapon, but that's just me.

[Undone]

Hairy Pat wrote:

~ means approximately.

Me, I'd rather spend 16K on a +3 weapon, but that's just me.

Well as a druid combat occurs in wild shape. +3 weapons are out of the question. The AoMF could be on me but I'm not sure that switches the enchantment I should have on it.

[Mergy]

I'm a fan of menacing. Doubling everyone's flank bonus will make sure everyone loves your cat.

[Undone]

Adam Mogyorodi wrote:

I'm a fan of menacing. Doubling everyone's flank bonus will make sure everyone loves your cat.

The more I think about it the more I like it. Mufasa flanks something with a summon and all the summons get +4 to hit it. On something like the small earth elemental that means they have +12!! to hit and +11 damage (assumes both are on the ground). That's a great 1d3+1/1d4+2 summon all the way up to 9th. Thanks for pointing this out. I'm fairly sure it's by far the best choice overall. Thanks :)

[CRobledo]

Undone wrote:

As for Acid is resistance to acid less common than undead? Because merciful is basically "Works on 100% of targets which aren't undead/construct".

Yes, because since the AC cannot turn merciful on/off they would deal zero damage on undead/constructs. It turns ALL the damage to non-lethal, not just the 1d6

[Mergy]

The best part about menacing is that your cat doesn't even need to flank. Even if all your cat is doing is threatening the opponent, anyone who is flanking that opponent takes advantage of the bonus.

[Hemano Gamma]

Menacing is right at the top of the list, but another one I like as a claw fighter is cruel, as having 5 temporary HP after every kill will dramatically increase any melee character's (or pet's) survivability. Having a couple different Bane AotMF for undead and evil outsiders to swap out work really well too. At only 5k each you could have 4 for the price of a single +2 Amulet, and versus those types it has a +2 to hit as well as +2d6+2 dmg so it takes care of the magic DR by itself.

[calagnar]

I feel the damage by pass for holy is worth more then any thing else you can get. Menacing dose give you a bit higher to hit. Hitting then taking off the first 10 points of damage really hurts. With the start of season 5 close. You will see more and more lower planer monsters. Where the by pass will be 10/cold iron, or good at lower levels. The animal companion might not have the to hit bonus of a fighter. They do pack a punch. However with out a way to over come DR. They will have a problem with almost all of season 5 scenarios as most will be focused around the world wound.

[Uktabi]

I really like planar. It has an advantage over holy vs elementals and greatly increases damage when you need the help, which is normally when your shocking or corrosive are useless. I like menacing a lot too.

[Rycaut]

At higher levels (whether PFS or not) you will see a lot more DR and resistances in the enemies you will be facing.

Planar is a nice AoMF enchantment. Vicious is also great if you can heal reliably but for an animal companion I don't think it is a good choice.

It is just me but I wouldn't suggest menacing - a large animal companion will likely be helping with flanks anyway by the nature of being a large but also remember that a big cat should be looking for pounce opportunities as well as chances to use the high movement rate of a cat.

[Majuba]

Straight energy works well - gets past DR which can often be a problem. Otherwise, go for something flavorful.

Undone wrote:

As such GMW will be providing the enhancement bonus.

Just to be clear, you need GMF for natural attacks. GMW only works on unarmed strikes (possibly only Monk unarmed strikes) and manufactured weapons.

[BigNorseWolf]

If you're going to want the pet to hit things, go for the +3 amulet (which is a LOT cheaper now)

At higher levels, your animal companion is 1) a 3/4 bab character and 2) is missing a few hit dice for the party. It starts to add up. There's lots of ways of adding damage but only a few to add +hit AND to get through the silver and cold iron damage reductions that everything is sporting at those levels.

The new prices are as follows: 4,000 gp (+1), 16,000 gp (+2), 36,000 gp (+3), 64,000 gp (+4), 100,000 gp (+5).

[Psion-Psycho]

1st off see if u can give ur pet the totem animal w/e archetype since that will give ur pet free ghost touch and eldritch claws feat. 2nd what i did on my druid pet's AoMF was make it +1 and added furyborn so every time it damages a target it enhancement goes up to a max of +5 and wounding since it is a stack-able bleed that effects any target not immune to crits.

[BigNorseWolf]

Ooo furryborn is nice on a pouncer....

[SCPRedMage]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Ooo furryborn is nice on a pouncer....

I see what you did there.

EDIT:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

The new prices are as follows: 4,000 gp (+1), 16,000 gp (+2), 36,000 gp (+3), 64,000 gp (+4), 100,000 gp (+5).

These new prices are now officially part of the Core Rulebook, as of the sixth printing.

[Undone]

Majuba wrote:

Straight energy works well - gets past DR which can often be a problem. Otherwise, go for something flavorful.

Undone wrote:

As such GMW will be providing the enhancement bonus.

Just to be clear, you need GMF for natural attacks. GMW only works on unarmed strikes (possibly only Monk unarmed strikes) and manufactured weapons.

This was a typo. I'm aware it's GMF.

Quote:

If you're going to want the pet to hit things, go for the +3 amulet (which is a LOT cheaper now)

At higher levels, your animal companion is 1) a 3/4 bab character and 2) is missing a few hit dice for the party. It starts to add up. There's lots of ways of adding damage but only a few to add +hit AND to get through the silver and cold iron damage reductions that everything is sporting at those levels.

The new prices are as follows: 4,000 gp (+1), 16,000 gp (+2), 36,000 gp (+3), 64,000 gp (+4), 100,000 gp (+5).

You're right I want to hit and bypass DR. GMF cast three times (Two PoP3) plus a holy AOMF costs 9,000 + 9,000 + 16,000 = 31,000. Good bypasses just about everything. A +3 AoMF wouldn't be available to me until level 9-10 anyway while a Holy AOMF would be available ~6-7. As for the prices I was aware, they're still extremely expensive and the cost of a +2 item (+6 for a +3 item where the +6 item would almost always be better, yes even on the AC. Buy a belt slot and +6 str all of that and it stacks with GMF)

Quote:

1st off see if u can give ur pet the totem animal w/e archetype since that will give ur pet free ghost touch and eldritch claws feat. 2nd what i did on my druid pet's AoMF was make it +1 and added furyborn so every time it damages a target it enhancement goes up to a max of +5 and wounding since it is a stack-able bleed that effects any target not immune to crits.

The animal totem archetypes inhibit my transforming into an air/earth elemental. I hate all of them. If there was an elemental shaman and it gave me wildshape at 6 +2 on elemental and -2 on others I'd be on board but as it is I hate all of the druid archtypes accept for the savant but that's just so vanilla.

[Undone]

Undone wrote:

Majuba wrote:

Straight energy works well - gets past DR which can often be a problem. Otherwise, go for something flavorful.

Undone wrote:

As such GMW will be providing the enhancement bonus.

Just to be clear, you need GMF for natural attacks. GMW only works on unarmed strikes (possibly only Monk unarmed strikes) and manufactured weapons.

This was a typo. I'm aware it's GMF.

Quote:

If you're going to want the pet to hit things, go for the +3 amulet (which is a LOT cheaper now)

At higher levels, your animal companion is 1) a 3/4 bab character and 2) is missing a few hit dice for the party. It starts to add up. There's lots of ways of adding damage but only a few to add +hit AND to get through the silver and cold iron damage reductions that everything is sporting at those levels.

The new prices are as follows: 4,000 gp (+1), 16,000 gp (+2), 36,000 gp (+3), 64,000 gp (+4), 100,000 gp (+5).

You're right I want to hit and bypass DR. GMF cast three times (Two PoP3) plus a holy AOMF costs 9,000 + 9,000 + 16,000 = 31,000. Good bypasses just about everything. A +3 AoMF wouldn't be available to me until level 9-10 anyway while a Holy AOMF would be available ~6-7. As for the prices I was aware, they're still extremely expensive and the cost of a +2 item (+6 for a +3 item where the +6 item would almost always be better, yes even on the AC. Buy a belt slot and +6 str all of that and it stacks with GMF)

Quote:

1st off see if u can give ur pet the totem animal w/e archetype since that will give ur pet free ghost touch and eldritch claws feat. 2nd what i did on my druid pet's AoMF was make it +1 and added furyborn so every time it damages a target it enhancement goes up to a max of +5 and wounding since it is a stack-able bleed that effects any target not immune to crits.

The animal totem archetypes inhibit my transforming into an air/earth elemental. I hate all of them. If there was an elemental shaman and it gave me wildshape at 6 +2 on elemental and -2...

I just realized that my math was off on that. 2 POP3 are 18,000 + 16,000 or 34,000 which is still less than a +3 AOMF. My immediate reaction to selecting was to use vicious but that didn't work with resinous skin the way I wanted so it's probably just best to get holy.

[BigNorseWolf]

The difference between the pearls of power and the amulet of mighty fists is that the amulets go through DR silver and cold iron, the greater magic fangs don't.

Tony the tiger also has a rake attack to consider.

Holy is another good option (bud ump bump) but there are a few allegedly chaotic neutral npcs out there.

[Undone]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

The difference between the pearls of power and the amulet of mighty fists is that the amulets go through DR silver and cold iron, the greater magic fangs don't.

Tony the tiger also has a rake attack to consider.

Holy is another good option (bud ump bump) but there are a few allegedly chaotic neutral npcs out there.

Quote:

Rake (Ex) A creature with this special attack gains extra natural attacks under certain conditions, typically when it grapples its foe. In addition to the options available to all grapplers, a monster with the rake ability gains two free claw attacks that it can use only against a grappled foe. The bonus and damage caused by these attacks is included in the creature's description. A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn already grappling to use its rake—it can't begin a grapple and rake in the same turn.

Unless I'm mistaken (in which case GMF just doesn't work on mufasa the lion) I only need to apply GMF 3 times (1/claw 1 bite) to get all 5 attacks. Or 1 time for a +1 bonus.

While holy might not apply all the time the real question is this.

What will be the -best- in the worst situations. Overwhelmingly I feel like that's holy for evil outsiders/undead. Although golems still suck I can't ever afford a way to break that DR. (unless I buy an adamantine weapon drop it before wild shape and wield sword and board as an air/earth elemental.

[BigNorseWolf]

Undone wrote:

Unless I'm mistaken (in which case GMF just doesn't work on mufasa the lion) I only need to apply GMF 3 times (1/claw 1 bite) to get all 5 attacks. Or 1 time for a +1 bonus.

I believe you are mistaken about GMF: it affects one weapon, not one group of weapons. Ie, his left claw, his right claw, back left leg, back right leg, and bite are all individual weapons.

[Majuba]

Rakes are definitely back claws. I've seen my kittens kick each other in the head enough to be sure of that :)

[BigNorseWolf]

Majuba wrote:

Rakes are definitely back claws. I've seen my kittens kick each other in the head enough to be sure of that :)

Thats not the issue. Weapon focus (claw) would apply to the rakes. The issue is that if you want to have more than a +1 enchantment, greater magic fang only affects one natural attack, not one category of natural attacks.

[Majuba]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Majuba wrote:

Rakes are definitely back claws. I've seen my kittens kick each other in the head enough to be sure of that :)

Thats not the issue. Weapon focus (claw) would apply to the rakes. The issue is that if you want to have more than a +1 enchantment, greater magic fang only affects one natural attack, not one category of natural attacks.

I was agreeing with you. Bold added for emphasis.

[Mergy]

The rake counts with Weapon Focus (claw) for the attack roll, but if you want them to be magical, you need to buff them separately.

[Undone]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Undone wrote:

Unless I'm mistaken (in which case GMF just doesn't work on mufasa the lion) I only need to apply GMF 3 times (1/claw 1 bite) to get all 5 attacks. Or 1 time for a +1 bonus.

I believe you are mistaken about GMF: it affects one weapon, not one group of weapons. Ie, his left claw, his right claw, back left leg, back right leg, and bite are all individual weapons.

Quote:

Rake (Ex) A creature with this special attack gains extra natural attacks under certain conditions, typically when it grapples its foe. In addition to the options available to all grapplers, a monster with the rake ability gains two free claw attacks that it can use only against a grappled foe. The bonus and damage caused by these attacks is included in the creature's description. A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn already grappling to use its rake—it can't begin a grapple and rake in the same turn.

No where in the description does it mention back claws. As such RAW I can use the front claws to rake. Ergo it takes 3 GMF to fully enchant mufasa. Besides it's not like I could ever afford a +3 AoMF anyway.

[Mergy]

Expect table variation.

[Psion-Psycho]

@undone
When i stated "give ur pet the totem animal w/e archetype" i mean give it to ur pet not ur self. The following is the pet archetype: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/animal-companions/animal -companion-archetypes/totem-guide-companion-archetype

[Undone]

Psion-Psycho wrote:

@undone

When i stated "give ur pet the totem animal w/e archetype" i mean give it to ur pet not ur self. The following is the pet archetype: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/animal-companions/animal -companion-archetypes/totem-guide-companion-archetype

Thanks after reading that archetype I might actually have a chance to bypass DR without holy (I'll probably still get holy). The archetype is just awesome in general too so thanks for pointing it out.

[Psion-Psycho]

Undone wrote:

Psion-Psycho wrote:

@undone

When i stated "give ur pet the totem animal w/e archetype" i mean give it to ur pet not ur self. The following is the pet archetype: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/animal-companions/animal -companion-archetypes/totem-guide-companion-archetype

Thanks after reading that archetype I might actually have a chance to bypass DR without holy (I'll probably still get holy). The archetype is just awesome in general too so thanks for pointing it out.

Ya for a game im about to play i decided to make an Aasimar Druid with the Lion Shaman archetype because of setting and background story. Aasimar is simply for there Celestial Servant feat to add the Celestial template to my white lion and lion because its the best, most well rounded, animal of the list, dinos never existed on the main game world were starting of on so ya. Lion Shaman archetype was simply because of background story and setting and it fit with the animal archetype with me being a shaman and it my totem spirit guide.