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Speaking of, I am writing a Revamp of the Qinggong Powers and I plan on proposing it it after many drafts. Not to sound hopeful, as if it would ever be accepted or even partially accepted. I'm still going to get it out there though.
I've been thinking that Qinggong is probably the best fix to Monk that could be done, and just adding some new powers to the list along with a feat to let you select more would go 80% of the way towards fixing Monk.
I think Monk is being kept weak on purpose, as the exception to the "Asian=better" rule. :)
Well how about it Devs...can a monks unarmed strikes be enchanted like a manufactured weapon if they were first Masterwork ie: Masterwork Transformation, which under the Unarmed Strike of the monk in the CRB leads one to beleive they should be treated as manufactured weapons in relation to spells and effects that improve and or enhance the weapon?
And since UE states Masterwork transformation transforms any non masterwork weapon (like a manufactured one) into a Masterwork weapon....etc etc
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Honestly, I doubt it, for a couple of reasons.
1. Masterwork Transformation requires that the target have a masterwork equivalent. However, there's is not a masterwork unarmed strike. RAW, the spell would fizzle.
2. If they were to allow such a thing to happen, more than likely monk base unarmed damage would be nerfed severely or flurrying would be reduced if not removed outright. Because unarmed strike is viewed as a single weapon (even though the actual strike can take many forms), a flurrying monk would basically get double the benefit out of weapon enchantments to their unarmed strike compared to every other class out there using two-weapon fighting.
I understand that you want to boost monks (I'm a monk lover myself), but right now, brass knuckles will not be the way to improve monks the way you wish.
As a slight sidetrack, there's my thought on a minor improvement.
Allow an ability to use ki points to add either enhancement modifiers or properties, similar to the magus. This can be an ability gained at 4th level, allowing the monk to burn a ki point to enhance all of his unarmed strikes or monk weapons with the enhancement modifier or property for 1 minute, improving every 4 levels to +5 at level 20. I understand that there is a Ki Weapons ability from the Monk of the Empty Fist, but that ability has a terrible ki/modifier ration and duration.
Honestly, I doubt it, for a couple of reasons.
1. Masterwork Transformation requires that the target have a masterwork equivalent. However, there's is not a masterwork unarmed strike. RAW, the spell would fizzle.
This is the stated reason for why it doesn't work.
2. If they were to allow such a thing to happen, more than likely monk base unarmed damage would be nerfed severely or flurrying would be reduced if not removed outright. Because unarmed strike is viewed as a single weapon (even though the actual strike can take many forms), a flurrying monk would basically get double the benefit out of weapon enchantments to their unarmed strike compared to every other class out there using two-weapon fighting.
Even if that were true...so?
Every +1 is worth a damage die increase (plus an attack boost), and is more reliable. If Unarmed Strike capped at 1d6 but was allowed to be enhanced properly it would be FAR better than 2d6 with a crappy replacement (the AoMF).
This is fair and frankly if the Bodywraps they did release weren't even worse for a Monk than the Amulet I'd be okay with that but it really does feel like every change to the Monk has be a hatred induced nerf-batting in the back alley. It really makes you wonder why they bothered including the Monk in the game.
Backward compatibility, plus the monk IS a difficult class: defensively, monks ARE quite strong. Not quite as strong as paladins, but very strong. Give them strong offence as well and they are unstoppable. A sizable minority still thinks monks are fine, because you can build a monk that is nigh-on un-hittable. Unfortunately the game mechanics reward offence over defence, and the builds for the monk that work this way are hard to achieve.
And here's a thought, if they acknowledge the monk is weaker than intended, then rather than nerfing him further, leave things the way they were and fix them when you can, changing the knuckles did nothing but hurt the monk further.
They are not nerfing the monk, they are nerfing the equipment. The PROBLEM is that the monk is so dependent on the right equipment, because the class itself is weak. It's the class that needs the fix.
Speaking of, I am writing a Revamp of the Qinggong Powers and I plan on proposing it it after many drafts. Not to sound hopeful, as if it would ever be accepted or even partially accepted. I'm still going to get it out there though.I've been thinking that Qinggong is probably the best fix to Monk that could be done, and just adding some new powers to the list along with a feat to let you select more would go 80% of the way towards fixing Monk.
I think Monk is being kept weak on purpose, as the exception to the "Asian=better" rule. :)
The Quinggong is a huge improvement, and it fixes many monk issues. However, it doesn't fix all of them, and one is that ki is a resource of which you have little and that runs out fast. I don't think that the class flavours is anything to do with it, really.
Just to be clear, I was referring to body wraps that function as the amulet of mighty fists do now (albeit a different slot, not the other crappy kind that have already been printed.
When I think of skilled martial artists in the real world, I fondly remember how often they rely on brass knuckles to be true badasses.Martial arts B-movies are the "real world" ? Now I'm afraid to leave my house. Apparently, there are pissed-off thugs and rival martial arts masters around each corner, if one believes what's in these movies.
Also, stifling a rule discussion with "that's not what the real world's like", seems strange, seeing as you're talking about a fantasy game.
While I don't agree with his point, you do realize every one of those people pictured is a real, and very skilled, martial artist, right?
Honestly, I doubt it, for a couple of reasons.
1. Masterwork Transformation requires that the target have a masterwork equivalent. However, there's is not a masterwork unarmed strike. RAW, the spell would fizzle.
"This is the stated reason for why it doesn't work."
And I have already shown by the strict wording of the text in UE it could. UE simply states that Masterwork Transformation can turn any non masterwork weapon into a masterwork one. Forget the added wording in UM as we seemingly have to do in both APG AND Adventurer's Armoury in place of the new wording in UE. Obviously from the ruling we have received, it's all about the wording in UE and nothing else. Remember, my point here is not whether it should, but if Sean's explanation was based on a change of wording in UE and UE trumps all, then the new wording in UE also allows for this.
If his explanation is not based on wording, I would like to hear the reasoning for another nerf to the monk...and dont give me this its only the equipment that got nerfed, if they had let the equipment of knuckles stand as was the weakness that is inherint to anything but a defensive monk wouldnt be there as bad. And a monk cant go massive defense and go all out offense in the same build any more than most classes. The other classes have the option of different builds,each that are effective and valuable, so should the monk.
I would like to hear WHY the knuckles arent UA damage anymore. A cap on enhancements could have easily been placed on them, and even 3.5 had gloves that could be enchanted to provide weapon bonuses for monks...why not now. Why the extra hit?And for the martial artists and boxers comparison, guys...Boxing IS a martial art, as is Sumo, olympian wrestling etc etc. They gave us AoMS but made it so its horrendously expensive and in a crappy slot. How about a ring? Much nicer....like the ring of invisibility comparison.
Remember, if it's about the wording...then UE trumps and UM is not relevant. Thats what I understood Sean to say in his explanation of the knuckles.
I would let people use Masterwork Transformation on a Monk's fists, and it should work, but as written it doesn't. A brief reference to a spell is not errata.
The cool monks from the Iron Kingdoms settings use gauntlets to fight. Not only does it look great, but it sounds much more effective. Those famous martial artists that SKR talked about can punch humans just fine, but Pathfinder character fight more than just humans.
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I would let people use Masterwork Transformation on a Monk's fists, and it should work, but as written it doesn't. A brief reference to a spell is not errata.
...especially when that same brief reference actually sends you right back to the original spell's entry in UM.
Incidentally, the short description in UM says the same thing: "Make a normal item into a masterwork one." I hope no one would consider that to be an overrule of the actual spell entry, either.
IMO, the UE blurb referred to adds nothing, as it's a reference back to UM. In the end, allow it-or don't-in your own campaign, but RAW still seem set against it.