Hi All - long-time listener, first-time caller ;)
I'm new to Pathfinder but have been playing DnD since about 1977.
We've started a new campaign and the GM is experienced with Pathfinder.
My stats are -
-Str 8
-Con 8
-Int 16
-Wis 14
-Dex 18
-Chr 10
... and my original character idea was C/G human Ranger-archer, which looks much more interesting in Pathfinder than in 3 & 3.5.
I've read many threads here on the forum as well as Treantmonk's guide to rangers and Lastoth's guide to archery.
We are limited to the Core Rulebook & Adv Players Guide.
I'm getting the vibe that this will a lower magic campaign as far as items go.
As we are still 1st level we're still figuring out where we fit.
I never like playing a one-trick pony so at least a few arcane spells and possibly Arcane Archer and/or Eldritch Knight have appeal.
The other characters in the party are -
- Oracle
- another Oracle
- melee Fighter
- Gnome Sorcerer - draconic bloodline - illusions and evocations
- Monk
- Rogue/Shadowdancer
An important question is, will the Gnome be able to carry the weight of the party's arcane casting needs?
If so, I'll likely go straight Ranger.
If not, I've given myself 3 options - all three take Magical Knack as a Trait - running them up to 15th level for grins ...
I. Ranger 6/Wizard 1/Arcane Archer 3/Eldritch Knight 5 (arcane caster 9)
This option will be heavy on archer and will supplement the gnome if he's doing well with the arcane stuff.
II. Ranger 3/Wizard 3/Eldritch Knight 9 (arcane caster 13)
This option will let my character do more casting and still be a capable archer.
III. Ranger 1/Wizard 1/Eldritch Knight 10/Wizard 3 (arcane caster 15)
This will allow maximum arcane capability and still let me pay lip service to my archer concept and be the party's archer.
All 3 would err toward archery feats throughout the 15 levels.
Am I a flippin' genius? Or am I embarking on a path to frustration and ruin? :)
On the Wizard side, if the gnome will be an Illusionist/Evoker, should I be a generalist, or specialize in some way? I want to keep 'Gravity Bow' in the mix regardless.
I don't usually play arcane casters and with the new game system I have a little trepidation about being on the road to a dead-end.
That said, mini-maxing takes 2nd-place to the character for me. She has some intentional weaknesses - strength & con, not much armor, won't be riding a warhorse in contravention of Lastoth's advice, no Big Cat animal companion, etc. She will be avoiding melee at all costs and will have a good stealth score.
If it was you, what would you do?
Thanks all!
You would be a "flippin' genius" if (considering how the build you are suggesting is generally very, very good) you were the first to think of it. All in all, this is a solid idea you have here.
Thanks Artaxerxes - would you believe that a couple weeks ago I was reading Plutarch's 'Life of Artaxerxes II'?
I tried searching for things approximating my build, and read plenty on Eldritch Knights, etc, but most seemed to err towards getting into EK ASAP to bring EK's 10th-lvl coup-de-grace as close as possible, and none where a Gnome Evoker/Illusionist was likely the main arcane caster.
I'll look some more.
I hope I can avoid the 'torture of the two boats' ;)
|
Um, one thing...build's not legal.
Take another look at Eldritch Knight. It's able to cast third level spells, which means Ranger 1/Wizard 5 is about as fast as you can get in.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/core-rulebook/eldritch-kni ght
I did something similar with my Pathfinder Society character, and it's still a pretty effective character (Ranger 2/Sorceror 6/EK 1). In Pathfinder, archery is much less about your class, and much more about having a good dexterity and the right archery feats. You can do that as a caster, no problem.
7th and 8th level were a little harder, I was a bit low on hit points. But two feats at 9th level have helped out a lot, and I'm able to contribute just fine.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Another interesting way to go is Ranger/Magus. You won't get to use ALL of the magus abilities (some are for melee), but you'll be a great archer, and still have some solid spells.
You'll have to ask, since it's in Ultimate Combat, but hey, it can't hurt to ask...Magus is most similar to the old Elf class. You remember, I'm sure.
Thanks guys. I did see after I posted that my option "III" was springing too early into EK - good catch Rudolf. But if I read it right, with Magical Knack giving me +2 levels of arcane casting, build III should read 'Ranger 1/Wizard 3/EK 10/Wiz 1'. I doubt I'll play the character by getting into EK ASAP - builds I & II are the more likely routes.
The GM is hard & fast on which books we can use, so I'll put Ranger/Magus away for future use.
Thanks also for the opinion on the Gnome's ability to cover a party's arcane needs, Soupturtle. I agree about Ranger being the better option in this case. I should noted, Soup & Houser, that I have already added my Human +2 to Int, and I intend to have a bad Str and Con score - though getting them to the point of not giving the neg 1 is something I'll address asap. I did not want to totally tank those two stats into negatives, 10s would have been fine <sigh>. I do strongly desire her 4th and 8th lvl ability boosts to go into Int though. Hmmm ... tough choices ahead!
I'll take a look at your recommended thread, Soup, and fold it into my thinking. Her 2nd CL will go into Wizard regardless, so the *earliest* I will need to start making decisions will be the 2/3 transition. By then I should have a better idea how the Gnome's player is going to play him.
Thank all!
|
But if I read it right, with Magical Knack giving me +2 levels of arcane casting, build III should read 'Ranger 1/Wizard 3/EK 10/Wiz 1'. I doubt I'll play the character by getting into EK ASAP - builds I & II are the more likely routes.
You aren't reading Magical Knack right. You only get a bonus on caster level, you don't actually get spells per level as if you were a higher level.
Hmmm – not usually playing a spellcaster for the last 20-ish years and favoring warrior, rogue and ranger have made me a bit rusty on casting, so I went over this carefully with my GM, but let me make sure with you lot that I'm not flubbing this … I'm not a rules-monger, but this is important -
From Paizo.com -
“Magical Knack: You were raised, either wholly or in part, by a magical creature, either after it found you abandoned in the woods or because your parents often left you in the care of a magical minion. This constant exposure to magic has made its mysteries easy for you to understand, even when you turn your mind to other devotions and tasks. Pick a class when you gain this trait—your caster level in that class gains a +2 trait bonus as long as this bonus doesn't raise your caster level above your current Hit Dice.”
From Arcane Archer at Paizo.com –
“Spells per Day: At the indicated levels, an arcane archer gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting.”
From Mystic Theurge at Paizo.com –
“Spells per Day: When a new mystic theurge level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class and any one divine spellcasting class he belonged to previously. He does not, however, gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that he adds the level of mystic theurge to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class and divine spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day, spells known, and caster level accordingly.”
Our assumption is that the +2 caster level granted by Magical Knack grants the same benefit as new spellcasting class levels granted by leveling in A.A. and M.T.
Please sound off – is this NOT correct??
In the link provided by Imbicatus, it looks like one does NOT advance one’s access to spells per day and to higher level spells –
“Caster Level: In the event that a class feature or other special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as range, duration, and damage dealt), but also to your caster level check to overcome your target's spell resistance and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both the dispel check and the Dc of the check).”
If the GM stands by his decision to let me run with it, then I will, but I don’t want a brouhaha if/when the other players object, so I’m very interested in opinions here.
Thanks some more ;)
|
|
Think of it this way: If the trait worked the way you are reading it, then a fighter could take Magical Knack and after second level he could have the spellcasting ability of a second level spellcaster with full spell selection without ever taking a level in the class. If it worked that way, it would be the most powerful trait in the game. It's much more powerful than the rogue talent minor magic, and that is a class ability, not a feat.
If your group is OK with that as a house rule, that's fine, but it is not how it is supposed to work.
Thanks Imbicatus & Jon - I have re-submitted this to the GM by email so that he knows what I am asking.
Certainly I wouldn't expect a warrior who had the Magical Knack trait to be able to pick up 2 arcane casting levels w/o ever taking a level in Wizard or Sorcerer as a class first. I didn't mean for it to sound like that was how I was reading it.
What ya'll are saying is that the Magical Knack trait is not adding levels of a spellcasting class in the same way that Arcane Archer or Mystic Theurge are - it is a less powerful benefit. I'm on board with that, pending my GM's response.
Thanks again for the benefit of your advice.
Nothing beats feeling like a dolt in your first thread! ;)
I've made a very similar character before, Fighter 5*, Wizard 1 (at third level), Arcane Archer X (forget what level I was at).
Unfortunately, some unlucky saving throws involving the Confusion Spell and a Pit Trap ended that character before I could completely test out the mid-higher levels where I would have added some levels of Eldritch Knight. :( Lets just say an ally that focuses on melee damage is not good when they are confused and in the same pit as your character! :P
The fighter is nice for squeezing in some extra feats and the extra damage, but I would think a ranger would work just fine, especially if you want to concentrate on stealth.
You should have a lot of fun w/ this build, but I can tell you from experience that dumping Con can end an archers life prematurely. :P
Have fun!
*I might be off on fighter levels, can't recall exact prereqs on Arcane Archer right now.
Magical Knack doesn't give you early access to spells. It makes the spells you do have more powerful (assuming multiclassing occurred).
If the entry requirement said something like '5th casting level of an arcane casting class' it would work, but it doesn't you need to cast level 3 spells.
Just as a quick example - a fighter 2/wizard 1 would only get spells as a level 1 wizard. However he casts them as if he was level three. If he casts magic missile it would add a second missile. If he cast burning hands it would be 3d4 damage. It does not grant access to 2nd level spells.
Another thing to think about - this is a trait. Traits are supposed to be roughly half as strong as a feat. See Expanded Arcana - this is a feat that lets you add a spell known (or two of a lesser level). When a trait seems stronger than a feat it's a good idea to take a second look at and make sure you are doing it right.