Goblin Squad Member
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So we could conceivably be creating content for the game already. A version of the Unity development environment is free for download already.
Might there be a way to contribute art assets for consideration? Would doing so be helpful?
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Being
the Unity development environment is for programming the entities in the game and making the levels(scenes in Unity).
Any 3D content has to be made in a 3D creation program; 3Dsmax, Maya, Hexagon, Softimage, Z-Brush and many more.
Farther more for making character clothing/armour, you'll need the base models to act as a base for making clothes/Armour.
And depending on the method of the character content creation (Swap or morph) it'll add to the difficulty in making the content.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't think it would be helpful, it just creates more work for GW. The chance of getting a gem from the pile of crap submitted is very low. They hire artists to create this stuff.
The farthest I would go is allowing the community to submit concept art. Though I still don't think it is worth the effort from GW. They already have an extensive library to work from.
Very far down the line I could see GW releasing a unity scene, and the necessary game assets, to allow players to create scenes(we have been calling these modules). That is assuming they are not making any significant changes to the unity engine.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah Unity is what you use to build the game and you import assets from various other programs. If they will except any user generated content it is probably assets.
I think at this stage it would be hard to make them the assets they need without them guiding us in the process of creating them. Once the game is released and we get a "feel" for it, it should be much easier.
No harm in downloading it and fiddling around though.
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CEO, Goblinworks
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Not yet. While you can use the Unity toolset to make stuff, you can't send us assets we can use in game because you need a whole bunch of 3rd party tools, and custom settings & shaders that we're creating in-house.
Eventually yes, it's going to be possible. But the work needed to make it possible will almost certainly not be done until after Open Enrollment begins.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that assets of the quality required are unlikely to come from unpaid or underpaid submissions. If you think that you can produce work good enough, submit your portfolio and a job application.
Have you ever played a game with a modder community? People develop professional quality assets for free in dozens of games every day.
Not yet. While you can use the Unity toolset to make stuff, you can't send us assets we can use in game because you need a whole bunch of 3rd party tools, and custom settings & shaders that we're creating in-house.
Eventually yes, it's going to be possible. But the work needed to make it possible will almost certainly not be done until after Open Enrollment begins.
Makes sense. Looking forward to seeing what happens once you reach that point.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Have you ever played a game with a modder community? People develop professional quality assets for free in dozens of games every day.
There's a difference between a modding community, and open submissions. Look at things like The Architect in CoH(RIP). Most creations were either garbage, or focused around exploitation.
Mods are also long term constant upkeep endeavors, not a one-off submission. The amount of dedication required demands a higher quality.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Eventually yes, it's going to be possible. But the work needed to make it possible will almost certainly not be done until after Open Enrollment begins.
I think this could be a long term goal that will pay off in the long run. I allows players to engage more fully with the game. I mean how nice would it be to see a sword that you created in the game?
not only can the game world be player driven but also some of the dev.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I assume that any third-party modding would be cosmetic only and subject to vetting before being allowed in-game? I would hate to see the sort of arms-race armour and weapons that befouled the Dragon Age modding options. At least in that game you weren't in a multi-player environment so having the equivalent of a suit of +40 Plate of Wish was a choice you made as a single player.
How long before the nude avatar mods come out I wonder? ;)
But yes, it would be nice to have a tool whereby your own concept of a longsword could be modelled.
I also like the GW2 mechanism whereby you can merge the appearance of an item with the powers of another of the same type. If I like the look of a suit of armour, I don't want to have to have to ignore it because the other suit is better mechanically. I'd prefer to be able to say, 'I want the +3 leather but made to look like the +1. And in red.' Maybe the PC crafters will be able to do this?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Richard Garriot's Shroud of the Avatar game uses unity and has some means of crowd sourcing art:
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?paged=5
I backed that kickstarter, but now regret it, so perhaps not a good example. Most dev blogs seem to be about player housing you can buy with real money, or else different ways you can give the company money: now paypal!; now layby, only x% extra service fee! Starting to feel like an MMO timeshare scam.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Wasteland 2 (together with Unity) ran a promotion of sorts, where the assets were submitted to the Unity asset store, and some might be used for the Wasteland game (and all would be available for other developers to be bought from the Unity asset store).
See this page for some of the details.
The idea is quite cool, but all assets wouldn't be as unique to the game (as they could be used by others as well). Also there's the issue of IP and rights to be thought about.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Richard Garriot's Shroud of the Avatar game uses unity and has some means of crowd sourcing art:
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?paged=5
I backed that kickstarter, but now regret it, so perhaps not a good example. Most dev blogs seem to be about player housing you can buy with real money, or else different ways you can give the company money: now paypal!; now layby, only x% extra service fee! Starting to feel like an MMO timeshare scam.
I just had a look at the ks updates and ALL of them since they said, "THANK YOU - WE LOVE YOU!" involve some sort of mention of paying more *ugh*. Almost like some sort of property bubble speculation. I guess it hinges on how successful the game is: If popular the property could have more value (if tradeable for cash?) but if it bombs, I wonder how happy with those purchases those players/speculators will be?
Perhaps those people are ecstatic about their purchases and monthly pay plan options, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth personally speaking. I backed Godus at the lowest level to get the game, as I'm a fan of the god game genre, but I'm beginning to get the same sensation of a sick taste in my mouth: Molyneaux keeps adding gimmicky ideas on top of an empty space where the actual core game should be: Ie a rotten center. I hope it turns out fun as his Bullfrog games were awesome.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Chris Roberts' outfit has generated a metric ton of money ($8+ Million) with après Kickstarter fundraising.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't why I get an uneasy feeling. I think what it is: If the devs say we need x to make this game and deliver y with a little extra post y if we raise more cash and a few large tiers for players with many more for funding the basic game - I think this keeps the balance of risk and reward in crowdfunding.
Whereas more tiers of eg >1,000 cash and more drives to make money post ks of the original deal for more larger sums of cash, these are imo increasing the risk with no discernable increase in delivery of y ie the game.
I think that is what worries me. It does not matter if more people want to fund lower tiers after the ks (except if that increases content and lengthens dev time). Buying virtual number plates or items also I wonder how much real value that has also. If the actual value could be pinned down more definitively and the devs say: Here's the value and here's the price: You do the math, then I can see that being a better presentation of a deal for people. If those rent-free houses in SotA are said to save x amount of grinding or coin then it is easier to see the deal's worth. Otherwise I can only see that they offer "the promise of value" and that's quite different from "X defined value".
I also think if the devs are making the game, perhaps they could cease all further deals (apart from game for 20$ tier) until they've delivered their side of the bargain more confidently??
tl;dr: I think there is more risk exposure if further deals open up more of these sorts of questions to the paying public that should be shouldered by the company running the kickstarter.
Star Citizen seems to be running fine as the ships appear to have a value of cash -> in-game earnings -> ship classes.
I believe they opened up their website first, got swamped and opened KS to get the momentum back up while they sorted out the website being down.
But in general the more money the project makes, not necessarily making the game any better after a certain minimum amount, the more money goes down the drain if the game turns out average to poor. Almost like investments: Invest small amounts widely, whereas investing big in one project I think is bigger risk; albeit that one project might be the apple in the eye for any given pledger!
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've backed Star Citizen as well as SoA, and am likely to give Star Citizen more money in the coming week, with no regrets.
The way I see it with kickstarter and other forms of backing a game's development, you are placing trust in the company to produce a good product. The more money you put forward the greater the risk you take on and the more important it is you're given confidence you're going to see a product you value at the end of the day.
SoA are looking for a lot of money from individual players, while providing minimal information on game play development. Most information released seems to relate to housing, which probably interests some people, but I don't see it as core gameplay. Hence loss of confidence.
You can pledge a lot of money to Start Citizen if you're inclined, but since they provide you with almost daily updates on game development you have confidence in what they are doing. And by donating money you are prepurchasing starships to fly. It is clear what you are getting for your money, and the items you purchase directly enhance your gameplay. Hence confidence in the product from the community, and on-going willingness to donate more cash.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Kelpie pretty much why I backed Star Citizen - and not SoA. I did also factor in another important angle which is that Star Citizen really looks to be pushing forward it's genre partly because there's very little there atm!; the same as with Planetary Annihilation for large scale RTS.
Whereas SoA despite going in the right direction with off-line, on-line shared space and multiplayer and persistence and consequence and exploration type of quest-stories - I just felt it was still up against it to really push the envelope and that combined with the above uneasiness put me off. I'm beginning to regret Godus, Molyneux seems to be able to speak to the crowd and not the player these days. :(
Despite EQ:N generating a lot of buzz and it will cause a stir when revealed at Sony's bash on 2 Aug, again those devs speak the same way Molyneux does, which puts me off that project, even if it is a great mmorpg at the end of that day.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I backed both. I think Shroud of the Avatar will play out nicely.
I think the popularity of Star Citizen and MechWarrior Online reveals something about how reliable prognostications on the profitability/risk of potential markets.
For what seemed ages, until Kickstarter provide a pragmatic way to measure consumer interest, developers could not gain risk-averse private investment for Space flight games nor apparently for giant robot shooter games, yet RSI/Chris Roberts and PGI/Piranha are taking in money hand over fist.
True, in the case of MechWarrior, there were also legal entanglements needing to be sorted out as well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Being: Did you back at this level* for SotA?!
Shroud of the Avatar unleashes its content creation kit
*you're not supposed to answer that, though you might inform on what you think of this kit...
...introduced the Dungeon Kit: a Unity-based content creation tool that is now available to all Developer-Level ($400+ pledge tier) backers. This tool not only lets you build assets for SotA, but it also allows you to build assets for any Unity-based game that you may be working on. Snell reports that this may be the first time that something like this has been made available to other game devs or publishers before the game is even released.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Being on the same page and having the correct tools is definitely a short term impediment. A longer term impediment would be legal issues. At the easiest, contracts can be written where the creator and submitter of the art transfers all rights to the work to GW.
But even then, there is proof of ownership over a work involved. One dishonest contributor can mire GW in all sorts of legal contests that may simply best be avoided.
That being said, Neverwinter Online is already using a dungeon development tool called The Foundry for content delivery. Might be worth seeing how they have protected themselves from users who decide to digitize Published Module X and whether it would be applicable to other assets as well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My understanding is that Paizo has a lot of experience publishing third-party content for PFRPG. I expect that expertise will come in handy when Goblinworks starts publishing third-party content for PFO.
This potential ranks in the top 5 things that excite me about Pathfinder Online. There may not be a lot of Theme Park content when PFO launches (EE or OE), but the potential is there for real Theme Park content to be delivered at a pace that no single studio could possibly manage, and with the diversity that comes from having entirely different teams working on different projects.
PFO might well end up with more theme park content than any other MMO in the business.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Being: Did you back at this level* for SotA?!
Shroud of the Avatar unleashes its content creation kit
*you're not supposed to answer that, though you might inform on what you think of this kit...
...introduced the Dungeon Kit: a Unity-based content creation tool that is now available to all Developer-Level ($400+ pledge tier) backers. This tool not only lets you build assets for SotA, but it also allows you to build assets for any Unity-based game that you may be working on. Snell reports that this may be the first time that something like this has been made available to other game devs or publishers before the game is even released.
I'm glad you brought this up AO. I'm curious how GW views this approach, especially since SotA is using Unity.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16
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My understanding is that Paizo has a lot of experience publishing third-party content for PFRPG. I expect that expertise will come in handy when Goblinworks starts publishing third-party content for PFO.
This potential ranks in the top 5 things that excite me about Pathfinder Online. There may not be a lot of Theme Park content when PFO launches (EE or OE), but the potential is there for real Theme Park content to be delivered at a pace that no single studio could possibly manage, and with the diversity that comes from having entirely different teams working on different projects.
PFO might well end up with more theme park content than any other MMO in the business.
There are certainly a lot of third party products and publishers for PFRPG. Huge amounts, ranging from full game design studios to talented amateurs writing for their friends. But note that it is a different scenario from PFO:
- all of the legal issues are pre-covered under the Open Gaming License
- there's no need to maintain a coherent world - Paizo publishes Golarion and 3PPs don't, they either publish in their own setting or in a generic fantasy mode
- there's no need to maintain a consistent set of game mechanics - again Paizo publishes the core but 3PPs can and do write extensions and variant rules
- there's no need to enforce balanced gear - 3PPs can invent any amount of crazy artifact level intelligent soul-drinking psionic swords of destiny, and it only affects those GMs who decide to use it
So there are significant new problems to address that Paizo don't need to worry about with 3PP publications for PFRPG.
And it's still incredibly exciting because I think there's a great chance that Ryan and the team will come up with cool solutions to the issues, and because Lisa and Paizo clearly understand the value of an extend ecosystem of creators.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...you might inform on what you think of this kit...
...introduced the Dungeon Kit: a Unity-based content creation tool that is now available to all Developer-Level ($400+ pledge tier) backers. This tool not only lets you build assets for SotA, but it also allows you to build assets for any Unity-based game that you may be working on. Snell reports that this may be the first time that something like this has been made available to other game devs or publishers before the game is even released.
It looks good so far, and useable. So long as you have a copy of Unity it is quite like the old Neverwinter Nights II Aurora toolkit. I haven't spent much time on it yet, am in the early stages of a dungeon design, but the SotA team will be issuing additional assets as time goes forward.
My investments in online game designs is, in my eyes, only an indicator of how important I think it is that the world's cultures need more ways to interact on a daily basis, and this should equally inform the inquisitive mind why I take the positions I do in my online presentation. There are only so many ways we can affect our world for whatever we each evaluate as 'better', and promoting online games as cultural media is one of those ways. I wish the world to evolve into a 'better' place. It matters to me more than the many many things I consider frivolities.