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So I've a bit of a quandary. My current campaign is entering the closing stretch and I'm starting to look into my next. In doing so, I started to develop a world that has discovered industry. A bit of Eberron but with more of a Zeitgeist (from Enworld) spin to it. Rather than magic driving everything, its technology. So things were going great until I stumbled across Kingmaker and fell in love with the idea.
So now I'm looking to mesh the two (sadly I simply do not have the time to run two campaigns). By and large, this will not be a problem. Most of what the AP describes can be easily translated to the homebrew. However, as I was envisioning the use of railroads (admittedly relatively new and scattered) I was curious as to what people thought that railroads should cost in terms of BP? Are there any other problems you envision with introducing higher speed travel to Kingmaker? Obviously PCs will be able to travel faster (as will their armies) but are there any other problems?
Naturally, at the start of the campaign, the Stolen Lands would remain an unsettled wilderness, so the PCs would have to build these improvements in order to utilize them.
Thanks in advance for any advice!
Double the amount of roads for cost, works like 'longstrider' permanently?
I like the race, and the time pressure. Philip, you got my vote!
+1 to (rail)road building!
Heh, had not really thought about it in terms of the race to build the railroad, but I really like that idea. Even if the competing factions do not end up being the major players, it still brings another dynamic to the campaign. My initial thought had been to keep the main campaign hook more or less the same (sending explorers south to shore up a potential power base), which can still be done, but the rail race just adds another element (which is great).
It might make things a bit awkward for VV but even there I think I can get away with it since it likely would not be a huge stretch to believe that the rail lines would not be fully built by then, particularly at 2 - 4 times the cost of a regular road. So it should still be plausible that there might not be a quick rail line to Varnhold by the start of the 3rd chapter.
@pennywit: Aye, guns will definitely be a part of it. Admittedly when I first started thinking about the world, it was before I had looked at Pathfinder and one of the draws was coming up with a system for guns. Pathfinder just makes that easier. :) I haven't really looked into the Pathfinder gun rules yet, so I might still tweak them a bit but knowing that there are already rules in place makes things so much easier.
Numeria, Pitax, and Brevoy could all be building lines. Bridges would be super expensive though. You also have to remember bandits can cut or break up lines relatively easily
Look into Dudemeister's stuff - he's mentioned his Pitax being a Steampunk empire a few times.
Look into Dudemeister's stuff - he's mentioned his Pitax being a Steampunk empire a few times.
Awesome! Will definitely search for his stuff.
Or just make it a grenade launcher.
Normally you can't build improvements in hexes you don't claim. You'll want to decide if you're modifying that - if you don't, then Brevoy etc. can't be competing to build rail lines - only places that are willing to claim hexes would be able to compete. Maybe if you allow building rail lines in non-claimed hexes, you charge double the cost it would be if the hexes were claimed? (Personally, I'd recommend just allowing in claimed hexes only.)
Roads normally are assumed to connect all adjacent hexes that also have roads. I'd recommend you treat rail lines differently, with a cost from center of hex to the center of one adjacent hex, so the lines being built are very specific in where they connect to. And rail bridges should be required at the usual increased cost, completely separate from normal bridges - after all, it takes a lot more infrastructure to support the weight of a train than to let people cross on horseback or with a wagon.
And consider what the cost should be to link up your rail line with someone else's - for example, does Brevoy have a rail line that follows the road past Oleg's? Or do they need to go to Restov to get to the Brevoyan rail? Can you join the lines? Buy a Rail Station to allow people to switch trains at those points? Or some other option?
One thing to work out is, where the railroad is going?
Are you connecting Brevoy with the River Kingdoms river trading routes? Is one focus of the adventure going to be which of the Kingdoms gets to link with the railroad?
Because your only other options are Galt and Numeria, and if you're keeping the political situations the same I can't see either one of those being a good place to link to.
First, check the Ultimate Campaign rules for additional world building. Second, railroads should be double or triple the costs of a highway (highways weren't in the original rules). Third, I would require that railroads are in claimed hexes (otherwise your construction crews would face the danger of the unclaimed hex during construction). Forth, if you are doing a homebrew world, I would change the surrounding kingdoms to support your play style (Pitax is important but Brevoy can be more tangential. Numeria can be any barbarian kingdom or just a mercenary wild land).
One thing to work out is, where the railroad is going?
Are you connecting Brevoy with the River Kingdoms river trading routes? Is one focus of the adventure going to be which of the Kingdoms gets to link with the railroad?
Because your only other options are Galt and Numeria, and if you're keeping the political situations the same I can't see either one of those being a good place to link to.
These are excellent points. To be honest, as I am very much still in the planning stages, I had not really thought about where the rail lines would go to per se. Rather, I just know my players, and know that at some point they'll stumble along the idea of "Ummm, wouldn't it be smart to build our own rail lines?"
Everything right now is obviously flexible as I iron out the details but its a good idea to keep these things in mind. As for Brevoy, my thought is that in many respects, Brevoy will be much the same. The key difference is that in my world, humans are most definitely a minority, having been almost exterminated after being blamed for a curse that caused most male dwarves to become weak and die (longer story). So the thought is that Brevoy is sort of a last bastion of humanity, but has remained stable for a long period of time. The current leaders of Brevoy prefer a "be thankful for what we have" approach while another segment is interested in expanding and ultimately freeing those humans that are enslaved by other kingdoms.
The initial hook will be this expansionist group send the PCs south to explore the wild and untamed "Stolen Lands" a name which can take on even more meaning in this scenario. In part, the goal is to help Brevoy expand, but just as importantly, create a buffer region for Brevoy.
I imagine that at some point the PCs will want a rail line to Rostland, and may well look to add rail lines between their cities if they can afford it.
@Graynore: Excellent points and ones I'll definitely keep in mind as I continue to prepare!
Interesting, what races are in charge in your world?
Tell me more! I'm always interested in settings that aren't humanocentric.
The two primary races, at least in terms of areas of influence, are elves and tieflings. I'm reflavoring tieflings though to be more a cross between elves and demons.
The basic backstory (highly condensed version) is that the humans and dwarves were at war, but the war was more or less at a stalemate. At the height of the stalemate, the male dwarves became suddenly weak and very sick, leading to most of them dying. Humanity, of course was blamed for this (even though nobody can say how it was done) and a large faction of the elves joined the fight due to their outrage over humanity's actions. This faction, combined with the surviving dwarves eventually cornered the forces of humanity and in a great arcane showdown of sorts, much of the human force was destroyed, and a portion was able to escape to the desolate regions to the north. Soon after the showdown, many of the elves at the fight began to transform into tieflings, whether due to a pact that was made, or as a side effect of the arcane energies flying about is uncertain. Either way, the new race of tieflings broke off from the elven nation and the two dominated the land by and large.
The dwarves are slowly rebuilding within their mountain homes and are now a matriarchal society. Their inherit hardiness and longevity enabling them to survive. Humanity has formed a small nation to the north with some wanting them to start to expand again. The other races float in and out more or less as expected with the exception of half orcs which have aligned with humanity as both are still seen as outcasts. This has even lead to humans and orcs to largely ignore each other even if they are not exactly aligned.
I figure an underlying theme in the campaign will be the debate between technology and nature. The tiefling embrace technology for its power but the elves abhor it as they see what it does to nature. Dwarves use it to the extent necessary to help with mining while gnomes are ever curious and among the best innovators. Humans are rapidly embracing technology for protection as well, but even within their ranks there are the naturalists.
Basically, I wanted to diverge from the standard human-centric with elves in the background world, while still supplying most, if not all, the typical races you could find in a normal setting. Hopefully it'll work. :p
As I said up top, I had not really been thinking about Kingmaker as I designed the world, but the more I read through the books (on VV now) and through the forums here, the more I like it and the more I see easy ways to incorporate many of my thoughts. (Yay, for reducing my eventual workload!)
It sounds very promising, please keep us updated.
Is what happened to the dwarves going to be a plot point in your adventure, or are you going to leave it a mystery?
It sounds very promising, please keep us updated.
Is what happened to the dwarves going to be a plot point in your adventure, or are you going to leave it a mystery?
Haven't completely decided yet. I'm a little torn myself as to whether to lift the veil on it so to speak or to let it remain a mystery.
It sounds very promising, please keep us updated.
Is what happened to the dwarves going to be a plot point in your adventure, or are you going to leave it a mystery?
Haven't completely decided yet. I'm a little torn myself as to whether to lift the veil on it so to speak or to let it remain a mystery.
It might be fun to have your PCs go through all sorts of trouble to find out the "truth", only to discover it actually was humanities doing all along. :P
Nice background =) I'm pretty anti-elf myself so I'd probably side with the tieflings just out of spite ;)
It might be fun to have your PCs go through all sorts of trouble to find out the "truth", only to discover it actually was humanities doing all along. :PIt sounds very promising, please keep us updated.
Is what happened to the dwarves going to be a plot point in your adventure, or are you going to leave it a mystery?
Haven't completely decided yet. I'm a little torn myself as to whether to lift the veil on it so to speak or to let it remain a mystery.
Heh, yeah I can definitely be evil like that at times. :) Most likely what I will do is let it play out organically. If the party shows a decent amount of interest in unraveling the mystery, then I will let them learn the "truth". If they could care less, then I may just leave it in the background. If they do want to learn the truth, there's certainly ample room to work it into something like Kingmaker.
@Orthos: Hah, nice. Actually, one of the things I'm hoping to achieve is a "no right answer" scenario. Many of the elves will be fairly militant in their "defense of nature" while the tieflings will simply be arguing its the natural evolution to embrace technology. After all, why leave the power of the mysterious solely in the hands of the mages and clerics when technology can bring everyone up to a more equal footing.
That's an issue that'll come up eventually in my own setting's timeline. At the moment they're a bit prior to the age of steam; gunpowder hasn't even been invented yet. They're close, though.
That's an issue that'll come up eventually in my own setting's timeline. At the moment they're a bit prior to the age of steam; gunpowder hasn't even been invented yet. They're close, though.
Sounds cool. I like the idea of discovering technology during the course of the campaign. While the tech has already been discovered in mine, its still very early. Guns have a habit of just blowing up, rail lines break down, etc. Of course those ever cunning gnomes keep coming up with new ideas, and who knows what the PCs will think of. :)
@Lee Hanna: Thanks for the thoughts! Definitely good points to consider. I agree that rail lines need a purpose in order to be worth it and the first thought that came to my mind was trade routes. The ease of transport to Restov and the like would also apply, but I figure the first thought my players will have is how to make money off the rail lines. Their the kind of group that if you describe a 20 foot tall statue of exquisite make, they'll ask "Yeah, but how much does it weigh? Will it fit in my bag of holding?"
That's an issue that'll come up eventually in my own setting's timeline. At the moment they're a bit prior to the age of steam; gunpowder hasn't even been invented yet. They're close, though.Sounds cool. I like the idea of discovering technology during the course of the campaign. While the tech has already been discovered in mine, its still very early. Guns have a habit of just blowing up, rail lines break down, etc. Of course those ever cunning gnomes keep coming up with new ideas, and who knows what the PCs will think of. :)
One of my players has gotten her character into mechanical tinkering. She also happens to be the longest-lived PC so if she survives the campaign (which the group has been taking more and more precautions to be able to bring back dead PCs) she'll probably advance beyond that post-game, and get into the early bits of mechanical engineering right around the time for my setting's industrial revolution.
That's an issue that'll come up eventually in my own setting's timeline. At the moment they're a bit prior to the age of steam; gunpowder hasn't even been invented yet. They're close, though.@Lee Hanna: Thanks for the thoughts! Definitely good points to consider. I agree that rail lines need a purpose in order to be worth it and the first thought that came to my mind was trade routes. The ease of transport to Restov and the like would also apply, but I figure the first thought my players will have is how to make money off the rail lines. Their the kind of group that if you describe a 20 foot tall statue of exquisite make, they'll ask "Yeah, but how much does it weigh? Will it fit in my bag of holding?"
You could make the railroad a military project.
Assuming the Elven nations still have, and/or have even expanded their network of elf gates, the human military could (and definitely should) jump on the railroads as a counter to the elves ability to deploy their armies through them.