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I'm looking for clarification on the Stonelord's Stone Servant ability. I apologize in advance for all the text.
Stone Servant:
"At 5th level, a Stonelord may call a small earth elemental to her side, as a paladin calls her mount. This earth elemental is Lawful Good in alignment and possesses the celestial template, and it increases in size as the Stonelord gains levels, becoming Medium at 8th level, Large at 11th level, Huge at 14th level, Greater at 17th level, and Elder at 20th level."
"as a paladin calls her mount" is what I am confused about.
A Paladin's Divine Bond:
"The second type of bond allows a paladin to gain the service of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed to serve her in her crusade against evil. This mount is usually a heavy horse (for a Medium paladin) or a pony (for a Small paladin), although more exotic mounts, such as a boar, camel, or dog are also suitable. This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the paladin's level as her effective druid level. Bonded mounts have an Intelligence of at least 6.
Once per day, as a full-round action, a paladin may magically call her mount to her side. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the paladin's level. The mount immediately appears adjacent to the paladin. A paladin can use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every 4 levels thereafter, for a total of four times per day at 17th level."
My question is, does the small earth elemental a Stonelord calls at 5th level use the stats for a small earth elemental with the celestial template and it is summoned once per day as a full round action, OR, are the earth elemental's base stats that of a small elemental and it gains the celestial template PLUS it advances as an animal companion as a Paladins bonded mount does? There is a huge difference between the two.
Any clarification is appreciated, especially if I can get something official on this. Thank you in advance.
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In my opinion I read it as they may call it like a Paladin calls their mount:
Once per day, as a full-round action, a Stonelord may magically call her earth elemental to her side. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the Stonelords's level. The earth elemental immediately appears adjacent to the Stonelord. A Stonelordcan use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every 4 levels thereafter, for a total of four times per day at 17th level.
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What about this aspect?
Should the paladin's mount die, the paladin may not summon another mount for 30 days or until she gains a paladin level, whichever comes first. During this 30-day period, the paladin takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.
Does that apply for the Stonelord's elemental?
If not, can the Stonelord simply summon another elemental the next day?
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What about this aspect?
Should the paladin's mount die, the paladin may not summon another mount for 30 days or until she gains a paladin level, whichever comes first. During this 30-day period, the paladin takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.Does that apply for the Stonelord's elemental?
If not, can the Stonelord simply summon another elemental the next day?
Doesn't appear in the section of the Calling the Paladin's Mount rules quoted, so it looks like it doesn't necessarily apply. At higher levels, the Stonelord could summon an Elemental multiple times a day, so not even a 24 hour wait:
"Once per day, as a full-round action, a Stonelord may magically call her elemental to her side. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the Stonelord's level. The elemental immediately appears adjacent to the Stonelord. A Stonelord can use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every 4 levels thereafter, for a total of four times per day at 17th level."Paraphrased to substitute in Stonelord and elemental...
The whole sentence about what spell level equivalent is only for effects that care what level the spell is, like Globe of Invulnerability. It's not used for any other purpose.
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What about this aspect?
Should the paladin's mount die, the paladin may not summon another mount for 30 days or until she gains a paladin level, whichever comes first. During this 30-day period, the paladin takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.Does that apply for the Stonelord's elemental?
If not, can the Stonelord simply summon another elemental the next day?
I do not believe it does. The elemental is not a divine bond, Stone Servant ability replaces divine bond it doesn't modify it. The as a paladin calls her mount part means it is the same kind of action (full round). Stone Servant is supernatural not spell-like by the way.
Honestly it isn't that great, a cool scout but in subtier 5-6,7-8 a small earth elemental isn't going to do much in combat.
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Ok TwoWolves, so a paladin/stonelord can't call the mount/elemental through and opposing Globe of Invulnerability until character level 12. No objections here.
And Kintrik, if it's just a summoning spell. Would you be able to apply the feat Augmented Summoning as well as other summoning feats?
No since you are not casting a summon spell as required by the feat. That and you are not summoning the elemental you are calling it. These work differently. Summoned creates are limited in both duration and what on what abilities they can use, called creatures are not.
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Nowhere in either ability is the summon monster spell referred to. As I read it the only part that stonelard mimics the paladin is 'calling' (action, daily limits, duration, caster level) the elemental. The elemental itself is different (LG not N) & has the celestial template (not druid AC levels). Also not PFS specific.
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Here's another question to bring to this thread.
What item slots does said earth elemental have?
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I'm assuming that you can put armor around an elemental, which might be a poor assumption. I'm also assuming the poor thing doesn't have a neck, based on the images I've googled.
They can take any form they desire.
Earth elementals are plodding, stubborn creatures made of living stone or earth. When utterly still, they resemble a heap of stone or a small hill.When an earth elemental lumbers into action, its actual appearance can vary, although its statistics remain identical to other elementals of its size. Most earth elementals look like terrestrial animals made out of rock, earth, or even crystal, with glowing gemstones for eyes. Larger earth elementals often have a stony humanoid appearance. Bits of vegetation frequently grow in the soil that makes up parts of an earth elemental's body.
But ya for PFS it would just be barding and neck slot.
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I don't know. Stonelord may spend a full-round action calling it to your side. Seems like a casting time of the summoning spells.
If it's not Divine Bond and it can be called the next day without waiting 30 days and not suffering the -1 att and dmg. Then it looks like a candidate for summoning feats.
By that definition it could also be a coup d'grace or charge or enlarge person. Should I get 2x elementals with no nat 20, an attack action after calling, or become size large when the elemental comes in? :)
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I'm assuming that you can put armor around an elemental, which might be a poor assumption. I'm also assuming the poor thing doesn't have a neck, based on the images I've googled.
They can take any form they desire.
But ya for PFS it would just be barding and neck slot.
Earth elementals are plodding, stubborn creatures made of living stone or earth. When utterly still, they resemble a heap of stone or a small hill.When an earth elemental lumbers into action, its actual appearance can vary, although its statistics remain identical to other elementals of its size. Most earth elementals look like terrestrial animals made out of rock, earth, or even crystal, with glowing gemstones for eyes. Larger earth elementals often have a stony humanoid appearance. Bits of vegetation frequently grow in the soil that makes up parts of an earth elemental's body.
Feat: extra item slot (hands)
Can they UMD scrolls now? As they can take a form that has hands and can speak a language.
Feat: extra item slot (feet)
Can they get some boots of flying and activate them?
etc.
While they are technically ACs for the purposes of mechanics -- they are elementals. Sentient, intelligent(ish) creatures that have these appendages if they wish.
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Skills
They have no UMD or spells lists. Divine bond, stone servant, & the celestial template dinnae change that.
My money is on barding and neck + extra item feat (s).
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The pali's mount references AC & OP included that in his question. I dinnae think it applies to Stone Servant, though others up thread did/do.
EDIT: @WalterGM. Unless an official ruling is made I would let the player choose which "...terrestrial animals made out of rock, earth,..." the elemental resembles and use those stats.
Now that I think about it I think (dinnae have the book myself) the feat in question has the prerequisite of "animal". If so the elemental does not qualify.
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The pali's mount references AC & OP included that in his question. I dinnae think it applies to Stone Servant, though others up thread did/do.
EDIT: @WalterGM. Unless an official ruling is made I would let the player choose which "...terrestrial animals made out of rock, earth,..." the elemental resembles and use those stats.
Now that I think about it I think (dinnae have the book myself) the feat in question has the prerequisite of "animal". If so the elemental does not qualify.
It has a prereq of non humanoid body type. Which elementals can have a humanoid body type if they want.
But still they are not ACs, you don't get to pick the feats they have. They don't get an increase in HD, etc. It just says they are called as a paladin calls her mount. Meaning it is a full round action that has an effective spell level (it is supernatural tho) equal to the paladin. The other paragraphs in the divine bond mount do not apply. If that was the case it would like the ability has a modification to divine bond instead of a complete replacement.
I have a stonelord, and I would love it if the elemental could actually do something. It really should have the advanced/celestial template but it doesn't. We can't change what was written just because it was poorly thought out. All we can do is ask about it and hope Paizo responds. Until they do however in PFS we run as written, which means you are stuck with just a small/medium/large earth elemental that gets a little bit better from the celestial template.
I'm not entirely sure where people are seeing that they function as the paladin's mount for everything.
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I agree with Walter. This has opened up more questions than I initially had, which is good. I would like to get a solid ruling before I hit level 5. Thanks everyone for your input!
It really isn't that hard. It calls a celestial earth elemental. That is it.
There is no animal companion scaling or anything like that. It isn't an AC.
The line about "as a paladin calls her mount" does not make it a divine bond and thus an animal companion. All that is referring to is the action required to call.
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I agree with Walter. This has opened up more questions than I initially had, which is good. I would like to get a solid ruling before I hit level 5. Thanks everyone for your input!It really isn't that hard. It calls a celestial earth elemental. That is it.
There is no animal companion scaling or anything like that. It isn't an AC.
The line about "as a paladin calls her mount" does not make it a divine bond and thus an animal companion. All that is referring to is the action required to call.
So since it isn't an AC, the logic follows that it can take any form, and wear any items you might carry around for it?
Do elementals even use magic items? They seem like they could be too proud for that.
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So since it isn't an AC, the logic follows that it can take any form, and wear any items you might carry around for it?I agree with Walter. This has opened up more questions than I initially had, which is good. I would like to get a solid ruling before I hit level 5. Thanks everyone for your input!It really isn't that hard. It calls a celestial earth elemental. That is it.
There is no animal companion scaling or anything like that. It isn't an AC.
The line about "as a paladin calls her mount" does not make it a divine bond and thus an animal companion. All that is referring to is the action required to call.
As long as you speak terran to talk with it. I don't see a problem with it. If you don't and just hold out some armor and items it may just look at you funny.
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As long as you speak terran to talk with it. I don't see a problem with it. If you don't and just hold out some armor and items it may just look at you funny.So since it isn't an AC, the logic follows that it can take any form, and wear any items you might carry around for it?I agree with Walter. This has opened up more questions than I initially had, which is good. I would like to get a solid ruling before I hit level 5. Thanks everyone for your input!It really isn't that hard. It calls a celestial earth elemental. That is it.
There is no animal companion scaling or anything like that. It isn't an AC.
The line about "as a paladin calls her mount" does not make it a divine bond and thus an animal companion. All that is referring to is the action required to call.
People realizing that they are unable to communicate with their summons provides some of the best "oh crap" reactions I've ever seen.
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I'm not entirely sure where people are seeing that they function as the paladin's mount for everything.
When a sentence reads "Do X in the manner of Y," the relevance of Y is limited exclusively to the manner in which one does X. This is basic sentence structure; so basic, in fact, that most readers understand the meaning of the sentence as a whole without even realizing that they followed this rule - much like how people can successfully write a sentence without being able to differentiate the subject from the object (despite using both in said sentence). Their entire understanding of basic grammar and syntax is subconscious.
Similarly, people often "read" by simply skimming over a portion of text. They don't realize that they've only skimmed, because any "holes" created by the lack of thoroughness in their reading gets filled in by their brains with whatever they expect or assume would be there. This is the same phenomenon which allows yuo to raed thsi phraes despite it containing only one actual word. (Incidentally, this is also the source of a lot of messageboard conflicts involving "if you had actually read my post" and "I did read it!" and "stop putting words in my mouth" and so forth.)
Now combine those two paragraphs: a sentence clearly states something, but one or more persons read it too sloppily and only caught a couple of key nouns and the word "as". Their brains filled in the rest with assumptions/expectations based on what they already know about topics related to the few words they actually read, and a conclusion was reached that is contrary to what is actually stated in the text.
That is how the misunderstanding originates.