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When one PC tries to open the stuck door but isn't strong enough, another PC can assist.
I'm certain that, according to RAW, two or three PCs together can combine their STR to open the door as opposed to, like Diplomacy Checks, merely give a possible +2 to assist.
It makes sense that you can only aid another with a +2 on Diplomacy checks. But if one guy can't pick up a table on his own, two guys together do a heck of a lot better than just an extra +2!
I can certainly see a DM ruling that, in cases where the object is very small, only one PC can attempt (no room for a second) -- or that the object is only large enough for two PCs, not everyone. But I'm absolutely certain that when other PCs assist, they add their STR instead of merely giving a +2.
You need a Level 13 Quest Key to open this flimsy wooden door.
You only get +2 per aid. And even then you need space to get the aid on. Look at useful tools like crowbars and battering rams.
Aid Another
You can help someone achieve success on a skill check by making the same kind of skill check in a cooperative effort. If you roll a 10 or higher on your check, the character you're helping gets a +2 bonus on his or her check. (You can't take 10 on a skill check to aid another.) In many cases, a character's help won't be beneficial, or only a limited number of characters can help at once.
In cases where the skill restricts who can achieve certain results, such as trying to open a lock using Disable Device, you can't aid another to grant a bonus to a task that your character couldn't achieve alone. The GM might impose further restrictions to aiding another on a case-by-case basis as well.
Aid Another
In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.
You can also use this standard action to help a friend in other ways, such as when he is affected by a spell, or to assist another character's skill check.
Breaking Doors: Dungeon doors might be locked, trapped, reinforced, barred, magically sealed, or sometimes just stuck. All but the weakest characters can eventually knock down a door with a heavy tool such as a sledgehammer, and a number of spells and magic items give characters an easy way around a locked door.
Attempts to literally chop down a door with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon use the hardness and hit points given in Table: Doors. When assigning a DC to an attempt to knock a door down, use the following as guidelines.
DC 10 or Lower: a door just about anyone can break open.
DC 11–15: a door that a strong person could break with one try and an average person might be able to break with one try.
DC 16–20: a door that almost anyone could break, given time.
DC 21–25: a door that only a strong or very strong person has a hope of breaking, probably not on the first try.
DC 26 or Higher: a door that only an exceptionally strong person has a hope of breaking.
Looking at the portions of the PRD that directly refer to your question, there seems to be no direct RAW that says multiple people can open a door. Aid another rules specifically talk about skill checks and combat. Opening stuck doors is an ability check, so it does not fall under either category. I also checked the old 3.5 SRD. Nothing there either.
That said, what you mention is something I've always used since 3rd edition. Depending on the width of the door, usually at least one other person can attempt to aid to break the door open.
Portable Ram
Price 10 gp; Weight 20 lbs.
This iron-shod wooden beam gives you a +2 circumstance bonus on Strength checks made to break open a door and allows a second person to help, automatically increasing your bonus by +2.
Normally a second person helping is not allowed. If you have a portable ram, a 2nd character can help, automatically granting a +2 bonus (on top of the +2 from the ram).
Also, it only takes 2 minutes (1roundx20) to take 20 on the str check to break the door.
I don't know why you're so certain. It doesn't work that way.
Consider a decent door, DC 16 to break. Conan the Barbarian wants to smash it with his 24 STR. He needs to roll a 9 or higher, 60% chance. Harry the scrawny teenage wizard offers to help. If Harry gets a 10 or higher on his Aid Another check, he adds +2 to Conan's chance. How much of an increase is that? Conan's chance went from 60% to 70%, that's a 17% increase in his chance of success.
Or another door, this one is super amazing, iron door with reinforced iron bars, DC 26 to open. Even mighty Conan only has a 10% chance to break this door down (and a lesser man has no chance). Harry tries to Aid Another and succeeds (on a 10 or higher), adding +2 to Conan's attempt. How much of an increase is that? Harry just doubled Conan's chance, from 10% to 20%, that's a 100% increase.
So the rules here work just fine when a scrawny teenage wizard can double Conan's chances to break down a hard door.
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Thanks guys.
My certainty comes from -- unless my mind is playing tricks on me -- a question from Sage Advice (the real Sage, Skip Williams). But I could be remembering something from 2E. Or maybe even just an old Player who knew the RAW well enough to trust.
At the very least, we know that according to "absolute" RAW there IS NO RULE, since aid another does not affect Ability Score checks.
Thanks guys.
My certainty comes from -- unless my mind is playing tricks on me -- a question from Sage Advice (the real Sage, Skip Williams). But I could be remembering something from 2E. Or maybe even just an old Player who knew the RAW well enough to trust.
At the very least, we know that according to "absolute" RAW there IS NO RULE, since aid another does not affect Ability Score checks.
The portable ram states it allows another character to help. By implication, this means, without a portable ram, another character cannot help.
It has hp, attack it. Preferably with adamantine.
One of the most annoying things I've dealt with as a GM.
Me: "You come to a door with no discernable way to open it. You think you will need to go through a complicated series of "
PC: "ME SMASH SMASH SMASH!!"
Me: "You eventually break through the door...jerk."
EDIT: Same player also broke through a wall because there was a magic barrier in the way. I dropped the ceiling on him.
Just be glad you don't have a druid with burrow/earth glide.
At the very least, we know that according to "absolute" RAW there IS NO RULE, since aid another does not affect Ability Score checks.
No, there is no RAW that includes ability checks in Aid Another, but the Ability Scores section says this: "Each character has six ability scores that represent his character's most basic attributes. They are his raw talent and prowess. While a character rarely rolls a check using just an ability score, these scores, and the modifiers they create, affect nearly every aspect of a character's [i]skills and abilities.[i]"
That implies that everything is really an ability check, overlaid with other modifiers like skills, BAB, CMB, or whatever. Not RAW, but the implication is there.
Furthermore, it is utterly inconceivable (and yes, that word means exactly what I think it means) that there is no game mechanic for multiple people helping with certain STR checks. For one example, imagine a large tree has fallen across a road. If we insist that the RAW says there is no Aid Another on STR checks, then we get this scenario:
GM: A large tree has fallen, blocking the road. There is no way to get your wagon past it.
Conan: I move the tree.
GM: OK, it's a big tree, dragging it out of the way requires a STR check, DC 30.
Conan: 30? Wow, that's a big tree. I can't roll that high.
GM: Well, then you have to abandon the wagon. Even the horses, since they can't get around or over the tree.
Fezzik: I will help the little whelp.
Inigo: Hallo. I will help too.
Vizzini: Oh all right, I'll help too.
GM: You can't.
Conan: Why not?
GM: There is no way, in this world, for two people to help each other lift or move something heavy.
Vizzini: What do you mean, "no way"? Inconceivable!
GM: Well, you just conceived it, so maybe that word doesn't mean what you think it means.
Obviously, this would actually be inconceivable, at least from the point of view of verisimilitude.
Ergo, allowing Aid Another on ability checks, at least when it makes sense, makes sense.
Now, arguably, a door might be too small for two people to work together at it, since in this world, every character seems to be made of a 5'x5' stack of Legos or something. Arguably, in my previous post, Conan and Harry can only aid each other if the door is wide enough for each of them to try to break it while staying in their own 5' squares.
But then, the 5' square thing is only really applicable in battle, while everyone is ducking and dancing and swinging weapons around, using that much space. Just standing there, nobody smaller than Fezzik really needs 5' of space, and even he didn't need quite 5'. So, equally arguably, Conan and Harry should be able to share the same 5' square when they're not dancing around and wildly swinging weapons in battle, so they should be able to help. Or, equally arguably, Harry could stay in his own 5' square and use a crowbar to pry at the door while Conan smashes it, thereby aiding him without breaking the 5' space rules.
Yep, there's a lot of RAI in there. But I'd hate to be the GM who has to tell Viccini that there is no way for two people to help each other move a heavy tree.
I agree it is RAI, but RAW you can't assist on an ability check.
Also, with his Str of 24, Conan can drag 3500 lbs. Under favorable conditions, that can double to 7000 lbs. So, while they can't directly assist on the drag, they could say, help create favorable conditions (grease under the tree, ropes, other stuff) and help make it so that Conan can drag the tree.
Also RAW, no Str check to drag a tree, merely is it too heavy, or not.
One of the most annoying things I've dealt with as a GM.
Me: "You come to a door with no discernable way to open it. You think you will need to go through a complicated series of "
PC: "ME SMASH SMASH SMASH!!"
Me: "You eventually break through the door...jerk."
This...seriously. Its a door, with low hp and relatively low hardness (especially if you can manage to get a adamantine weapon). Once you're decently leveled you can just take a couple rounds and destory it outright, unless you're trying to be sneaky about things.
Also, killing the barbarian because he knows its more effective to destroy than break down something or find the key or disable the magic is a non-cool thing to do. Change the rules if you need to so its less problematic, set up traps or something if necessary. Especially when the wizard probably has knock.
Edit: I forgot they changed the Knock spell until I saw DM_Blakes post. Now the most effective way is the barbarian skeleton key.
Ohhh, I dunno, back in the old days my Wizard usually kept a Knock spell handy. Now, with watered down DCs, watered UP PCs, and a nearly worthless Knock spell (at any level other than very low, the bonus it gives me to open doors still leaves me worse than just letting Conan do it on his own), I just don't bother with Knock anymore.
It went from the "must have" list to the "why bother?" list. I can always get it through Arcane Bond if some weird corner case comes up.
Reecy, opinions and houserules are wonderful in our home games, but are a little bit out of place in a Rules Questions forum.
Really? Fatigued? One failed attempt to open a door and you have penalties that last all day until you rest for 8 hours? Seems a bit harsh, even for a house rule.
Multiple people can do lots of stuff to a door. The cleric could cast shape wood. The barbarian could sunder. The rogue could disable device the hinges.
What they can't do, is all collectively bash it in.