I feel like Zen Spirit is a little to good for a mystery SR30 for 200 minutes is essentially SR 30 all the time except for when it helps you to not have it on. Making it 10+ 1/2 level or on all the time would be better.
whoops didn't see you there, honestly it's often better to not have SR at all (especially for a divine caster with all those nice buffs) than to have it on all the time. I do think a reduced amount is fair though.
At high levels, I'm not sure an SR below 20 is worth writing down. I ran a high-level fight last night with several participants having a bonus so high that only a roll of 1 or 2 on the caster level check failed to penetrate and we are talking about against SR of 24 and above. I don't think SR 10 + level is outrageous; definitely something you have to account for in your power evaluation, but not an auto-discard for me.
The duration is what I would tweak if it were me, but 200 minutes is far from all day, too. If the character chooses to set it and forget it, he won't have it by noon.
RE: Power or Awareness
1) I'd change the name to Intuitive Awareness (Intuition = Wisdom).
2) "In addition receives a ki pool as the monk class feature, with an effective monk level equal to 1/2 her Open Eyed Oracle level. If she has the Zen Mystery, she may treat her effective monk level as her oracle level-2, for the purposes of Mystery Powers."
So, just to clarify, essentially, the ki pool for the OEO is equal to 1/4 level, and if she has the Zen mystery its equal tio 1/2 level -2, right. If it's equal to 1/2 monk level, that's the same a 1/4 OEO level. And for the other one, it would be equal to 1/2 OEO level -2.
Re: SR
A monk gets SR 10 + level at 13th, but the SR scales with level, just like a drow or other racial SR. However, as the revealtions are not as powerful as necessarily most class features, as they can all be chosen at anywhere from 1st to 20th level, I would reduce the base amount to 5 + level. This gives a max of 25 at 20th vs. 30 at 20th for a Monk. I don;t think it should be as good as the monks own ability, since it is a revelation.
RE: Power or Awareness
1) I'd change the name to Intuitive Awareness (Intuition = Wisdom).
2) "In addition receives a ki pool as the monk class feature, with an effective monk level equal to 1/2 her Open Eyed Oracle level. If she has the Zen Mystery, she may treat her effective monk level as her oracle level-2, for the purposes of Mystery Powers."
So, just to clarify, essentially, the ki pool for the OEO is equal to 1/4 level, and if she has the Zen mystery its equal tio 1/2 level -2, right. If it's equal to 1/2 monk level, that's the same a 1/4 OEO level. And for the other one, it would be equal to 1/2 OEO level -2.
Re: SR
A monk gets SR 10 + level at 13th, but the SR scales with level, just like a drow or other racial SR. However, as the revealtions are not as powerful as necessarily most class features, as they can all be chosen at anywhere from 1st to 20th level, I would reduce the base amount to 5 + level. This gives a max of 25 at 20th vs. 30 at 20th for a Monk. I don;t think it should be as good as the monks own ability, since it is a revelation.
1.agreed' that sounds much better.
2. the ki pool is 1/2 oracle level no matter what mystery. The other half of it it specifically calls out mystery power, which the ki pool isn't. It instead helps zen tread and unarmed strike.SR: that seems perfectly reasonable.
will post revisions in a sec.
Open Eyed Oracle
While most oracles let their words and action influence the world, the Open Eyed Oracle allows the world in. As seekers of enlightenment, you will most often find these Oracles in monasteries and other environments conducive to wisdom. In a golarion setting such oracles are almost always followers of Iori and take the Zen Mystery (see below).
Open Eyed Oracle
Primary:Oracle
Secondary:Monk
skills: 4 + int modifer. The Open Eyed Oracle may select up to 3 skills from the monk list to add to their own.
Diminished Spellcasting: An open eyed oracle gains one less spell known and spell per day every level.
Intuitive Awareness: An Open Eyed Oracle uses her Wisdom modifier instead of her Charsima modifier to determine the effects of her Spells and Mystery class features. In addition receives a ki pool as the monk class feature, with an effective monk level equal to 1/2 her Open Eyed Oracle level. If she has the Zen Mystery, she may treat her effective monk level as her oracle level-2, for the purposes of Mystery Powers.
Recommended Mystery: Zen
Deity: Irori, Sun Wukong
Class Skills: An oracle with the zen mystery adds acrobatics, perception, and stealth to their list of class skills.
Bonus Spells: (2nd) feather fall (4th) spider climb (6th) haste
(8th) resilient sphere (10th) break enchantment(12th) heroism greater
(14th) ethereal jaunt (16th) mind blank (18th) mage’s disjunction
Revelations: An oracle with the zen mystery can choose from any of the following revelations.
Zen Fists: Your fists harden into living weapons. You gain the monk's Unarmed Strike class feature. The oracles effective monk level to determine damage for their Unarmed strike is equal to their oracle level -4 (minimum 1).
Zen Aloofness: You gain a better sense of surrounding danger. You may add your Charisma modifier, instead of your Dexterity modifier, to your Armor Class and CMD. Any condition that would cause you to lose your Dexterity modifier to your Armor Class instead causes you to lose your Charisma modifier to your Armor Class.
Zen Tread: The oracle gains an increase in speed equal to a monk of her oracle level -4(minimum 1). An oracle with the lame curse may not select this revelation.
Zen Grace: A number of times per day equal to their oracle level, and oracle can as a swift action grant themselves a +20 divine bonus to acrobatics checks for one round. This bonus cannot stack with bonuses granted by spending ki points.
Zen Maneuvers: An oracle with this revelation may add their Cha Mod to all CMB checks.
Cleansing Bloodflow: The oracle’s vital fluids are able to fight off poisons. At 1st level they receive a +2 divine bonus on saves vs poison. At 4th level this bonus increase to +4. At 8th level it increases to +6. And at 12th level the oracle gains immunity to all poisons.
Meridian Strike: With a single touch you can stun a foe. You make a single melee touch attack. If successful, the target gains the stunned condition for one round. The target is allowed a Fort save DC 10 + Cha Mod + Half the oracle’s level. A successful save negates the effect. An oracle can use this ability a number of times per day equal to half their oracle level.
Zen Spirit: The oracle gains Spell Resistance 5 + their Oracle level. They can use this ability for 10 minutes per day for every level of oracle they possess in 10 minute increments.
Zen Weaponry: The oracle gains proficiency with all weapons with the monk weapon quality.
Zen Fortune: When making a fortitude, reflex, or will save, an oracle may replace the normal ability modifier with her Charisma Modifier. An oracle can use this ability a number of times per day equal to their oracle level.
Final Revelation
Enlightened Perfection: Upon reaching 20th level, the oracle becomes a zen master. Free from the constraints of reality, they become immune to compulsions and mind-influencing effects. Additionally, they become immune to fatigue and exhaustion.
I am fine with 5 + level, SR 30 just seemed a little high.
Looking over the Zen Mystery, what really is the point of the Ki Pool? Many of the revelations duplicate the monk abilities, and are usable x/day or for x round/minute per day. So it seems redundant to have the ki pool. The only aspect I can see keeping the ki pool would be granting the unarmed strike benefits (magic, cold iron, etc). The rest of the ki pool stuff is already incorporated into the mystery.
Here's what I propose.
1) We grant OEO the Unarmed Srike ability at 1st level, but it only deals 1d6 damage (no scaling, we leave that to the Zen mystery)
2) OEO gains a ki pool equal to 1/2 level (no Wis mod) at 5th level. She can use the the ki pool to make 1 extra attack with his unarmed strike (instead of Flurry which she doesn't have).
3) Gains ki pool (magic) at 9th, ki pool (cold iron) at 13th), and ki pool (lawful) at 17th). Does not gain the ki pool (adamantine)
I would also suggest separating the Intuitive Awareness ability and Ki Pool. Changed alignement to any nonchaotic.
I also reworked some of the revelations, wording, etc. Some seemed a bit over powered, but take a look.
*Aside: Though about changing the name to Wide Eyed Oracle? :D
Here's my tweaked
While most oracles let their words and action influence the world, the open eyed oracle allows the world in. As seekers of enlightenment, will find open eyed oracles in monasteries and other environments conducive to imparting wisdom and understanding. In the Golarion setting, open eyed oracles are almost always followers of Iori and take the Zen Mystery (see below).
Primary Class: Oracle.
Secondary Class: Monk.
Alignment: Any nonchaotic.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The open eyed oracle may select three monk skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal oracle class skills. The open eyed oracle gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The open eyed oracle is proficient with all simple, light armor, and shields.
Diminished Spellcasting: The open eyed oracle casts divine spells drawn from the oracle spell list, and gains one fewer spell of each spell level per day. She also gains bonus spells for a high Wisdom score. She otherwise learns, prepares, and casts spells as an oracle of equal level.
Intuitive Awareness: An open eyed oracle uses Wisdom instead of Charsima to determine the effects of her spells and mystery class features.
Unarmed Strike: At 1s level, an open eyed oracle gains the monk’s unarmed strike ability, except that her unarmed damage is 1d6, and does not increase as she gains levels. This ability and ki pool replace spell lost due to diminished spellcasting.
Ki Pool (Su): At 5th level, an open eyed oracle gains a pool of ki points. This is similar to the monk class feature except for the following changes. The number of points in an open eyed oracle’s ki pool is equal to 1/2 her open eyed oracle level. If the open eyed oracle selects the Zen mystery, her effective monk level is equal to her open eyed oracle level –2 for the purposes of determining the effects of her mystery powers.
By spending 1 point from her ki pool, an open eyed oracle can do one of the following:
• Make one additional attack at her highest attack bonus when making an unarmed strike, or
• Give herself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round.
At 9th level, as long as she has at least 1 point in her ki pool, he can make a ki strike.
• At 9th level, ki strike allows her unarmed attacks to be treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
• At 13th level, her unarmed attacks are also treated as cold iron and silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
• At 17th level, her unarmed attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Each of these powers is activated as a swift action. The ki pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive.
Table: Open Eyed Oracle
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Intuitive awareness, mystery, oracle’s curse, 2 — — — — — — — —
orisons, revelation, unarmed strike (1d6)
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Mystery spell 3 — — — — — — — —
3rd +2 +1 +1 +3 Revelation 4 — — — — — — — —
4th +3 +1 +1 +4 Mystery spell 5 2 — — — — — — —
5th +3 +1 +1 +4 Ki pool 5 3 — — — — — — —
6th +4 +2 +2 +5 Mystery spell 5 4 2 — — — — — —
7th +5 +2 +2 +5 Revelation 5 5 3 — — — — — —
8th +6/+1 +2 +2 +6 mystery spell 5 5 4 2 — — — — —
9th +6/+1 +3 +3 +6 Ki pool (magic) 5 5 5 3 — — — — —
10th +7/+2 +3 +3 +7 Mystery spell 5 5 5 4 2 — — — —
11th +8/+3 +3 +3 +7 Revelation 5 5 5 5 3 — — — —
12th +9/+4 +4 +4 +8 Mystery spell 5 5 5 5 4 2 — — —
13th +9/+4 +4 +4 +8 Ki pool (cold iron) 5 5 5 5 5 3 — — —
14th +10/+5 +4 +4 +9 mystery spell 5 5 5 5 5 4 2 — —
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +9 Revelation 5 5 5 5 5 5 3 — —
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 Mystery spell 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 2 —
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 Ki pool (lawful) 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 3 —
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +11 Mystery spell 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 2
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Revelation 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 3
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Final revelation 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5
This mystery compliments the open eyed oracle multiclass archetype.
Class Skills: An oracle with the zen mystery adds Acrobatics, Perception, and Stealth to her list of class skills.
Bonus Spells: feather fall (2nd), spider climb (4th), haste (6th), resilient sphere (8th), break enchantment (10th), heroism (greater) (12th), ethereal jaunt (14th), mind blank (16th), mage’s disjunction (18th).
Revelations: An oracle with the zen mystery can choose from any of the following revelations.
Cleansing Blood: Your very lifeblood grants you the ability to resist the effects of toxins and poisons. At 1st level, you gains a +2 bonus on all saving throws against poisons. This bonus increases to +4 at 4th level, and then again to +6 at 8th level. At 12th level, you gain immunity to all poisons.
Meridian Strike: With a single touch you can stun a foe. You make a single melee touch attack. If successful, the target gains the stunned condition for one round. The target is allowed a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + your Charisma modifier + 1/2 your oracle level). A successful save negates the effect. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1/2 your level.
Zen Aloofness: You gain a better sense of surrounding danger. You may add your Charisma modifier instead of your Dexterity modifier when determining your Armor Class and CMD. If you gain any conditions that would cause you to lose your Dexterity modifier to your Armor Class, you lose your Charisma modifier to your Armor Class.
Zen Fists: Your fists harden into living weapons. You gain the monk's Unarmed Strike class feature and have an effective monk level equal to your level –4 (minimum 1) when determining your Unarmed strike damage.
Zen Fortune: When making a Fortitude, Reflex, or Will save, you may replace the normal ability modifier with your Charisma Modifier. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to your oracle level.
Zen Grace: As a swift action, you can grant yourself a +20 bonus to all Acrobatic’s skill checks made to jump for 1 round. If you have the ki pool class feature, this bonus does not stack with any bonus to Acrobatics skill checks granted by the pool. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier.
Zen Maneuvers: You add your Charisma modifier to all CMB checks.
Zen Spirit: You gain spell resistance equal to 5 + your oracle level. You can use this ability for 10 minutes per day for every oracle level you possess. These minutes do not need to be consecutive but must be used in 10–minute increments.
Zen Tread: You can increase your base land speed by a number of feet equal to your oracle level for a number of minutes per day equal to your level. These minutes do not need to be consecutive but must be spent in 1–minute increments. If you have chosen the lame curse, you may not select this revelation.
Zen Weaponry: You gain proficiency with all weapons with the monk weapon quality.
Final Revelation: Upon reaching 20th level, you become a zen master. Free from the constraints of reality, you become immune to compulsion and mind-influencing spells and effects. In addition, you become immune to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
the archetype itself looks good. Not a fan of zen tread though, you get the land speed of a 6th level monk...and even with haste it's not that much better.
Then let's do this. It's more Monk-esque, but based upon the barbarian's fast movement. Also gives her a permanent bonus to speed.
Zen Tread: Your land speed increases by +10 feet. Your land speed increases by an additional +5 feet at 8th level, and again at 16th level, up to a maximum of +20 feet. This benefit applies only when you are wearing no armor, light armor, and not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying your speed because of any load carried or armor worn. This bonus stacks with any other bonuses to your land speed.
I like that much better, mainly because you see a real benefit before 20th. I do like wide eyed as an idea, I also could go with Openminded Oracle. I leave that part in the air to see how it sounds to people.
It seems that the Open Eyed Oracle is pretty much done. Barring a name change. :D
Now, I must appologize to OSW, and to the rest of the thread, I jumped the gun in thinking the Simbiote Gunner would need to be put on the back burner for now, but its seems I was gravely mistaken. So I must back peddle and say that OSW's Simbiote Gunner is next in the cue, so Bardess, appologies, your's will need to wait until his is done. :D
So, either tomorrow or Monday, OSW, you are welcome to post your MCA. I say we give this one until tomorrowe afternoon, then you can post up the Simbiote Gunner.
Wow; you guys managed to sort an MCA while I was asleep (damn time zones differences).
@Elghinn, there's also a Samurai/Wizard MCA that Iorthol and I have been discussing via PMs, however I have a different draft of it from each of us. When do you want it posted? I'm also updating my Google Doc to include the latest versions of the Arcane Hunter and Open Eyed Oracle.
@Elghinn: Not gravely mistaken... I'm happy for Bardess to post the Heretic Theologist first, then when that's finished we can tackle the Symbiote Gunner....
Here!
While heresies emerge within the various religions in several different forms, most orders have a history of exacting punishment upon those who become perverted or those bold souls who neither accept nor live according to the dictates of their order’s dogma. Despite this, some heretics boldly proclaim their heretical views in open opposition towards the ecclesiastical hierarchy of their church, while others strictly adhere to their order’s teachings, posing as pious practitioners of the faith in an attempt to influence the masses, and guide them towards the new light and understanding they have received. Although the heretic theologist is not necessarily opposed to the leaders or doctrines of his faith, he does believe he has found a different path to honoring his god–one that deals with abstract mysteries, binding pacts, and secret initiations meant to reveal greater understanding of the divine being they claim to worship. The heretic theologist continues to receive spells from his god, while simultaneously gaining access to more mysterious and eldritch abilities, all of which stem from the same divine source. While genuine seekers of divine truth view this as a sign that the heretic theologist has found a new path towards greater enlightenment, he is often viewed as confused and misguided by his superiors as pertaining to the truths and doctrines sanctioned by his order.
Primary Class: Cleric.
Secondary Class: Witch.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The heretic theologist may select three witch skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal cleric class skills. The heretic theologist gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 2 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The heretic theologist is proficient with all simple weapons and the favored weapon of his deity. He is also proficient with light armor, medium armor, and with shields (except tower shields).
Spellcasting: A heretic theologist casts both divine spells drawn from the cleric spell list, and gains additional spells from the witch spell list, as described in the Familiar entry below. A heretic theologist can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day, but uses his daily allotment of spells to cast both his cleric and witch spells. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Heretic theologist. He also receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Wisdom score.
Domain: This is exactly like the cleric ability of the same name, except that the heretic theologist gains access to only a single domain among those granted by her deity. The heretic theologist may also select the new Witchcraft domain, even if her deity doesn’t normally grant it.
Familiar (Ex): At 1st level, a heretic theologist gains the witch’s familiar ability. This familiar is actually a little-known aspect of his deity and grants him the ability to cast witch spells as divine magic instead of arcane. Like other witches, the heretic theologist must commune with his familiar each day to prepare his witch spells. The heretic theologist selects a number of 0-level witch spells equal to his Intelligence modifier (minimum 1), plus a number of 1st-level witch spells equal to his Intelligence modifier to store in his divine familiar. At each new heretic theologist level, he adds one new witch spell of any spell level or levels that he can cast (based on his new heretic theologist level) to his familiar. If the divine familiar is lost or dies, the heretic theologist can no longer cast witch spells until he replaces it (see Familiars in the Core Rulebook). The new familiar knows all the witch spells known by the previous familiar. This ability replaces spontaneous casting.
Patron: At 1st level, a heretic theologist may select a patron from those listed in the witch class description. He adds his patron spells to his list of domain spells and casts them in his domain spell slots.
Sanctioned Heresy: Due to his unorthodox view of faith and religion, a gnostic philosopher can have a very different alignment from his deity, without losing his powers. However, an evil cleric of a good deity would soon attract the wrath of his church once discovered (and the other way round).
At 1st level, a heretic theologist can cast spells that oppose his moral or ethical beliefs without reprisal from his deity. Once per day, a heretic theologist may cast a cleric or witch spell that opposes his alignment or that of his deity (see Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful spells). At 4th level and every three levels thereafter, the heretic theologist can cast such spells an additional time per day, up to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level. This ability replaces channel energy 1d6 and 5d6.
Hex: At 2nd level, a heretic theologist gains the witch’s hex ability. He may choose a hex at 2nd level and again at 6th level and every six levels thereafter. At 12th level, whenever he could select a hex, he can choose a major hex instead. At 18th level, whenever he could select a hex, he can choose a grand hex instead. This ability and patron replace the cleric’s second domain.
Channel Energy (Su): This is exactly like the cleric ability of the same name, except that the heretic theologist channels energy up to a maximum of 8d6, as indicated on Table: Heretic theologist.
Domains: The following domains complement the heretic theologist multiclass archetype: Knowledge, Luck, Magic, Madness, and Rune.
Patrons: The following patrons complement the heretic theologist multiclass archetype: Ancestors, Boundaries, Deception, Devotion, Enchantment, Fate, Healing, Insanity, Occult, Portents, Spirits, Trickery, and Wisdom.
NEW SUBDOMAIN
The following new subdomain may be selected by anyone with the domain class feature, and complements the heretic theologist multiclass archetype.
Witchcraft Subdomain
Associated domain: Magic.
Replacement Power: The following granted power replaces the dispelling touch power of the Magic domain.
Esoteric Knowledge (Su): At 8th level, you can choose one witch hex. At 12th and again at 16th level, you can choose an additional witch hex (but not a major hex or grand hex). You can use these hexes as a witch equal to 1/2 your cleric level. If you have levels in the witch, these levels stack for the purpose of determining your hex use.
Replacement Domain Spells: 2nd–owl’s wisdom, 3rd–bestow curse, 6th–major curse.
Table: Heretic Theologist
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Aura, familiar, domain, orisons, 3 1+1 — — — — — — — —
patron, sanctioned heresy
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Hex 4 2+1 — — — — — — — —
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Channel energy 1d6 4 2+1 1+1 — — — — — — —
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 4 3+1 2+1 — — — — — — —
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Channel energy 2d6 4 3+1 2+1 1+1 — — — — — —
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Hex 4 3+1 3+1 2+1 — — — — — —
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Channel energy 3d6 4 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 — — — — —
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 4 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 — — — — —
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Channel energy 4d6 4 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 — — — —
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 4 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 — — — —
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 — — —
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Hex, major hex 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 — — —
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Channel energy 5d6 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 — —
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 — —
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Channel energy 6d6 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 —
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Channel energy 7d6 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Hex, grand hex 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Channel energy 8d6 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1
#Heretic Theologist:
Interesting!
* I'm still lost as to how the spellcasting works. I get that it is all divine, whether witch or cleric, and I like the patron spells bit (not sure she should get both patron and domain spells) and I get that the HT must commune with the familiar for the divine witch spells. How does she get the normal cleric spells? If not by communing with the familiar, why not? Seems simpler to roll the preparation into one vehicle rather than keeping the two classes spells separate.
Maybe Raider or someone else might have a further opinion on combining the witch and cleric spell lists...
* Channeling gets very strange at between 4d6 and 5d6 - it jumps four levels instead of two between 9 and 13 - is this intentional?
* Sanctioned heresy - I don't see this as being very powerful, and it feels very complicated. I'd just go with a Pragmatic Spellcasting that removes the caveat about alignment altogether. I don't think it's worth anything at all as a swap.
My understanding of the Patron/ domain spells was that the patron spells acted like one of the 2 domains that a cleric normally gets and that at the start of the day the Heretic Theologist can choose one of the 2 spells domain/ patron to have prepared in the special domain slot.
My understanding of the Patron/ domain spells was that the patron spells acted like one of the 2 domains that a cleric normally gets and that at the start of the day the Heretic Theologist can choose one of the 2 spells domain/ patron to have prepared in the special domain slot.
Yes, that was my idea.
#Heretic Theologist:
@Bardess - how about my other comments regarding the familiar/source of preparation; channeling looking strange on the progression table; Sanctioned Heresy?
I'm just popping by to say THANK YOU and WELL DONE to +5 Toaster, Elghinn Lightbringer, and everyone else who used my Zen Mystery of Irori idea and put their own spin on it. So far, I really dig all that you've posted.
And I cannot stress enough that ANY idea I post in these threads is fair game for improvements and creative adjustments by ANYONE. All I ever ask is that I be credited as the concept/idea guy. Keep up the great work, everybody. Peace.
I've done some tweaking and reshuffling of abilities. I also made all the male references to female, since this is a lceric primary (which is a female iconic character). Made some changes to swaps as well. OSW, while the ability to cast spells opposed to your/deity's alignment may seem petty, it is actually a benefit that requires some sort of swap. I also took into account some of your suggestions of the abilities and made some clarifications and streamlined some things. Made a slight change to Witchcraft Subdomain too.
While heresies emerge within the various religions in several different forms, most orders have a history of exacting punishment upon those who become perverted or those bold souls who neither accept nor live according to the dictates of their order’s dogma. Despite this, some heretics boldly proclaim their heretical views in open opposition towards the ecclesiastical hierarchy of their church, while others strictly adhere to their order’s teachings, posing as pious practitioners of the faith in an attempt to influence the masses, and guide them towards the new light and understanding they have received. Although the heretic theologist is not necessarily opposed to the leaders or doctrines of his faith, he does believe he has found a different path to honoring her god–one that deals with abstract mysteries, binding pacts, and secret initiations meant to reveal greater understanding of the divine being they claim to worship. The heretic theologist continues to receive spells from his god, while simultaneously gaining access to more mysterious and eldritch abilities, all of which stem from the same divine source. While genuine seekers of divine truth view this as a sign that the heretic theologist has found a new path towards greater enlightenment, she is often viewed as confused and misguided by her superiors as pertaining to the truths and doctrines sanctioned by her order.
Primary Class: Cleric.
Secondary Class: Witch.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The heretic theologist may select three witch skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal clerci class skills. The heretic theologist gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 2 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The heretic theologist is proficient with all simple weapons and the favored weapon of her deity. She is also proficient with light armor, medium armor, and with shields (except tower shields).
Spellcasting: A heretic theologist casts divine spells drawn from the cleric spell list and a number of additional spells drawn from the witch spell list. Like other spellcasters, a heretic theologist can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Heretic Theologist. To prepare her spells, she must commune with her divine familiar (see Divine Familiar), and casts any witch’s spells that she has prepared as divine spells. A heretic theologist otherwise casts spells as a cleric equal to her heretic theologist level. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score.
Domain: This is exactly like the cleric ability of the same name, except that the heretic theologist gains access to only a single domain among those granted by her deity. The heretic theologist may also select the new Witchcraft domain, even if her deity doesn’t normally grant it.
Heretic’s Familiar (Ex): At 1st level, a heretic theologist gains the witch’s familiar ability. However, unlike a normal witch’s familiar, hers is actually an aspect of her deity that serves as a divine conduit directly to her deity. In this way, she is able to work outside the normal confines of her church’s hierarchy and serve her deity as she sees fit without reprisal from other members of her church’s clergy.
A heretic theologist must commune with her familiar each day to prepare her spells. A heretic theologist’s familiar begins play storing all 0–level and 1st–level cleric spells (including all subsequent levels of cleric spells as she gains experience), and all 0–level witch’s spells. The heretic theologist also selects a number of additional 1st-level witch spells equal to her Wisdom modifier to store in her familiar. At each new heretic theologist level, she adds one new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new heretic theologist level) from the witch’s spell list to her familiar. However, unlike a witch’s familiar, a heretic theologist cannot add additional witch’s spells to her familiar through any ritual or similar method. If the familiar is lost or dies, the heretic theologist can no longer cast witch spells, but continues to cast cleric spells with a –2 penalty to her caster level until she replaces it (see Familiars in the Core Rulebook). The new familiar knows all the witch spells known by the previous familiar. This ability replaces channel energy 1d6, 5d6, and 9d6.
Patron: At 1st level, a heretic theologist selects a patron from those listed in the witch class description. Her chosen patron is considered her second domain and adds her patron spells to her list of domain spells. She can cast any patron spells their equivalent domain spell slots as if they were domain spells. This ability and hex replace the cleric’s second domain.
Sanctioned Heresy: A heretic theologist has an unorthodox view on faith, religion, and moral ethics in regards to her deity’s alignment and domains of influence. Beginning at 1st level, a heretic theologist can cast a cleric or witch spell that opposes his alignment or that of his deity (see Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful spells) once per day. At 4th level and every three levels thereafter, a heretic theologist can cast such spells an additional time per day, up to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level. This ability replaces spontaneous casting.
Channel Energy (Su): This is exactly like the cleric ability of the same name, except that the amount of damage dealt or healed by the heretic theologist is equal to 1d6 points of damage at 2nd level, plus 1d6 points of damage for every three heretic theologist levels beyond 2nd (2d6 at 5th, 3d6 at 8th, and so on), as indicated on Table: Heretic Theologist.
Hex: At 3rd level, a heretic theologist gains the witch’s hex ability. She may choose a hex at 3rd level and again at 6th level and every six levels thereafter. At 12th level, whenever she could select a hex, she can choose a major hex instead.
Domains: The following domains complement the heretic theologist multiclass archetype: Knowledge, Luck, Magic, Madness, and Rune.
Patrons: The following patrons complement the heretic theologist multiclass archetype: Ancestors, Boundaries, Deception, Devotion, Enchantment, Fate, Healing, Insanity, Occult, Portents, Spirits, Trickery, and Wisdom.
NEW SUBDOMAIN
The following new subdomain may be selected by anyone with the domain class feature, and complements the heretic theologist multiclass archetype.
Witchcraft Subdomain
Associated Domain: Magic.
Replacement Power: The following granted power replaces the dispelling touch power of the Magic domain.
Esoteric Knowledge (Su): At 8th level, you can choose one witch hex. At 16th level you can choose an additional witch hex (but not a major hex or grand hex). You can use these hexes as a witch equal to 1/2 your cleric level. If you have levels in a class that grants the hex ability, these levels stack for the purpose of determining your hex use.
Replacement Domain Spells: 2nd–owl’s wisdom, 3rd–bestow curse, 6th–major curse.
Table: Heretic Theologist
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Aura, domain, heretic’s familiar, orisons, 3 1+1 — — — — — — — —
patron, sanctioned heresy 1/day
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Channel energy 1d6 4 2+1 — — — — — — — —
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Hex 4 2+1 1+1 — — — — — — —
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Sanctioned heresy 2/day 4 3+1 2+1 — — — — — — —
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Channel energy 2d6 4 3+1 2+1 1+1 — — — — — —
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Hex 4 3+1 3+1 2+1 — — — — — —
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Sanctioned heresy 3/day 4 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 — — — — —
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Channel energy 3d6 4 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 — — — — —
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 4 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 — — — —
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Sanctioned heresy 4/day 4 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 — — — —
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 Channel energy 4d6 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 — — —
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Hex, major hex 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 — — —
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Sanctioned heresy 5/day 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 — —
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Channel energy 5d6 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 — —
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Sanctioned heresy 6/day 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 —
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Channel energy 6d6 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Hex 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Sanctioned heresy 7/day 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Channel energy 7d6 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1
I'm just popping by to say THANK YOU and WELL DONE to +5 Toaster, Elghinn Lightbringer, and everyone else who used my Zen Mystery of Irori idea and put their own spin on it. So far, I really dig all that you've posted.
And I cannot stress enough that ANY idea I post in these threads is fair game for improvements and creative adjustments by ANYONE. All I ever ask is that I be credited as the concept/idea guy. Keep up the great work, everybody. Peace.
I'm glad you like what we've done with your work. And don't worry, if it goes on the wiki or in a pdf, you will get credit for it. That's someting we try hard to do.
# Heretic Theologist
@Elghinn
I'm pretty satisfied of the build as it is, except that I would make clear that the cleric's alignment restrictions don't apply to the Heretic- since she's an heretic. Of course, if the official church of Iomedae finds out a CE cleric/witch among their ranks, she would probably be hunted and put at the stake.
I'll re-add that in Bardess. That's a good point. So, the HT's ultimate thing is serving her deity through "whatever means necessary" outside of the church hierarchy, but obviously her deity knows of couse.
So Tristam passed on his monk bloodline to me...that seems to happen to me a lot.
P. S. I based the Witchcraft subdomain on Rage: raging at 8th level, rage powers at 12th and 16th. The Hexcrafter magus too takes one Hexcrafter more at 4th level in exchange for spell recall. Do you feel that three hexes are too much?
#Heretic Theologist
Well, having looked at the Rage subdomain ti sets a precedent, so I would say three hexes should be fine. So let's add back in the 8th, 12th, and 16th level hexes.
If there isn't anything else, I'd say the Heretic Theologist is done.
So, all we have currently in the cue is the Symbiote Gunner (OSW) and the Remorseless Assassin (Kyras). After those are done, we will be moving onto a new thread, so just a heads up to everyone else. This thread is getting big, and the new thread will function as both a platform for new MCAs, and a reworking for the (*)MCAs on the wiki.
So, any new ideas for MCAs, hold onto them until the new thread. Toaster, that's you and the bloodline from Tristam (if you want to do a new MCA, or a if you just want to have it as an alternate bloodline for one of our Mnk/Sor or Sor/Mnk MCAs), and Alfray, that's yours and Iothol's Samurai/Wizard. I 'll put those first up on the next thread's cue. There will be some stringent guidelines for posting new MCAs and reworking the old MCAs, which i will post on the first post of the new thread. With all the MCAs and consistent posters currently involved, we'll need to stick to some strick guidelines or things will self destruct.
@Arcanemuses - nice to see you popping up here, and thanks for the support and "carte blanche with credit" on your ideas.
#Heretic Theologist:
Looks much cleaner and easier to understand.
So the Witchcraft domain power gives access to another hex. That seems fine. I'm not sure I get the caster level bit. For a HT, is it her HT level? ;p my only other thought is to make the use of that hex limited to a number of times/day, but that actually seems to go against the ethos of hexes anyway.
# Symbiote-Gunner
Okay so this one is a major monster to read through so thanks ahead of time!
Specifically I'm wanting you guys to help me determine:
- how many chitin rounds per day the symbiote gunner should get?
- should the melee attack damage with the chrysalis projector scale up also?
- how does the damage and effect look for particular Maneuvers?
- I'm sure you guys can tear any other strips off this...
As an aid to memory:
- A chitin round is the unliving ammunition;
- A larvae chrysalis is the living "seed";
- A chrysalis beast is what emerges from the larvae chrysalis.
Symbiote-gunner
Whether forcibly melded with an alien lifeform or connected to a benign associate in a harmonious symbiotic relationship, the symbiont extends the concept of life form or even race. The symbiote-gunner is a combat-heavy, battlefield focused class option – there is little here to offer subterfuge or diplomacy. In combination with his exo-carapace and chrysalis projector, the symbiote-gunner shoots first and asks no questions….
Primary Class: Summoner
Secondary Class: Gunslinger
Skill Ranks 2 + int modifier. Adds three gunslinger class skills to Summoner list.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: All simple weapons and light armor.
Critical Hit with Chrysalis Projector: (as gunslinger)
Chrysalis kill: If the symbiote gunner’s chitin round or chrysalis beast reduces a creature to… (as gunslinger)
This ability replaces life link and lost spellcasting and cantrip capabilities.
A symbiote-gunner performs bio-enhancements drawn from the symbiote-gunner’s bio-enhancement list. He can perform any bio-enhancement he knows without preparing it ahead of time, assuming he has not yet used up his allotment of bio-enhancements per day for the bio-enhancement’s level, or expended all the points in his bio-energy pool.
To learn or create a bio-enhancement, the symbiote-gunner must have a Constitution score equal to at least 10 + the bio-enhancement level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a symbiote-gunner’s bio-enhancement is 10 + the bio-enhancement level + the symbiote-gunner’s Constitution modifier.
A symbiote-gunner can cast only a certain number of enhancements of each enhancement level each day. His base daily enhancement allotment is given on Table: Symbiote-gunner. In addition, he receives bonus enhancements per day if he has a high Constitution score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Enhancements).
A symbiote-gunner’s selection of enhancements is extremely limited. A symbiote-gunner begins play knowing four 0-level bio enhancements (motes) and two 1st-level bio-enhancements of the symbiote-gunner’s choice. At each new symbiote-gunner level, he gains one or more new bio-enhancements as indicated on Table: Symbiote-gunner Bio-enhancements Known.
(Unlike bio-enhancements per day, the number of bio-enhancements a symbiote-gunner knows is not affected by his Constitution score. The numbers on Table: Symbiote-gunner Bio-enhancements Known are fixed.)
Upon reaching 5th level, and at every third symbiote-gunner level thereafter (8th, 11th, and so on), a symbiote-gunner can choose to learn a new bio-enhancement in place of one he already knows. In effect, the symbiote-gunner “loses” the old bio-enhancement in exchange for the new one. The new enhancement’s level must be the same as that of the bio-enhancement being exchanged, and it must be at least one level lower than the highest-level symbiote-gunner bio-enhancement he can cast. A symbiote-gunner may swap out only a single bio-enhancement at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the bio-enhancement at the same time that he gains new bio-enhancements known for the level. This ability replaces the Summoner’s spell use.
Firing the chrysalis projector is a standard action, firing the chrysalis projector on all iterative attacks due to BAB is a full round action as normal. The chrysalis projector fires small, cocoon shaped projectiles called chitin rounds that deal 1d6+1 points of bludgeoning damage +1 for every three levels the symbiote-gunner possesses, and have a critical range of 20/x2. The chrysalis projector has a range of 20 feet, plus an additional 5 feet at 2nd level and every two levels thereafter.
A symbiote-gunner can create a number of chitin rounds per day equal to 4 plus his Constitution modifier. At each level after 1st, he can create 2 additional chitin rounds per day. (Temporary increases to Constitution such as those gained from bear’s endurance do not increase the total number of chitin rounds that a symbiote-gunner can create per day.)
Alternatively the symbiote-gunner may elect to use his chrysalis projector as a melee weapon (either one- or two-handed) that deals 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage, and has a critical range of 20/x2.
The chrysalis projector can be enchanted and enhanced with weapon qualities as a masterwork weapon at the cost of the symbiote-gunner. While manifested, the chrysalis projector takes up one of the symbiote-gunner’s hand and wrist item slots. All abilities of any magical items occupying these slots at the time of the chrysalis projector’s manifestation are temporarily suppressed until it is retracted.
Retracting the chrysalis projector requires a standard action. While the chrysalis projector is subsumed within the exo-carapace the symbiote-gunner receives an extra +1 to his exo-carapace’s natural armor bonus due to the redistribution of bio-matter.
At 7th level, the symbiote-gunner can manifest the chrysalis projector as a standard action, and retract it as a swift action.
At 14th level, the symbiote-gunner can manifest the chrysalis projector as a swift action, and retract it as a free action.
This ability and maneuvers replaces eidolon and the diminished summoning cabability of spawn larvae.
Any maneouvres that require a saving throw has a DC equal to 10 + 1/2 the symbiote-gunner’s level + the symbiote-gunner’s Constitution modifier.
Augmentation: By expending one point from his bio-energy pool the symbiote gunner can add the effect of one mote that he knows to his chitin rounds for 1 round.
Close-shot: As long as the symbiote-gunner has at least one point in his bio-energy pool he is considered to have the Point Blank shot feat.
Damage Modifications: The symbiote-gunner can add either the slashing or piercing damage type to his chitin rounds for 1 round.
Enlarged Chrysalis: At 4th level the symbiote-gunner can spend one point from his bio-energy pool to increase his chitin rounds base dice damage to 1d8 for 1 round.
Ballistic Larvae: At 4th level, the symbiote-gunner can meld his larva-chrysalis and chitin rounds for one round. Any larvae chrysalis fired that make a successful attack roll strike the target before unfurling causing damage as a chitin round (1d6 damage +1 for every three symbiote-gunner levels). After striking the target, the unfurled chrysalis beast lands in the nearest adjacent square (or in the same square as the target if tiny) and is staggered for 2 rounds. This maneouvre costs one bio-energy point.
Retriever: At 8th level the symbiote-gunner can modify one chitin round so that it trails a fine filament that connects it directly to the chrysalis projector. On a successful hit, the symbiote-gunner may attempt to grapple the target as if he had the Improved Grapple feat. If the attempt is successful, the retriever chrysalis attaches itself to the target who gains the grappled condition. As a standard action, the symbiote-gunner can draw the target towards himself at the rate of 10 feet per round. As a standard action, a grappled creature can rip the retriever chrysalis free with a DC 20 Strength check. A retriever chrysalis filament is AC 14 (touch 12), has 5 hit points, and has DR 15/slashing. A symbiote-gunner can have only one retriever chrysalis active at a time. This maneouvre costs one bio-energy point.
Spatterbug: At 8th level the symbiote-gunner modifies one larva chrysalis so that it explodes on impact. All creatures occupying or that are adjacent to the impact square receive 1d4 points of piercing damage +1 point of damage for every two levels the symbiote-gunner possesses. Each creature that takes damage can make a Fortitude save for half the damage. If the saving throw fails, the creature takes an additional 1d4 points of acid damage and becomes shaken for 1 round per level of the symbiote-gunner. This maneouvre costs one bio-energy point.
Burrower: At 8th level the symbiote-gunner modifies one chitin round or larva chrysalis so that it can tunnel into the ground. As a standard action, the symbiote-gunner can fire a burrower at a single target within 60 feet. Once fired or ejected, the burrower immediately burrows into the ground, either waiting by the symbiote-gunner’s position or tunneling towards the target with a burrow speed of 20 feet.
If directed to wait, the burrower may be directed to attack any incoming targets, be redirected to a new target within distance or directed to attack when a certain condition is met.
When it emerges from the ground, the chitin round makes an attack on the target directly or the larva chrysalis unfurls and unleashes the chrysalis beast that immediately attacks the target (this may be as a regular attack or as a trip, bull rush or charge action). In either case, the target is flat-footed on the round that the burrower emerges from the ground. The burrower can tunnel through dirt, but not through rock, and does not leave behind tunnels other creatures can use. At 12th level, a burrower can tunnel through rock. This maneouvre costs one bio-energy point.
Leapmine: At 12th level the symbiote-gunner can modify his larva chrysalis transforming them into proximity mines. As a standard action, a symbiote-gunner can fire leapmine chrysalis into an empty square(s) within range or eject them into a square(s) adjacent to him as a move action. Once placed, leapmine chrysalis become camouflaged and blend into the surrounding environment for 10 minutes per level of the symbiote-gunner, and appears as a rough hewn stone, discarded piece of chitin, or some other random piece of environment-appropriate debris. Creatures must make a successful DC 25 Perception check to identify a leapmine chrysalis. Any creature that enters or moves through its square or a square that is adjacent to it while the leapmine is in effect triggers the leapmine chrysalis.
Once the leapmine is triggered, the chrysalis beast is unfurled and gains an attack of opportunity against the triggering creature with a +2 bonus to its attack roll. The triggering creature is considered flat-footed for this attack. If the attack hits, the chrysalis beast deals +1d6 precision damage against the creature, in addition to its normal attack damage. It then functions normally during each subsequent round, attacking the creature until it or the creature is slain. A symbiote-gunner can encode the leapmine chrysalis prior to it being fired so that allies do not trigger it when they come within its proximity.
For every chrysalis beast so transformed (via spawn larvae II or greater) the symbiote-gunner must expend one bio-energy point. A symbiote-gunner can have only one leapmine chrysalis (or squad) active at a time – any subsequent use of spawn larvae renders any extant leapmines inert and lifeless.
Shock Blast: At 12th level the symbiote-gunner can modify one chitin round to deal damage in a burst of bio-electricity. As a standard action, the symbiote-gunner can fire a single chitin round charged with electricity at a single target or into an unoccupied square. If the attack hits a creature or an unoccupied square, the chitin round explodes in a 10 foot burst centered on the target or the square. All creatures caught within the blast (including the target) receive an amount of electricity damage equal to 3d6 + ½ the symbiote-gunner’s level, in addition to its normal damage. Each creature caught in the blast area is pushed away in a straight line up to 5 feet per three symbiote-gunner levels. For every size category of the target above Medium, reduce the distance pushed by 5 feet (–5 feet for Large, –10 feet for Huge, –15 for Gargantuan, and –20 feet for Colossal) to a minimum of 0 feet. A successful Fortitude save negates the movement and halves extra blast damage, but not normal chitin round damage. Shock blast requires the expenditure of two points of the symbiote-gunner’s bio-energy.
Mortar: At 12th level, by expending two points of bio-energy the symbiote-gunner modifies one chitin round, creating a mortar round with the following characteristics:
Firing a mortar round is a standard action. The range increases to (x2) - the symbiote-gunner selects a square within that range to be the drop-zone. The mortar round takes one full round to reach its target – it will not strike the ground until the symbiote-gunner’s next turn. The symbiote-gunner makes a chrysalis projector attack as normal – he receives a -4 penalty to actually strike any creature in the designated drop-zone square – a miss still lands in the drop zone, though if the shot misses by 10 or more or the mortar chrysalis hits a random square adjacent to the drop zone.
Wherever the mortar chrysalis falls, it strikes with a fearsome impact, causing the ground to shudder and sending out a wave of concussive force that inflicts 3d8+1 hp of damage/level of the symbiote-gunner to any creature in the square it landed in – a Reflex save halves this damage. - A direct hit inflicts an extra 1 hit point of damage/ level of the bio munitioneer, and the victim must make a Fortitude save or be stunned for 1d4 rounds.
- All creatures adjacent to the explosion fall prone, are staggered for 1d4 rounds and take 3d6 points of non-lethal damage - a Fortitude save with a -4 penalty halves the damage and staggered duration and negates the prone condition.
Juddernaught Pulse: At 16th level, the symbiote-gunner can modify one chitin round to emit a pulse that sickens and staggers his enemies. As a standard action, a symbiote-gunner can fire a single chitin round into the ground within range, creating sonic vibration in a 20-ft. burst. Each creature within the burst must make a Fortitude save or become sickened for 1 round per symbiote-gunner level and staggered for 1 round per two symbiote-gunner levels. If the save is successful, the sickened condition is negated and the duration of the staggered is reduced to 2 rounds. The juddernaught pulse can be also be created by striking the ground at the symbiote-gunner’s feet as a swift action – the vibration then center’s on the symbiote-gunner’s position – he is immune to its effects, but his allies still remain subject as normal.
Alternatively, the symbiote-gunner can place his chrysalis projector against an inanimate object or make a melee attack against a construct and create a destructive pulse that causes 3d6 force damage +1 per symbiote-gunner level that ignores hardness and 5 points of Damage Reduction. Juddernaught pulse requires the expenditure of two points of the symbiote-gunner’s bio-energy - the bio-energy point is still expended in the case of a missed melee attack.
Chitin Shrapnel Burst: At 16th level, the symbiote-gunner modifies one chitin round so that it creates tremendous concussive explosion on impact. A chitin shrapnel burst functions like a spatterbug chrysalis, except that the damage is 3d6 points of piercing damage +1 point of damage for every level the symbiote-gunner possesses, plus an additional 1d6 points of acid damage, and the target is nauseated for 1 round per three levels of the symbiote-gunner (Fortitude save at -2 halves the damage and negates the condition). In addition, each creature within 10 feet of the impact square (including the impact square) must make a Reflex save or fall prone. Chitin-shrapnel burst requires the expenditure of two points of the symbiote-gunner’s bio-energy.
This ability replaces shield ally, transposition, greater shield ally and merge forms.
Firing a larvae chrysalis requires a ranged touch attack. If the attack hits, the larvae chrysalis unfurls in a square adjacent to the target (or if tiny, in the target’s square) immediately unleashing the chosen chrysalis beast which attacks the target at the end of the symbiote-gunner’s turn.
If the attack misses, the larvae chrysalis lands in a randomly determined square within 10 feet of the target and unfurls. The chrysalis beast then moves and attacks the nearest enemy at beginning of the symbiote-gunner’s next turn.
A spawned chrysalis beast attacks the symbiote-gunner’s opponents to the best of its ability. Although nominally under the symbiote-gunner’s command, chrysalis beasts generally merely attack the nearest foe – however if the symbiote-gunner can communicate with the chrysalis beast, he can direct it to not attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions.
The larvae chrysalis unleashes one of the creatures from the 1st Level list on Table: Spawn Larvae. The symbiote-gunner chooses which kind of creature to generate, and he can choose a different one each time he creates a new larvae chrysalis. (Creatures on Table: Spawn Larvae marked with an "*" are always spawned with the advanced template, regardless of its usual statistics. )
At 3rd level, and every 2 levels thereafter, the power of this ability increases by one level, allowing the symbiote-gunner to spawn more powerful creatures (to a maximum of spawn larvae IX at 17th level).
Alternatively,the symbiote-gunner may elect to create multiple weaker creatures (a squad) as in summon monster II et al. The generation and firing of a squad requires a full-round action. The squad is fired as one shot, requiring one attack roll – regardless of a hit or miss, the squad unfurls and arrays themselves as possible in the spaces permitted and attacks as normal – at the end of the symbiote-gunner’s round if a hit, on the next round if a miss.
Spawned larvae remain for a number of rounds equal to the symbiote-gunner’s Constitution modifier + 3.
A symbiote-gunner cannot have more than one use of spawned larvae active in this way at one time. If this ability is used again, any existing chrysalis beasts immediately drop to the ground, lifeless and inert.
A chrysalis beast cannot spawn or otherwise create another creature, nor can it use any teleportation or planar travel abilities. Creatures cannot be spawned into an environment that cannot support them. Creatures spawned using this ability cannot use spells or spell-like abilities that duplicate spells with expensive material components (such as wish).
This ability alters but otherwise functions as summon monster I-IX.
Table: Spawn Larvae I
Fire beetle* (Mining beetle)Vermin B1
Giant centipede*Vermin B1
Greensting scorpion*Vermin UM
King crab*Vermin UM
Table: Spawn Larvae II
Ant, giant (worker)*Vermin B1
Bee, giant*Vermin B2
Beetle, Bombardier Vermin B1
Cockroach, giant*Vermin B1
Giant solifugid*Vermin B2
Giant tick*Vermin B2
Scorpion, cave*Vermin B2
Scorpion, ghostVermin B3
Table: Spawn Larvae III
Ankheg Magical Beast B1
Ant, giant (soldier)*Vermin B1
Cave fisher*Vermin B1
Cockroach swarm*Vermin B2
Fungal crawler Abberation B2
Table: Spawn Larvae IV
Ant, giant (drone)*Vermin B1
Centipede, whiptail (giant)*Vermin B2
Giant wasp*Vermin B1
Mantis, giant*Vermin B1
Scorpion, giant*Vermin B1
Wasp, swarm*Vermin B1
Table: Spawn Larvae V
Ant, army, swarm*Vermin B1
Bee, queen (giant)*Vermin B2
Beetle, slicer*Vermin B2
Centipede, swarm*Vermin B1
Crab, swarm*Vermin B1
Giant ant lion*Vermin B3
Giant stag beetle*Vermin B1
Table: Spawn Larvae VI
Beetle, goliath stag*Vermin B2
Deadfall scorpion*Vermin B3
Giant adult ant lion*Vermin B3
Shark-eating crab*Vermin B3
Slug, giant*Vermin B1
Table: Spawn Larvae VII
Centipede, titan*Vermin B2
Spiny eurypterid*Vermin AP 37
Tick swarm*Vermin B2
Table: Spawn Larvae VIII
Deadly mantis*Vermin ISB
Shipwrecker crab*Vermin B3
Table: Spawn Larvae IX
Azruverda Aberration B3
As his exo-carapace enlarges, the symbiote-gunner’s exo-carapace grows spiky protrusions – these deal 1d4 points of slashing damage on any successful grapple check against another creature. Any creature that grapples the symbiote-gunner or attempts an opposed grapple check to pin, constrict, swallow, or damage the symbiote-gunner takes 1d4 points of slashing and piercing damage.
In addition, the symbiote-gunner can choose one of the following insect forms – by expending one bio-energy point he may make the attendant special attack with his chrysalis projector once per day:
Sample abilities:
Acid spitter: Ankheg - spit acid – B1 p. 15/ Giant Slug – spit acid B1 p254
Leech bite: Giant leech - leech bite B1 p. 187
Poison sting: Spider – poison – B1 p.258/ Wasp – poison B1 p.275
Mantis Lunge: Giant Mantis – quick lunge B1 p.200
Slicer: Slicer beetle – crippling bite – B2 p.44
Extending Spike: Giant dragonfly nymph – extending jaw B2 p.105
Vomitus spray: Maggot giant – regurgitate – B2 p.124
Dread Stinger: Scorpion (black) – rapid sting B2 p. 240/ Scorpion (deadfall) sudden strike B3 p.237
Tick bite: Tick, giant/tick swarm – grab B2 p. 265
Power Claw: Crab (shipwrecker) - power claw – B3 p.60
Electric Blast: Jellyfish (sapphire) - electric blast– B3 p.155
The symbiote-gunner can make an additional use of this attack per day at 14th and 18th levels.
This ability replaces aspect and greater aspect.
Upon completing this transformation, the chrysalis unfurls and the newly transformed symbiote-gunner emerges. Through this metamorphosis, the symbiote-gunner permanently bonds with both his exo-carapace and chrysalis projector, his acid resistance increases to 20, he gains a burrow speed of 20 feet, and his creature type changes to Monstrous Humanoid. In addition, the symbiote-gunner can spit a corrosive stomach acid (either out of his chrysalis projector or head) at an opponent within 30 feet (no range increment) once per day. With a successful ranged touch attack, the target takes 10d6 points of acid damage (Reflex save for half).
This ability replaces twin eidolon.
Symbiote-gunners gain access to the following bio-enhancements. Remember that beneficial bio-enhancements with a range of “creature touched” can only be used to buff or enhance the symbiote-gunner or his chrysalis beasts.
0-Level Symbiote-gunner Bio-enhancements—acid splash, bleed, daze, detect poison, flare, light, resistance, stabilize, touch of fatigue, virtue.
1st-Level Symbiote-gunner Bio-enhancements – ant haul, daze monster, cure light wounds, ear-piercing scream, endure elements, expeditious retreat, feather step, grease, jump, longstrider, remove sickness, spider climb.
2nd-Level Symbiote-gunner Bio-enhancements— acute senses, barkskin, bear’s endurance, blur, bull’s strength, cat’s grace, cure moderate wounds, delay poison, distressing tone, eagle’s splendor, glide, piercing shriek, protection from arrows, resist energy, shatter, tireless pursuit.
3rd-Level Symbiote-gunner Bio-enhancements— continual flame, burrow, burst of speed, contagion, darkvision, displacement, fire shield, fungal infestation, haste, heroism, protection from energy, rage, remove disease, repel vermin, resinous skin, see invisibility, sound burst, spit venom, water breathing.
4th-Level Symbiote-gunner Bio-enhancements— absorb toxicity, age resistance (lesser), cape of wasps, cure serious wounds, darkvision (greater), echolocation, fly, insect plague**, neutralize poison, poison, thorny body.
5th-Level Symbiote-gunner Bio-enhancements—blessing of the salamander, contagion (greater), euphoric tranquility, heroism (greater), planar adaptation, plane shift, repulsion, sonic thrust, stoneskin, touch of slime.
6th-Level Symbiote-gunner Bio-enhancements—age resistance, antipathy, creeping doom, cure critical wounds, discordant blast, epidemic, plague storm, swarm skin, sympathy.
Where a thematic tweak to a Gunslinger ability occurred the gunslinger ability has been added in brackets after the Symbiont ability name)
*Bio-energy (grit) replaces life link and lost spell capabilites
*Bio-enhancements alter spells
*Chrysalis Projector (gunsmithing) replaces eidolon and reduced summoning capability of summon monsters as exemplified by spawn larvae
*Maneouvres (deeds) replace shield ally, transposition, greater shield ally and merge forms
*Motes alter Cantrips
*Spawn larvae alters summon monster
*Exo-carapace (nimble) replaces bond senses, maker’s call, and life bond
*Imago replace aspect and greater aspect
*Exo-apotheosis replaces twin eidolon.
And yes, 2 skill points. As much as I hate that for fighters I felt it appropriate for the severe combat focus and lack of wordly interaction...
My first thoughts;
What are the BAB and saves like? You’re also missing the table showing bio-enhancements per day.
Add proficiency with the Chrysalis Projector to the weapon proficiency section.
I’m tempted to say as the ammo for the projector is fairly limited, consider giving it a similar ranged damage progression to the alchemist’s bombs.
I’d treat the projector as a double weapon (ranged/melee) for the purposes of enchanting it.
Melee damage, I’d say maybe 1d8 (as a warhammer or longsword) should be alright.
My first thoughts;
What are the BAB and saves like? You’re also missing the table showing bio-enhancements per day.
Add proficiency with the Chrysalis Projector to the weapon proficiency section.
I’m tempted to say as the ammo for the projector is fairly limited, consider giving it a similar ranged damage progression to the alchemist’s bombs.
I’d treat the projector as a double weapon (ranged/melee) for the purposes of enchanting it.
Melee damage, I’d say maybe 1d8 (as a warhammer or longsword) should be alright.
agreed, considering the loss of the eidolon and the fact it doesn't hit touch ac.
#Symbiote-Gunner
@Alfray Strike
* Oops - left the progression out.
HD d8
BAB 3/4
Saves: Good Fort and Will
Spellcasting progression as Summoner.
* I hadn't thought of proficiency with the Chrysalis Projecror as it is essentially a part of the S-G's person. If it seems necessary I'm more than ok with adding it in.
* I'm not following you on the ranged damage progression of the alchemists bombs. I know someone initially mentioned the Alchemists bombs the first time I posted the MCA. Can you clarify for me? I'm wondering about the number of shots available per day - is that what you were referring to? That might work - in this case S-G level + Con modifier.
* Good point on the double weapon for purposes of enchantment.
* So a flat 1d8 in melee for the chrysalis projector? That seems reasonable. It's a one- or two-handed weapon
@ +5 Toaster:
Which bit are you specificaly agreeing with? ;)
* You actually bring up something I hadn't thought of - should the chitin rounds (only - not the larvae chrysalis) be a ranged touch attack? I'm not sure, but I think in an earlier
version they did...
Why does gun ammunition make a ranged touch attack, but bows and (more to the point) crossbows do not?
I'm suggesting changing it to something like the following;
"The chrysalis projector fires small, cocoon shaped projectiles called chitin rounds that deal 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage + additional damage equal to the symbiote-gunner's Constitution modifier, and have a critical range of 20/x2. The damage of the chitin rounds increases by 1d6 points at every odd-numbered symbiote-gunner level (this bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit or by using feats such as Vital Strike). The chrysalis projector has a range of 20 feet, plus an additional 5 feet at 2nd level and every two levels thereafter."
I'm of the opinion that firearms target touch ac to counteract the misfire chance.
I was agreeing with Alfray's analysis that the projector was limited, and with his suggestions on how to adjust it. You could maybe have it bypass DRs gradually instead of a touch attack?
Actually I've been rethinking my analysis of firearms;
Pros:
- Target touch ac
- High crit multiplier
- High damage
Cons:
- Long reload time
- Misfire chance
- Requires exotic weapon prof.
I figured it wise to list proficiency with the projector as the alchemist has their bombs listed. (Sorry for the repeated comparison between the two, it and the soulknife are the only classes I can think of that have weapons built into the class.)
I've made a class table for this; assuming you're using the same number of cantrips as a magus, taking into account my suggestions for damage of the projector and my reading of the class (I couldn't find any of your abilities at 19th level?)
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Bio-energy, Bio-enhancements, Chrysalis Projector (full-round/standard) 1d8/1d6, Manoeuvres, Motes, Spawn Larvae I 3 1 — — — — —
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Exo-Carapace +1 4 2 — — — — —
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Chrysalis Projector 1d8/2d6, Spawn Larvae II 4 3 — — — — —
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Manoeuvres 4 3 1 — — — —
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Chrysalis Projector 1d8/3d6, Spawn Larvae III 4 4 2 — — — —
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Exo-Carapace +2 5 4 3 — — — —
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Chrysalis Projector (standard/swift) 1d8/4d6, Spawn Larvae IV 5 4 3 1 — — —
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Manoeuvres 5 4 4 2 — — —
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Chrysalis Projector 1d8/5d6, Spawn Larvae V 5 5 4 3 — — —
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Exo-Carapace +3, Imago 1/day 5 5 4 3 1 — —
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 Chrysalis Projector 1d8/6d6, Spawn Larvae VI 5 5 4 4 2 — —
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Manoeuvres 5 5 5 4 3 — —
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Chrysalis Projector 1d8/7d6, Spawn Larvae VII 5 5 5 4 3 1 —
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Chrysalis Projector (swift/free), Exo-Carapace +4, Imago 2/day 5 5 5 4 4 2 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Chrysalis Projector 1d8/8d6, Spawn Larvae VIII 5 5 5 5 4 3 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Manoeuvres 5 5 5 5 4 3 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Chrysalis Projector 1d8/9d6, Spawn Larvae IX 5 5 5 5 4 4 2
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Exo-Carapace +5, Imago 3/day 5 5 5 5 5 4 3
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Chrysalis Projector 1d8/10d6, 5 5 5 5 5 5 4
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Exo-Apotheosis 5 5 5 5 5 5 5
I have minimal interest in the symbiote gunner, so I won't be adding much to that project.
@Alfray - I like that damage progression as a mechanical approach just worried about the range compared to an Alchemist's thrown bombs and the damage dice at high levels...
Still wondering how many shots/day - S-G level + Con modifier? With your progression thats (at 10th level) 10+Con x 5d6...
Thanks for the table, yes 19th is a dead level...
@+5 Toaster: I'm good without DR bypass and without touch if people think it too powerful.
@ Browman: No worries! It's very niche. Thanks for your candour.
My first thoughts;What are the BAB and saves like? You’re also missing the table showing bio-enhancements per day.
Add proficiency with the Chrysalis Projector to the weapon proficiency section.
I’m tempted to say as the ammo for the projector is fairly limited, consider giving it a similar ranged damage progression to the alchemist’s bombs.
I’d treat the projector as a double weapon (ranged/melee) for the purposes of enchanting it.
Melee damage, I’d say maybe 1d8 (as a warhammer or longsword) should be alright.
* I'm not following you on the ranged damage progression of the alchemists bombs. I know someone initially mentioned the Alchemists bombs the first time I posted the MCA. Can you clarify for me? I'm wondering about the number of shots available per day - is that what you were referring to? That might work - in this case S-G level + Con modifier.* Good point on the double weapon for purposes of enchantment.
* So a flat 1d8 in melee for the chrysalis projector? That seems reasonable. It's a one- or two-handed weapon
@ +5 Toaster:
Which bit are you specificaly agreeing with? ;)* You actually bring up something I hadn't thought of - should the chitin rounds (only - not the larvae chrysalis) be a ranged touch attack? I'm not sure, but I think in an earlier
version they did...
Why does gun ammunition make a ranged touch attack, but bows and (more to the point) crossbows do not?
I worked on this concept with OSW a while back. The chitin porjectiles were based off of an arrow for damage and the number of chitin rounds he gets per day. It was meant to duplicate the idea of a "quiver" full of "chitin rounds". As it sits, he get 42 + Con modifier per day. OSW, I think you'll need to decide whether you want thiit to function as a bomb-like round (not exploding, but increasing ind amage as he levels) or more of a glorified "bow" with a limited umber of rounds per day.
I agree it should be a double weapon for enchanting it, and should function like a heavy mace (1d8/x2) for damage. I think you should go with 1d8 for the projectile damage and 30 ft. for range. IF you decide to go with the bomb mechanic, go 1d6/x2 and increase to no more than 5d6 and use the number of bombs as your number of chitin rounds per day. Essentially, either go with more less potent projectiles, or fewer more damaging projectiles.
As to the touch attack for the chitin rounds, no, stay with normal ranged attack, it's not a firearm and is a bludgeoning round anyways.
ok put me back in the que work drama over for now
As it sits, he get 42 + Con modifier per day. OSW, I think you'll need to decide whether you want thiit to function as a bomb-like round (not exploding, but increasing ind amage as he levels) or more of a glorified "bow" with a limited umber of rounds per day.I agree it should be a double weapon for enchanting it, and should function like a heavy mace (1d8/x2) for damage. I think you should go with 1d8 for the projectile damage and 30 ft. for range. IF you decide to go with the bomb mechanic, go 1d6/x2 and increase to no more than 5d6 and use the number of bombs as your number of chitin rounds per day. Essentially, either go with more less potent projectiles, or fewer more damaging projectiles.
As to the touch attack for the chitin rounds, no, stay with normal ranged attack, it's not a firearm and is a bludgeoning round anyways.
I pretty much agree with all of this, thinking it over.
at 42+anything i think you might just make them free i dont see anyone need more than 47 someodd arrows
@Generally - I'm happy to move on with the final MCA of the thread to keep involvement fresh...
#Symbiote-Gunner
Thanks for the extra feedback El! So are you saying keep the chitin rounds as they were, but change the base damage to d8?
I don't quite get the thinking on the options you suggest for shots/day...is this right?
So the options are:
"Bow-style" 1d8 +1/ 3 levels damage, ammo rate = (4 + Con) + 2/level per day
OR
1d6-5d6 damage (progressing), ammo rate = S-G level + Con modifier/day
So
At 5th level with 18 Con: 16 shots of 1d8+1 OR 9 shots of 3d6
At 10th level with 20 Con: 27 shots of 1d8+3 OR 15 shots of 5d6
Etc etc?
at 42+anything i think you might just make them free i dont see anyone need more than 47 someodd arrows
Pretty sure that is a typo - 4 + Con mod.
Thinking about it more, I think I'd rather go with that method than the bomb style - too much Alchemist in an MCA that has NO Alchemist... ;p
at 42+anything i think you might just make them free i dont see anyone need more than 47 someodd arrowsPretty sure that is a typo - 4 + Con mod.
Thinking about it more, I think I'd rather go with that method than the bomb style - too much Alchemist in an MCA that has NO Alchemist... ;p
ah ok... how abut a multiple of your con mod like x5 if con is their primary stat that will give them 15-25 which would not be so bad
I personally like the lower number of shots at higher damage, it will give the player a better feeling of satisfaction when they spend their resources. I feel like the 4+con+2/lvl ends up giving you more ammo than you'll likely spend on even a hectic day, especially given how many abilities and bio enhancements operate on standard or pricier actions.
#Symbiote-Gunner
@Kyras - While I like the simplicity I'm no sure it's too much different from the first option.
@Iorthol - I get what you're saying here Iorthol, and it is compelling. My major problem is that it resembles the Alchemist's bomb damage.
Thematically I was trying to get more of a "ranged gunner" who could still have a ranged attack even when out of larvae chrysalis to fire, rather than a big "shot" occasionally.
Looking at the 10th level example, having a whole slew (27) of shots doing 1d8+3 isn't really as exciting (let alone contributing very much) as 15 shots doing 5d6 BUT then I think the latter is a LOT of potential damage. I suppose you'd still have to hit...and 15 is pretty good. Range then becomes a problem when compared with the Alchemist.
Perhaps there is a middle path...
oh i think i see the what you are saying. what about something not normally done other then "more" or "better" maybe something like stacking bleed damage the amount stackable could go up as you level like +1 for every other level after 2 might look like this
at level 2 the Symbiote-Gunner's chitin rounds become hollow making wounds that bleed but they are brittle and do not last long every time the Symbiote-Gunner's chitin rounds deal damage to a target it makes one round of bleed damage. At level 4 and every even level after it last one more round (level 4=2 rounds, level 6=3 rounds, level 8=4 rounds and so on)
this bleed damage stacks.
@OSW: Remember the alchemist targets touch AC, has splash damage, and can still sometimes deal the splash damage on a miss. Also there's the option of increasing the number of damage die at a different rate (every 3 or 4 levels maybe?)
@Kyras: Hollow-point or flechette rounds that deal bleed damage might be an interesting approach - I'd suggest dealing piercing damage in this case.
right right piercing would be the only way for bleed damage
but we could come up with a way for something of the flavor to work with
bludgeoning damage i would say sundering, but sundering is sundering and not many people like the idea of it. i know my players avoid it.
Random idea which I expect to get shot down: how about being able to make ranged bull rush or trip attempts?