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In Moorcock's Cosmic Champion cosmology (Chaos/Balance/Law) the TN alignment more or less corresponds with resetting things to non-static, non-flying all to pieces. Of course, with a multiverse, balance has something to do and something to measure against.
Good/evil is there not really the focus. Chaos is good when it brings new things into existence and does destroy all of the time, and Law is good when it preserves good things, and doesn't stifle change. This is sort of 1e.
I wonder if something like that could be thought of as the TN druidic/aeons thing? Hence, you're not schizoid, just treading the Middle Path. Of course, it tends toward NG, because we tend to measure the world in terms of human morality. But I could imagine a TN character working to undo the industrial revolution, which was mostly a great thing for humans (as opposed to almost all other life, with the exception of rats, cats, and dogs).
Creative Director
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Quick note about formians—in Golarion, they're aliens, not outsiders. The formians that exist on Axis are going to likely become axiomatic formians or some other templated type of creature, but they're not going to be "the original formians" and as such are, in the grand scheme of Axis's history, relative newcomers.
More information to come eventually.
Quick note about formians—in Golarion, they're aliens, not outsiders. The formians that exist on Axis are going to likely become axiomatic formians or some other templated type of creature, but they're not going to be "the original formians" and as such are, in the grand scheme of Axis's history, relative newcomers.
More information to come eventually.
Thanks you for the clarification, and it makes perfect sense :)
Also sets up a fun way to shock PCs if they're only aware of the relatively benign Axis breed of formians and then run into some on the Material plane or elsewhere.
But otherwise, soft retcon on the Axis breed occasionally incorporating petitioners?
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But otherwise, soft retcon on the Axis breed occasionally incorporating petitioners?
Or, there could be some existentially horrifying manner by which non-outsider Formians can transform a 'lost' non-Formian soul to become the animating spirit of a new Formian. Just as insects on the material plane might recycle the meat of other animals to make more insects, the Formians might have figured out how to recycle souls...
Like making art, you just have to pick it up, polish it up, and then cut away anything that isn't a Formian, leaving all those cast off memories and feelings in a quivering pile on the cutting room floor.
Since the process is more difficult than just a mommy formian and a daddy formian loving each other very much and a quadzillion eggs being the result, perhaps this technique is reserved for specialist formians that might develop class abilities, or serve as ambassadors to (or generals in charge of conquering...) the sorts of otherwise hard-to-comprehend races they originally came from. Or perhaps some outer planes are more hospitable to biological life-processes than others, and the 'normal' sorts of breeding are unreliable in, say, Axis, or Avernus. (Which might also explain why so many outsider races form from the souls of mortal races, if at least some of the outer planes just aren't terribly compatible with breeding 'the old-fashioned way.')
But otherwise, soft retcon on the Axis breed occasionally incorporating petitioners?Or, there could be some existentially horrifying manner by which non-outsider Formians can transform a 'lost' non-Formian soul to become the animating spirit of a new Formian. Just as insects on the material plane might recycle the meat of other animals to make more insects, the Formians might have figured out how to recycle souls...
Like making art, you just have to pick it up, polish it up, and then cut away anything that isn't a Formian, leaving all those cast off memories and feelings in a quivering pile on the cutting room floor.
Since the process is more difficult than just a mommy formian and a daddy formian loving each other very much and a quadzillion eggs being the result, perhaps this technique is reserved for specialist formians that might develop class abilities, or serve as ambassadors to (or generals in charge of conquering...) the sorts of otherwise hard-to-comprehend races they originally came from. Or perhaps some outer planes are more hospitable to biological life-processes than others, and the 'normal' sorts of breeding are unreliable in, say, Axis, or Avernus. (Which might also explain why so many outsider races form from the souls of mortal races, if at least some of the outer planes just aren't terribly compatible with breeding 'the old-fashioned way.')
Cronenberg-esque body-horror is always awesome, but I'd be careful in how such a transformation was framed and how it was used. For the Axis formians, it would have to be souls that Axis itself didn't have prior claim towards, or potentially souls fundamentally damaged (by exposure to the Abyss, prior entrapment within undead, and souls willing to submit to the hive-structure or needing it for whatever reason).
However that happened willingly (or by horrific necessity) it might appear absolutely horrific to someone watching it. But again, I'd be careful about injecting such a visceral level of horror into Axis formians versus those adapted to evil planes. Now formians adapted to Abaddon as an experiment by say, someone like Roshmolem the Steel Weaver, who prior to his/her/it's death might have had a small captive hide of their kind set up as an experiment, feeding the ant-farm soul-stuff and watching what they became... I can see that. >:)
I've read you like ponies...
1. What are your favorite pony-fics?
2. Where would be the most interesting place for ponies to show up in Golarion?
3. Did the 'cook people' hex (2nd under major hexes) remind you of Cupcakes?
Oh, and a bit of trivia: I found about Pathfinder because of ponies (specifically, Ponyfinder).
I've read you like ponies...
1. What are your favorite pony-fics?
2. Where would be the most interesting place for ponies to show up in Golarion?
3. Did the 'cook people' hex (2nd under major hexes) remind you of Cupcakes?
Oh, and a bit of trivia: I found about Pathfinder because of ponies (specifically, Ponyfinder).
1) I don't actually read pony-fic. I think the only that I've read are Cupcakes because it's Cupcakes, and there was a Planescape/MLP crossover that I was linked to earlier this year, though the name of it escapes me at the moment.
2) In Isger during the Godlinblood Wars. All those goblins. Ponies. Hilarity and/or bloodshed ensues. >:)
3) Not particularly no.
And really? That's both incredibly cool, and incredibly bizarre as a way to get into Pathfinder! :D
Don't forget that, in the entry for the vestige of the previous Primus in Dragon #341, we were told that subsequent to the events of The Great Modron March, the new Primus recalled all modrons to their areas of Mechanus and basically sealed the place, keeping them isolated from the rest of the planes (for whatever reason). That's what allowed the formians to suddenly increase their holdings.
And I totally forgot about that one. :)
Admittedly it was after-the-fact rationalization for some of the bonkers marginalization of the modrons earlier in 3.x, but it did a fairly good job making some sense out of it all.
Also, four of the modrons (monodrones, duodrones, quadrones, and pentadrones) were updated to 3.5 in Dragon #354.
Awesome article, and I liked how it linked back to Orcus's temporary usurpation of the Modron Energy Pool in Regulus, and set up the notion of corrupted modrons.
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Holy crap. Okay gotta get all my questions together
1.) Do the individual Protean species represent any particular concepts similar to the way that devils, daemons, and demons represent the various actions that brought those souls to their proper planes?
2.)Do you believe there to be more protean types existing on the planes then the 3-4 we have been given thus far and if so what kinds of concepts are they meant to represent?
3.) Do you have any music/musical cues you associate with the proteans? I know in my home games they have begun to play a very prominent role and I've started to put together some music that often seems to follow them as they contort reality on their arrival.
4.) Can you tell us any more about Apollyon? I always felt like his entry in horsemen was a little flat in comparison to the other 3 horsemen and like some of what people usually associate with pestilence (sickness & disease) were subsumed by Trelmarixian. That being said he only really stands out in this regard due to just how off the wall stellar the other 3 horsemen are.
5.) How many of the harbingers in the back material of the book did you come up with?
6.) What are your favorite harbingers?
7.) Were there any more of them that you had written about in further detail that got cut from Horsemen?
8.)Just want to give you a sincere thank you for your work on the daemons and proteans. You literally had to replace one of my most favorite outsiders (the slaad) and build up a group of outsiders that up until now I've always felt really lacked in terms of thematic umph (NE outsiders) and you managed to not only hit it right out of the park but create what are arguably my 2 favorite groups of outsiders in the game thus far both thematically and mechanically. I love the nihilism of the daemons and how well it just plays through every one of them and makes NE literally one of the best outsider options to unite a mixed alignment party against. The proteans are an awesome mix of creativity and rebellion and I love how even from what little we've gotten of them they just have this great vibe as creatures that would just as soon back a tyrant as a freedom fighter on the grounds of "I wanted to smell that change".
9.) I remember reading somewhere that the proteans were the ones who created Axis, on the grounds that in a multiverse of pure chaos the only chaotic thing to do was make order. How do you feel about that theory, and did you pen that one or was that someone else?
10.) have you created any protean lords and if so would you share them or are there any plans to publish them soon? Also does the speaker from the depths, the incarnate of the maelstorm proper grant spell or have human followers?
11.) Other thing, how do you envision the urdefhan and their culture? I was sold on them once I equated them to firefly's Reavers but I've always wanted a more thorough explanation of the mortal race that was basically created by a race dedicated to the extinction of all mortal life.
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5) One of my favorite parts of Undead Revisited was the lich section; I particularly loved the concept of a lich slowly losing interest in Golarion over the course of his unending unlife and heading out into outer space. What are some of the possibilities you can imagine awaiting such liches?
5) Into outer space or out into the planes? For both I can imagine them being destroyed by inevitables or psychopomps, but for those that survive long enough I can see them transcending their original undead nature into something unique and not necessarily evil. Growing beyond their original humanity and their adopted inhumanity to eventually find redemption or oblivion.
Is it bad that I saw this as a weird and awesome episode of red dwarf?
1.) Do the individual Protean species represent any particular concepts similar to the way that devils, daemons, and demons represent the various actions that brought those souls to their proper planes?
Not entirely. I'm of the mind that the proteans (like the qlippoth) don't have a necessary parallel to any easy concept that mortal minds can use to categorize them, or set any caste as being the destination of any specific type of mortal soul (especially since mortal souls becoming proteans is indeed possible, but uncertain as to how often it happens or how that occurs).
Roughly speaking as it concerns their actions:
Keketar - Heirophants of Chaos / Those who put meaning behind that without meaning
Imentesh - Subtle Chaos
Naunet - Direct Chaos
Or considering the 'immune system of the Maelstrom' parallel that I had in mind regarding them you could potentially view them as. Very vague association here:
Keketar - Th (CD4+)
Imentesh - B
Naunet - Macrophage
2.)Do you believe there to be more protean types existing on the planes then the 3-4 we have been given thus far and if so what kinds of concepts are they meant to represent?
Yes. The three named thus far fill specific niches, but it seems contradictory to have the infinite chaos of the Maelstrom arbitrarily limited to those types.
I've got many many ideas as regards additional protean types. Poke Paizo to let me work on them at some point in the future. ;)
3.) Do you have any music/musical cues you associate with the proteans? I know in my home games they have begun to play a very prominent role and I've started to put together some music that often seems to follow them as they contort reality on their arrival.
Not really. I haven't done much with music in my games, though I have associated certain songs with specific long-term NPCs in campaigns that I've run.
4.) Can you tell us any more about Apollyon? I always felt like his entry in horsemen was a little flat in comparison to the other 3 horsemen and like some of what people usually associate with pestilence (sickness & disease) were subsumed by Trelmarixian. That being said he only really stands out in this regard due to just how off the wall stellar the other 3 horsemen are.
I appreciate that you really liked the Horsemen writeups. Apollyon was the one Horseman that already had some details in place (as well as being an Anthraxus homage) prior to my getting my hands on them, and so I'll be open that subconsciously I may not have wanted to step on toes and go crazy with him. Also I was running low on word count, and Apollyon had some material cut from my working draft to make up for some of the others well before editing came into play. Trelmarixian may have poached his word count in BotD3 out of game as much as he arguably is hedging in on his portfolio in-game.
5.) How many of the harbingers in the back material of the book did you come up with?
Only six of them actually:
AesdurathLlamolaek
Pavnuri
Roqorolos
Vorasha
Zelishkar
Most of those on the back page were created by the Paizo guys after I turned in the draft manuscript, but such a list wasn't originally requested, otherwise I'd have inundated them with more crazy names. ;)
But I think they came up with some seriously awesome ones to fill that list out. The ones I created were both ones mentioned in the text or given writeups (though not all of those writeups made it into print because of space issues).
6.) What are your favorite harbingers?
I <3 Vorasha down to every eyeless serpent on her medusa-headed meladaemon body. This is an image of her I had drawn a few years ago
I also adore Pavnuri in all his 'cacodaemon on steroids' glory.
7.) Were there any more of them that you had written about in further detail that got cut from Horsemen?
Aesdurath had a full writeup originally, but otherwise he's the only one that was cut from that section. Which by request I posted here on the boards at some point (after getting an ok from James to do so).
8.)Just want to give you a sincere thank you for your work on the daemons and proteans. You literally had to replace one of my most favorite outsiders (the slaad) and build up a group of outsiders that up until now I've always felt really lacked in terms of thematic umph (NE outsiders) and you managed to not only hit it right out of the park but create what are arguably my 2 favorite groups of outsiders in the game thus far both thematically and mechanically. I love the nihilism of the daemons and how well it just plays through every one of them and makes NE literally one of the best outsider options to unite a mixed alignment party against. The proteans are an awesome mix of creativity and rebellion and I love how even from what little we've gotten of them they just have this great vibe as creatures that would just as soon back a tyrant as a freedom fighter on the grounds of "I wanted to smell that change".
The slaadi and the 'loths were likewise my two favorite Planescape/D&D planar races, and I had to replace the former completely from scratch, and the latter not exactly from scratch but from an outline of ideas that James handed me (that they were based around the idea of Death as their conceptual niche and that their leaders were the Four Horsemen, with each horseman having a servitor race of daemon).
I'm indebted for being given the creative space I had when working on both the proteans and daemons. A hard-core Planescape super-fan couldn't have asked for anything more, and I was writing in a really long and deep shadow. Hopefully my contribution to Pathfinder's lore on the topic stands on its own and finds purchase compared to the awesome stuff it couldn't use because of IP issues with classic D&D planar races. :)
Honestly I'm not sure which of them I enjoyed worked on more, but damn I'd love to do more! :D :D :D
9.) I remember reading somewhere that the proteans were the ones who created Axis, on the grounds that in a multiverse of pure chaos the only chaotic thing to do was make order. How do you feel about that theory, and did you pen that one or was that someone else?
IIRC, the idea was that the proteans created the sparks of order/rigidity that became the other planes (minus the Abyss which seems to have been pre-existant in some capacity; though the proteans claim to have either discovered or created that plane in a misbegotten act of hubris by several now dead or shunned keketar choruses. Which one is true is for you to decide).
I think I came up with that idea, or one iteration of it at least. I'd have to look back at what came out when. But regardless it has had several versions presented in print, none or all of which might be true depending on how you frame the question and differing depending on which outsiders you ask.
10.) have you created any protean lords and if so would you share them or are there any plans to publish them soon? Also does the speaker from the depths, the incarnate of the maelstorm proper grant spell or have human followers?
I created all of them that have been given a writeup: the Wanderer, the Kingmaker, and the Crownless (giving titles here because even I don't remember the proper spelling of their full names which are intentionally convoluted without looking them up). A few others have been mentioned in name only, such as the 'Lord of Entropy' and 'Lord of the Insane' among others that were stand-ins for the old slaad lords including Ygorl and Ssendam - those were added in during editing as shoutouts to those two as classics.
Wes Schneider has also mentioned Zolo of Hungry Shapes, which is just a really spectacular name that begs for more details in the future.
I would say that the Speaker(s) of the Depths don't have mortal followers and likely don't grant spells to mortals, not because they can't or won't, but because probably very few creatures have the innate capacity of understand and channel the Maelstrom's will through themselves except for the proteans themselves. Everyone else requires an intermediary such as one of the protean lords.
It's like trying to take a drink from a water-main or a fire-hose versus drinking from a water fountain.
11.) Other thing, how do you envision the urdefhan and their culture? I was sold on them once I equated them to firefly's Reavers but I've always wanted a more thorough explanation of the mortal race that was basically created by a race dedicated to the extinction of all mortal life.
I hesitate to answer fully here other than an answer that works for me since I didn't create the urdefhan. I'm pretty sure that either Jacobs or Vaughn created (someone correct me if I'm wrong here) in 'Into the Darklands', and, well... THEY ARE AWESOME.
Tagging them as intentionally created versions of Firefly's Reavers seems a pretty good way to handle them. They shouldn't rightfully exist, they're frankly doomed in the long-run by their own association with daemons and their desire to butcher everything they run across as a devotion to their death-embodying creators.
They're an experiment by the daemons really, and by far not the only one. For an outsider race embodying mortal death, they've paradoxically created quite a bit of life. They're obsessed with souls (some of the Horsemen more than others), but Charon has created a lot of immortals (undead anyway), Trelmarixian and his predecessor went nuts creating all sorts of twisted things (most of which got cut from BotD3 for space reasons, so no Scutigera Daemonicum to give your players nightmares wth), and Apollyon has spawned diseases which of course are alive or arguably alive. But all that they've created is done so with the intention of causing more death than that which they offset by being alive themselves.
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Holy crap soo much and that I want to respond to.
2.) Contradictory or Chaotic? But yeah I want more, I feel like it's weird that the embodiments of chaos paradoxically have, well the fewest embodiments.
3.) I've started using different music to sort of cue their arrival, treating it as the sound of literal chaos warping into our mostly stable reality. Right now I've been using noise metal but freeform jazz has actually started to catch on for me with the right songs. In the end though I feel like whatever cue I use needs to feel beautiful and together but somehow discordant and chaotic, like this shouldn't flow as well as it does.
4.) That makes sense. I hope we get to see more written on him in the future that allow us to get more into his head. I mean the guy lives in the pseudo dead carcass of a massive protean that he usurped from the previous lord who he didn't so much kill as disappear and who know very might still be alive. He has to have some interesting motivations floating around.
5.) Ahh I must say though most of those weren't the ones that really got my gears going in that back matter sorry to say save Pavnori, pavnori was awesome. I love the concept of a giant cacodaemon who is literally hated on by all of his piers for who he is, the proverbial king of the weakest links in the daemonic chain. Also I love his favored weapon choice, I really want to see some art of a Pavnori cleric with a morningstar with a head shaped like a Cacodaemon.
Vorash is kind of growing on me though more as a great foil character to Trel. Anyway you can shed some light on the choice of spiked chain?
6.) What did you think of Cixyron, Folca, Nalmungder, and Xsistaid both thematically and mechanically? Also who do you think the first 2 would serve under?
7.) Anyway you could share some of what you wrote on him with us? One of the things I really wish we could have gotten more of was information on the various harbingers that came out of horsemen like we did with lords of chaos and considering the shear variety of awesome nightmare fueled options we had I've always wished we could get more on them.
8.) As for standing up against them I at least feel they've really stood up and in some places outshined their contemporaries. I know in my mind the daemons have completely filled my need for NE outsiders and the opener for horsemen where we got that mission statement for them was just so strong and so clear that I've been having ideas on how to use them ever sense.
As for proteans I've been using them as a main (unknown) ally of my gaming group since around their appearance in b2. They literally just watched a keketar burn out a demon because it was "disturbing chorus" one of the party members was unknowingly creating for it. I'm still waiting for them to figure out what the hell it is.
9.) I like the concept of them creating Axis, the idea of them being that dedicated to the concept of chaos & change just adds another layer to their cool.
10.) Do any of those lords have domain lists, including favored weapons and all that?
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4.) That makes sense. I hope we get to see more written on him in the future that allow us to get more into his head. I mean the guy lives in the pseudo dead carcass of a massive protean that he usurped from the previous lord who he didn't so much kill as disappear and who know very might still be alive. He has to have some interesting motivations floating around.
I like the idea of lost/vanished Horsemen who might be out there in some capacity still. Yrsinius wasn't the only such example I had in mind as it turns out, just the only one that made it into the final product.
And now totally going into non-printed non-canon territory:
There was also Ceolaeros the Twice Fallen Prodigal, the only Horseman to have willingly abdicated their position. No source mentions which Horsemen they were, and of course their very existence is denied entirely by daemonic historians, as are the whispers that they obtained their position via an artifact linked to the Oinodaemon, purchased from Tegresin, sole occupant of the demiplanar Prison of the Laughing Fiend. In any event they abdicated and promptly vanished according to the bargain they made for the artifact, 'One million souls for each year you remain among the Four, or a single task done at the time of my choosing'. What they went looking for, where, and the true nature of the bargain remains an enigma.
5.) Ahh I must say though most of those weren't the ones that really got my gears going in that back matter sorry to say save Pavnori, pavnori was awesome. I love the concept of a giant cacodaemon who is literally hated on by all of his piers for who he is, the proverbial king of the weakest links in the daemonic chain. Also I love his favored weapon choice, I really want to see some art of a Pavnori cleric with a morningstar with a head shaped like a Cacodaemon.Vorash is kind of growing on me though more as a great foil character to Trel. Anyway you can shed some light on the choice of spiked chain?
For the most part, other than five that I gave writeups, the harbingers that I created were mentioned in name only, without additional details. The chart was a later addition to the book, and if I'd known, I would have given those names a lot more thought and fleshing out on my end. But given what Paizo came up with, I don't think anyone else going to be left wanting! :)
I really like Pavnuri too. Giant hungry ball that he is. Do not taunt Happy-Fun-Pavnuri.
As for Vorasha's favored weapon, I didn't come up with it, so I can't speak to the weapon choice unfortunately. :)
6.) What did you think of Cixyron, Folca, Nalmungder, and Xsistaid both thematically and mechanically? Also who do you think the first 2 would serve under?
Cixyron has a really awesome portfolio, and I think that they would fit nicely under Szuriel.
Folca is twisted and nightmarish and I totally approve to the bottom of my black, twisted heart. >:) Abduction, strangers, and sweets? *SHUDDER* Either Charon or Trelmarixian.
Xsistaid seems likely to be under Trelmarixian, but was probably there under Lyutheria the Parasite Queen, possibly even before Trelmarixian became a daemon.
Nalmungder gives me a really strong 'Masque of the Red Death' image going on of nobles hiding out and trying to avoid the plague affecting their lessers in station, but to no avail, so I'd slot them under Apollyon.
7.) Anyway you could share some of what you wrote on him with us? One of the things I really wish we could have gotten more of was information on the various harbingers that came out of horsemen like we did with lords of chaos and considering the shear variety of awesome nightmare fueled options we had I've always wished we could get more on them.
Since this has been posted before, here you go:
Aesdurath the Puppet King
Commander: Charon
Realm: The 9 Towers
Unholy Symbol: A silhouette of two overlapping skulls
Areas of concern: Death by Magical Backlash
Domains: Evil, Undeath, Magic
Favored Weapon: Dagger
Aesdurath was born from the bizarre conjunction of a lich whose soul fused with its erodaemon consort upon his corporeal destruction. Now appearing as a gaunt, genderless erodaemon spontaneously manifesting bleeding bite marks upon its body, its conjoined souls feed upon one another. Aesdurath isn’t a true daemon, at least as far as most of the daemonic nobility is concerned. Yet Charon accepts Aesdurath’s loyalty and the Four take no official stance, leaving many to suspect they use him as a goading tool to throw against their other vassals.
10.) Do any of those lords have domain lists, including favored weapons and all that?
No, but here's my attempt to give them some. Non-canon obviously:
Ssila’meshnik the Colorless Lord:
Holy Symbol: Keketar head superimposed by an interlaced triquetra
Areas of concern: Interaction of the Maelstrom with gods and other planes
Domains: Chaos, Destruction, Magic
Favored Weapon: Dagger
Il’surrish the Wanderer:
Holy Symbol: Sphere of cerulean light
Areas of concern: Dreams, travelers, muses
Domains: Chaos, Liberation, Madness
Favored Weapon: Mace
Narriseminek the Crownless, The Maker of Kings:
Holy Symbol: Keketar head wreathed in flame
Areas of concern: Promotion of proteans to higher station, prophecy, visions
Domains: Chaos, Nobility, Knowledge
Favored Weapon: Longsword
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Todd, I had a question about Axis.
Looking through The Great Beyond, I'm repeatedly stumped as to why the map of axis looks so small, given its central place in the cosmology. Judging from the scale of buildings n the map, Axis is smaller than Korvosa, and for a planar metropolis that doesn't seem to make any sense. Is the map really accurate, or is it a misrepresentation of size and scale.
Furthermore, is Axis the plane the same thing as Axis the city, or is there more to the plane than Axis itself? The book seems to indicate the latter is true, but doesn't go into much detail on what else may reside beyond the golden barrier wall except for (for reasons I cannot comprehend) the forge where inevitables are built...
I thought I had seen in another thread that Axis the city is Axis the plane and that it is full of dimensional pockets that make it much larger than it appears. I can't put my finger on the source, unfortunately, but I thought it was one of these "Ask him/her ALL your questions here!" threads.
But as for the planes being alive? It's a concept that I like, and certainly the oldest planes like the Maelstrom and the Abyss seem to be alive in and of themselves. Abaddon probably didn't start off that way, but it arguably is alive now. As for the others? I'd probably leave that an open question, and in terms of alive, it might not be so much sentience as the planes operate like living organisms, growing, repairing themselves, expanding, etc.
Hmm, I suddenly had a vision of Trelmaryxian carefully transforming the prime material plane into a disease carrier. A subtle, insidious cancer that infects mortals, slowly eroding their morality and ethics, a famine of the soul. Over generations (daemons can be quite patient, after all) the gods' influence and support is gradually weakened, and the percentage of the River of Souls "earmarked" for Abaddon grows through no obvious cause. Hilarity ensues.
What do you think, seem like the basis for an interesting campaign?
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Hmm, I suddenly had a vision of Trelmaryxian carefully transforming the prime material plane into a disease carrier.
In Golarion, according to lore, disease didn't even exist until Urgathoa *refused to be judged by Pharasma* and became the first undead. Depending on the level of truthiness in that story, the Horseman of Disease wouldn't exist without Urgathoa (since disease itself didn't exist before Urgathoa).
If perhaps that story is a bit oversold, and disease did exist, to a lesser degree, pre-Urgathoa, then perhaps the Horseman of Disease had something to do with Urgathoa becoming a god in the first place, and the link between that goddess, allowed to keep a residence in Abaddon, and the Horsemen (or, at least, one of the Horsemen) is much closer and more dependent upon each other than is generally admitted...
It's intriguing that Urgathoa isn't the only one selling this tale. The Horsemen seem to be keeping their mouths shut, while *Pharasma* seems to be invested in blaming Urgathoa for the spread of disease on the mortal plane, as a side-effect of defying her judgement.
The mystery to me is, if disease (and the Horseman thereof) existed before Urgathoa skipped out on death, then why would Pharasma be complicit in maintaining the lie that Urgathoa (and her defying of Pharasma's judgement) is the cause of disease?
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The mystery to me is, if disease (and the Horseman thereof) existed before Urgathoa skipped out on death, then why would Pharasma be complicit in maintaining the lie that Urgathoa (and her defying of Pharasma's judgement) is the cause of disease?
What feels more likely to me is the parable about Uragathoa being responsible for being the cause of all disease was likely a mortal invention. A story with a moral designed to make people resent the undead/urgathoa further than they already did. Pharasma, being as neutral and distant as she is, would likely be uninterested in correcting her followers spreading anti-Urgathoan propaganda, as it is already in her interests for people to dislike that goddess.
Todd, I had a question about Axis.
Looking through The Great Beyond, I'm repeatedly stumped as to why the map of axis looks so small, given its central place in the cosmology. Judging from the scale of buildings n the map, Axis is smaller than Korvosa, and for a planar metropolis that doesn't seem to make any sense. Is the map really accurate, or is it a misrepresentation of size and scale.
Furthermore, is Axis the plane the same thing as Axis the city, or is there more to the plane than Axis itself? The book seems to indicate the latter is true, but doesn't go into much detail on what else may reside beyond the golden barrier wall except for (for reasons I cannot comprehend) the forge where inevitables are built...
I would say at a minimum that the map isn't precisely to scale, and that it contains elements of geometry in which some places such as Abadar's domain, Aroden's former domain, etc that are significantly larger on the inside than on the outside.
The map also differs a bit from the original intent, though I'd have to look back if that is reflected in the text or not. I would put Aroden's former domain inside of Axis rather than outside of it, but completely walled off and bound such that the conflict for its space doesn't spill over into the rest of the city/plane. Likewise I would put the Crucible inside of the walls as well, but probably inside of such a dimensional pocket bigger on the inside than outside, yet still expansive on the outside as well. It really should be inside of the city walls, and honestly everything described should be inside of the walls as well, with the possible exception of Pharasma's Spire, which is adjacent to the city and not a part of it proper, but nor is it within the Maelstrom either, it just borders it as it borders Axis.
Axis the plane should be the same as Axis the city. The city grows, and as the space expands, those exterior walls sitting at the edge of the Maelstrom's shallows (whatever the terrain might actually be at any given time in the Maelstrom borderlands) move outwards as well.
Hmm, I suddenly had a vision of Trelmaryxian carefully transforming the prime material plane into a disease carrier.In Golarion, according to lore, disease didn't even exist until Urgathoa *refused to be judged by Pharasma* and became the first undead. Depending on the level of truthiness in that story, the Horseman of Disease wouldn't exist without Urgathoa (since disease itself didn't exist before Urgathoa).
If perhaps that story is a bit oversold, and disease did exist, to a lesser degree, pre-Urgathoa, then perhaps the Horseman of Disease had something to do with Urgathoa becoming a god in the first place, and the link between that goddess, allowed to keep a residence in Abaddon, and the Horsemen (or, at least, one of the Horsemen) is much closer and more dependent upon each other than is generally admitted...
It's intriguing that Urgathoa isn't the only one selling this tale. The Horsemen seem to be keeping their mouths shut, while *Pharasma* seems to be invested in blaming Urgathoa for the spread of disease on the mortal plane, as a side-effect of defying her judgement.
The mystery to me is, if disease (and the Horseman thereof) existed before Urgathoa skipped out on death, then why would Pharasma be complicit in maintaining the lie that Urgathoa (and her defying of Pharasma's judgement) is the cause of disease?
I think a lot of this depends heavily on pinning down the timescale of when Urgathoa became the first undead, and if she did this before or after Abaddon itself existed. I won't be the one to make that determination, but I'll happily offer suggestions for the implications of either case. >:)
But I will say that one of the earliest sources on daemons 'The Withered Footsteps' talks about the creation of other soul-eating creatures, presumably including undead. If so that would imply either that Abaddon popped up after Urgathoa, or that Urgathoa was not in fact the first undead being (just perhaps the first one to gain divinity). Ponder that.
All of this is just ideas for folks to play with. Whatever ideas I have in my head regarding the history of some of this, assuming I've considered it before, may or may not reflect what I write below. And of course none of it is considered canonical unless it appears in print.
So consider the implications of what if Urgathoa appeared after Abaddon first bubbled into existence. Urgathoa might have been a convenient scapegoat to blame the creation of disease upon to mortals because it might have first been the creation of the Oinodaemon. Pharasma heard a singular, hungry voice from the depths of Abaddon demanding souls, demanding the death of all living things, and later taunting the Goddess of Death as it began to create things to foster that end, spreading its gifts and tools across the planes, culminating when it created the Four as its servitors.
Pharasma did nothing however. She saw the coming Great Betrayal by the Four, and when it happened, perhaps with aid by Urgathoa to the Horseman of Disease, Pharasma sat and watched, content for the moment with the outcome. The First was bound away and its lesser children ruled, but should it ever be woken up to retake its seat of power, the planes could not know of it. Pharasma took pains to erase knowledge of the Oinodaemon, and seemingly the Four did as well. Urgathoa was conveniently blamed for the creation of disease, rather than the entity that did, hiding its name as well as its culpability. Urgathoa would be all the more happy to claim responsibility since it bolsters her prestige, and Pharasma lets her make the claim, knowing her as a self-interested but ultimately less omnicidal evil than the dead/bound Oinodaemon.
And of course the Four aren't going to counter either Pharasma's claim or Urgathoa's claim. They don't need any angry gods being handed any other reasons to obliterate them, and allowing Urgathoa to make her claims only lets them have an allied or at least non-hostile divinity sitting happily on their plane as a bit of protection money if you will from all the other gods whose worshipers souls they make every effort to ensnare and devour. Perhaps more so, more than anyone else, the Four are HORRIFIED at the notion that the Oinodaemon might ever return. They worship, hate, adore, and fear their maker all at once, and more than anyone else they're invested in making sure that the less people are aware of it the better. Their own prestige is diminished if they're seen as lesser to the First Daemon (which at this stage in time they aren't at all whatsoever, but even the perception is something that will not accept), and what if mortals started worshiping it? They don't want to allow any possibility of the First's return or empowerment at their expense or at all to ever occur. They'll happily be a partner in any conspiracy to blame Urgathoa for causing disease, even the Horseman of Disease himself.
But as for the planes being alive? It's a concept that I like, and certainly the oldest planes like the Maelstrom and the Abyss seem to be alive in and of themselves. Abaddon probably didn't start off that way, but it arguably is alive now. As for the others? I'd probably leave that an open question, and in terms of alive, it might not be so much sentience as the planes operate like living organisms, growing, repairing themselves, expanding, etc.Hmm, I suddenly had a vision of Trelmaryxian carefully transforming the prime material plane into a disease carrier. A subtle, insidious cancer that infects mortals, slowly eroding their morality and ethics, a famine of the soul. Over generations (daemons can be quite patient, after all) the gods' influence and support is gradually weakened, and the percentage of the River of Souls "earmarked" for Abaddon grows through no obvious cause. Hilarity ensues.
What do you think, seem like the basis for an interesting campaign?
I'll admit, Trelmarixian is my favorite (though given their history and current status, I'd count Trelmarixian and Lyutheria as a package deal of sorts). :)
I could see this happening, but I'd be hesitant to put it solely at the hands of Trelmarixian himself. I'd suggest adding in Charon perhaps as he tends to be the most patient of the Four (with Trel perhaps the most ambitious), but even putting in that neither of them came up with the idea in the first place, either a former Horseman like Yrsinius, Balishek, or the Oinodaemon itself. I could see the Four having possession of things created or written by the First, being unable to use them or fully divine their purpose, but with them trying to carry out plans devised but never implemented by the First nonetheless.
Thanks, Todd! I like the idea of the First being behind the original scheme. But then again, it would only have an effect after the Devouring Court was established, wouldn't it? That would seem to point to Lyutheria. (And thus, as you say, Trelmarixian at some point.)
Perhaps the daemonic timeline is being left deliberately vague for now, but hopefully you can provide some insights. I'm under the impression the general order of events surrounding the transition from the First to the Four was:
1) the creation of astradaemons by the First
2) the Great Betrayal
3) the creation of the Devouring Court (in response to demands from the Four)
Is that accurate? Are other significant events part of that transition?
Has it ever been established when the Great Betrayal happened, how long ago the Four overthrew the First? I can't tell if it's a matter of centuries or millenia.
Is it safe to assume Earthfall is the initial cataclysmic event that resulted in the First coming into being?
Did the creation of the Devouring Court reduce the frequency/severity of daemonic raids on the River of Souls?
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Todd, I had a question about Axis.
Looking through The Great Beyond, I'm repeatedly stumped as to why the map of axis looks so small, given its central place in the cosmology. Judging from the scale of buildings n the map, Axis is smaller than Korvosa, and for a planar metropolis that doesn't seem to make any sense. Is the map really accurate, or is it a misrepresentation of size and scale.
Furthermore, is Axis the plane the same thing as Axis the city, or is there more to the plane than Axis itself? The book seems to indicate the latter is true, but doesn't go into much detail on what else may reside beyond the golden barrier wall except for (for reasons I cannot comprehend) the forge where inevitables are built...
I would say at a minimum that the map isn't precisely to scale, and that it contains elements of geometry in which some places such as Abadar's domain, Aroden's former domain, etc that are significantly larger on the inside than on the outside.
The map also differs a bit from the original intent, though I'd have to look back if that is reflected in the text or not. I would put Aroden's former domain inside of Axis rather than outside of it, but completely walled off and bound such that the conflict for its space doesn't spill over into the rest of the city/plane. Likewise I would put the Crucible inside of the walls as well, but probably inside of such a dimensional pocket bigger on the inside than outside, yet still expansive on the outside as well. It really should be inside of the city walls, and honestly everything described should be inside of the walls as well, with the possible exception of Pharasma's Spire, which is adjacent to the city and not a part of it proper, but nor is it within the Maelstrom either, it just borders it as it borders Axis.
Axis the plane should be the same as Axis the city. The city grows, and as the space expands, those exterior walls sitting at the edge of the Maelstrom's shallows (whatever the terrain might actually...
That's more in line with how I was envisioning Axis as well, a planar tesseract of a city lije some sort of 4-dimensional Sigil. The notion of the city expanding outward, growing the plane, reminds me of the "moving city" visuals of the movie Dark City as well. Inhabitants standing around as suddenly the streets widen, new buildings "unfold" from the ground below and towers rise up in the distance as the outer wall slides further away.
Thanks a lot for that answer, it helps me envision things much better,
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The notion of the city expanding outward, growing the plane, reminds me of the "moving city" visuals of the movie Dark City as well. Inhabitants standing around as suddenly the streets widen, new buildings "unfold" from the ground below and towers rise up in the distance as the outer wall slides further away.
I love this visual. Very awesome.
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That's more in line with how I was envisioning Axis as well, a planar tesseract of a city lije some sort of 4-dimensional Sigil. The notion of the city expanding outward, growing the plane, reminds me of the "moving city" visuals of the movie Dark City as well. Inhabitants standing around as suddenly the streets widen, new buildings "unfold" from the ground below and towers rise up in the distance as the outer wall slides further away.
Thanks a lot for that answer, it helps me envision things much better,
Love that movie. :)
Keep in mind however that as I see it, the extradimensionality is going to be strictly ordered. When Axis expands it's planned, you know it's coming, it can be predicted. The location of places larger on the outside than the inside is known.
That's in stark contrast to a place like Galisemni drifting in the Maelstrom where the entire dimensionality of the city might alter between mundane flat cityscape, to a multidimensional escher painting folding in upon itself a dozen different ways with only the basics mapped out because almost nothing stays in the same place except for a few things that remain in relative position with respect to one another.
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Thanks, Todd! I like the idea of the First being behind the original scheme. But then again, it would only have an effect after the Devouring Court was established, wouldn't it? That would seem to point to Lyutheria. (And thus, as you say, Trelmarixian at some point.)
Perhaps the daemonic timeline is being left deliberately vague for now, but hopefully you can provide some insights. I'm under the impression the general order of events surrounding the transition from the First to the Four was:
1) the creation of astradaemons by the First
2) the Great Betrayal
3) the creation of the Devouring Court (in response to demands from the Four)
Is that accurate? Are other significant events part of that transition?
I would say that Balishek's obliteration (the eponymous Horseman of Balishek's Crater in Abaddon) would be placed early on, prior to the Great Betrayal.
I would put the creation of the Oblivion Compass also prior to the Great Betrayal.
Has it ever been established when the Great Betrayal happened, how long ago the Four overthrew the First? I can't tell if it's a matter of centuries or millenia.
A long, long time ago. Centuries or millennia aren't on the same time scale as this.
Is it safe to assume Earthfall is the initial cataclysmic event that resulted in the First coming into being?
Not safe to assume that at all. We know when Earthfall happened, and it was really relatively recently.
While Golarion occupies a very special place in the perspective of the gods and the planes, being the prison of Rovagug, I wouldn't necessarily assume that the First had anything to do with Golarion, versus originating elsewhere on some other world totally unassociated. It's probably best to leave that vague and unanswered really.
Did the creation of the Devouring Court reduce the frequency/severity of daemonic raids on the River of Souls?
I would say yes, but it's more complex than that. The frequency/severity of raids decreased around that time, but was it because of the Four curtailing their hunger as a response to Pharasma granting them the Devouring Court? Or was it because they had overthrown the First and taken control of that for themselves rather than the Oinodaemon?
Probably a bit of both IMO. They certainly hold up the frequency and ferocity of those raids on the River of Souls during the tenure of the Oinodaemon as a looming, implied threat should their flow of souls from the Devouring Court ever be throttled. They've also probably gotten more selective about what they take even if the flow of that theft is lessened, and if the Four can in theory blame some of the Harbingers for thefts, since knowledge of astradaemon creation has spread to their ranks (or been deliberately gifted), they have some plausible deniability for some of the theft that occurs, should it go above whatever threshold they reduced it to after the Devouring Court opened.
All that brings up a related question: was Urgathoa the first undead creature of Golarion, making her merely a "local" goddess of undeath, or was she the first in the cosmology to achieve that state, and a universe-wide power on the scale of Asmodeus or Pharasma? Judging by your statements here, I'm guessing the latter.
All that brings up a related question: was Urgathoa the first undead creature of Golarion, making her merely a "local" goddess of undeath, or was she the first in the cosmology to achieve that state, and a universe-wide power on the scale of Asmodeus or Pharasma? Judging by your statements here, I'm guessing the latter.
I'd say that she has a cosmology-wide importance rather than being of only local importance. Not as old as Pharasma or Asmodeus, but of cosmology-wide acceptance and importance.
Either it's true that she was the first undead creature, or she was the first undead creature to achieve divine apotheosis who then has since made the claim that she was the first ever undead with no qualifier. It could be fun to raise questions about her claim in a campaign, but as far as canon goes, Pharasma certainly hasn't contradicted Urgathoa's claim whatsoever.
Some friends and I are thinking of putting together a homebrew campaign of our own based around Daemons. We've only got a bit of a sketchy start of a plot, but it's starting to look like a large-scale murder mystery-slash-cultist activity plotline. Do you have any recommendations or tips, particularly for writing daemons and daemon cultists, their methods and desires, etc.? Also, how to keep the mystery of a mystery plot from being too easily unraveled once the PCs start getting access to magic?
Thanks in advance!
Some friends and I are thinking of putting together a homebrew campaign of our own based around Daemons. We've only got a bit of a sketchy start of a plot, but it's starting to look like a large-scale murder mystery-slash-cultist activity plotline. Do you have any recommendations or tips, particularly for writing daemons and daemon cultists, their methods and desires, etc.? Also, how to keep the mystery of a mystery plot from being too easily unraveled once the PCs start getting access to magic?
Thanks in advance!
MY PLAYERS: STOP READING NOW!!!
The PCs were hired by a representative of a local would-be baron claiming hold of a region sandwiched more or less between Daggermark and Loric Fells in the River Kingdoms. Baron Abrimin I was of course Bezalasus the Looming Thunder (not that the PCs knew of this for certain till they'd signed on and actually destroyed the cult plaguing his self-claimed barony and recovered the objects the cult had stolen from him, one of which was more or less a ransom to keep the dragon from directly dealing with them himself).
The cult was actually one of Urgathoa, except for their high priestess Serafina, who was actually a cleric of Apollyon posing as a cleric of Urgathoa. She'd joined the original cult, usurped her position from the previous priestess and managed to fake it by both recruiting new members with a woefully poor knowledge of authentic rituals, killing off original members who knew any better, and keeping the animated head of her predecessor around to answer any questions about Urgathoan rituals and practices. Like a disease carrier starting a plague and then moving on, letting the population crash in their absence, she would have eventually done the same once the Urgathoans had done enough in her master's service, if not in her master's name.
Ultimately she was an apprentice to a cleric of Trelmarixian named Father Locust (mentioned and described in BotD 3). He would train his proteges to start their own local cults or hijack those of other gods, and leave him entirely out of the picture once a plague, or blight, or war, rash of undead, etc broke out.
My players' PCs killed most of the cult members (well technically the once-but-no-longer charmed troll the cult had killed most of the cult members), and destroyed the blight inducing relic left behind by Father Locust. They have the talking head of the former cult leader, and while it only answers horrific Urgathoan religious trivia for the most, it did give them an idea that a tiefling (Father Locust) was present when Serafina killed her. They also recovered a note that Serafina had written to her mentor who she addressed by name, which provides some hints about their plans as well as potentially where he went after he left.
Ultimately where the daemons play into the campaign metaplot remains to be seen, and I've promised my players that the campaign isn't going to be NE fiend'centric after going kinda crazy with yugoloths in our last 3.5 campaign.
Obviously there's a hell of a lot more going on than would appear obvious: such as an Ebon Wayfinder being among the dragon's gifts which contained a hidden letter from the wayfinder's former owner to her sister, also a pathfinder society member, talking about the sister's excavations in Ustalav on behalf of Baron Abrimin I (though she didn't appear to know he was actually a blue dragon) and an otherwise undescribed box found in Renchurch in Ustalav, near to where Father Locust may have been heading. And there was also a Well of Many Worlds gifted along with the above and some other, relatively random objects the dragon included as bonus payment, all of it he claimed having belonged to would-be thieves and brigands causing problems for his subjects. What random level <4 brigand has a well of many worlds? One apparently stitched with poetic stanzas written in Draconic, and an older one written in Aklo? Yeah...
That's how I've handled things in my own use of a daemonic cult, but let me go eat dinner and later this evening I'll post some more general ideas on using daemonic cults in your campaign.
Awesome, looking forward to it =D
Some friends and I are thinking of putting together a homebrew campaign of our own based around Daemons. We've only got a bit of a sketchy start of a plot, but it's starting to look like a large-scale murder mystery-slash-cultist activity plotline. Do you have any recommendations or tips, particularly for writing daemons and daemon cultists, their methods and desires, etc.? Also, how to keep the mystery of a mystery plot from being too easily unraveled once the PCs start getting access to magic?
Thanks in advance!
Have you read the daemon cults section of Book of the Damned III? That's probably the best source on how they structure cults, how those cults operate, begin, end, etc.
But without duplicating that information, here are a few things to keep in mind:
The more powerful the daemon, the more patient it's going to be. They want nothing more than to kill as many mortals as possible, but if they can hold their urges and in the end be able to kill more mortals, they'll do so.
They're going to utterly despise mortals, even those that they work with. A particular daemon might handle this by simply being cold, emotionally distant, and quiet, or they might be open about their disgust to those venerating their masters back in Abaddon. The balance between wanting to massacre mortals versus manipulating them into causing more mortal death by proxy is going to be handled differently by different daemons, both by their individual personality, whatever Horsemen or Harbinger they follow, and what type of daemon they are.
Cultists are going to come in several flavors, sometimes within the same cult. Some won't be aware of the actual daemonic nature of the figure they're worshiping or acting in the name of. Some will be aware that they're worshiping Apollyon for instance, but they'll be of the delusion that they're special, their master doesn't want to kill them, or that they'll do great enough deeds in their master's name to avoid that sort of fate. And then the third kind are those who are both aware of the nature of their masters and the fate awaiting them, and who either just don't care, or who eagerly await their own death and consumption if it would please the Horsemen.
As far as mystery plots: make things convoluted. Every campaign I've run, my players have ended up making a flow chart to organize how different NPCs and organizations interact with one another and I heavily trend towards very complex and multiple plots going on within a campaign. Powerful NPCs and demigod level entities like the 4 Horsemen are either going to potentially have magic or artifacts that stymie some forms of magical detection and divinations, or for the latter they might simply be immune to much of it. Additionally, I find that vague answers for magical divination that leave things open to PC interpretation (and potentially confusion) on some level works to avoid having such spells be a magical 'avoid plot' button.
Thanks, that helps a lot =) I'll let you know how things go once we get the ball rolling. Appreciate it!
So Todd, Eternity's Doorstep. What's going on there? What inspiration did you draw from in creating it? Why, when I think about it, is my head filled with the mournful whispers of those who have not yet died?
For the moment it's one of many open mysteries (I really do like those) seeded across the planes that may or may not in time be further explored. What I personally would put within it, and who I would have be responsible for constructing it and for what purpose... yes, I do have an idea and I figure over time I might try to insert some hints towards that end, assuming it's relevant to something I work on for Paizo in the future. It's one among many little things I'd love to explore in the future. But yes, there's an answer in my own mind, and it's connected to things I've written about before. :D
Ultimately the sphere would seem to be a trap, denying access to any reward or punishment to be found within the normal cycle and progression of souls. Why and to what purpose is for the moment intentionally an open thing for DMs to work out in their own campaigns, but again I do have an idea in mind.
That answer is however different in many ways from the original incarnation of Eternity's Doorstep: see below.
As for inspiration, it's inspired by a similar location in my game home. Therein, the mythology was that the spherical city known as the Deathheart (see the 3e MotP) was itself an attempt to mimic Eternity's Doorstep by people who originally thought (erroneously) that it held a paradise locked away within the depths of the Void, protected from all intrusion.
Mind you, that game was a 3e Planescape game, and what Eternity's Doorstep was in that game isn't what it would be for Golarion, based on what does and doesn't exist on Golarion's planes and it's cosmological history. No NE ur-fiends / baernaloths in Pathfinder.
In that original game the miles wide sphere of black glass was essentially a soul trap, though that function wasn't so much to trap outsiders within itself, but to keep the original occupants forever locked within, denied true-death and denied their own proper place on the Outer Planes. The sphere was originally constructed by a trio of baernaloths, all of whom had long since been killed or simply abandoned the reality of the Great Wheel for elsewhere, ceding control of its long-term fate to the 13 baern eventually known as the Demented.
They constructed it in the depths of Negative Energy as far away metaphysically from their own seat of power and that of their rivals among the other first generation of alignment exemplars to conduct an experiment on mortal souls and on their own kind. The sphere contained multiple simulated worlds, populated by mortal souls unaware of the true nature of their lives, all of which were constructed and seeded into their memories by magic in a very Dark City'esque way. They lived their lives, died, and were recycled back into new lives, with their and others' memories modified to seamlessly fit.
But like many experiments, it isn't perfectly controlled. Occasionally a captive petitioner becomes aware of the malleable reality they live within, the changing landscape, the altering history and memories of everyone around them. They become completely self aware of their own entrapment, their immortal nature, and their utter inability to escape it all from happening over and over again with no hope of salvation. They become aware and as they are, they're wrenched into the sky, screaming, for their soul-stuff to be tinkered with, tormented, and fixed for the next neverending iteration of a long-abandoned experiment (see 2004's 'The Forgotten' for how that moment would be like)
Within that framework, the focus of the entire sphere was for the development and nurturing, so to speak, of a singular creature that could best be described as a child baernaloth, their species' sole attempt to create more of their own kind, on their own terms, just to see what would happen. Now put that creature in charge of its own captive reality, godlike and yet a prisoner itself as the environment and its reaction to it day in, day out, is recorded on behalf of 'parents' who long ago abandoned it and everything within. The Demented may or may not even be aware of the original experiment, and the only other being aware was an early generation arcanaloth (pre-Heart of Darkness purge of Law and Chaos from the 'loths) who acted more or less as an overseer to the experiment, and a babysitter more or less for the living blasphemy entrusted into its care.
So yeah, dark. D:
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Wow, that original concept you based it off of is fantastic. The idea of it being less of a trap and more of a prison is certainly the direction my mind has been going with it. I've envisioned it as a plug containing what amounts to a tear in the negative energy plane into a realm of absolute nothingness (akin to a sphere of annihilation) that's sole purpose is the consumption of this reality so pave the way for the next iteration of reality to come. Some time, long ago, forces plugged that hole before it could eat away at the universe, and it has been testing the walls of its prison ever since.
Knowing that it's one of those open mysteries makes it even more tantalizing. Given its nature, I'd love to see some sort of planet/plane hopping adventure that bounces between Eox and Eternity's Doorstep for part of its run. I feel like those places would have a lot to say in regards to one-another.
Thanks for sharing that!
Which human subtype on Golarion would you say is the best one to use if I wanted to play a Cymric or Welsh person?
Unfortunately I'm not the best person to ask this question of to be perfectly honest. I haven't worked with many regions of Golarion outside of Osirion, some of the Dragon Empires, a tangential bit of Katapesh, and most recently the Worldwound.
Plus, I don't have much knowledge of those real world cultures either, so making comparisons to Golarion's ethnic groups is a bit difficult on my end.
Todd what tropes do you feel fantasy settings (in general and Golarion specifically) are missing?
Despite occasionally being sucked into reading TVtropes online, I don't particularly pay much attention to categorizing things in that capacity. My background isn't in literature or literary analysis, so I've never spent time teasing apart a story to dissect its elements for pulling out such things.
This is a bit of a difficult question for me.
There are some science-fiction associated tropes that we haven't seen much of, but with some elements in Distant Worlds (awesome book btw), and perhaps the upcoming Iron Gods AP we might see some of those. A few things from sci-fi I think might work to an extent with axiomites and their creations the inevitables as well (and yeah I'd love to work on them more).
:)
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Which human subtype on Golarion would you say is the best one to use if I wanted to play a Cymric or Welsh person?Unfortunately I'm not the best person to ask this question of to be perfectly honest. I haven't worked with many regions of Golarion outside of Osirion, some of the Dragon Empires, a tangential bit of Katapesh, and most recently the Worldwound.
Plus, I don't have much knowledge of those real world cultures either, so making comparisons to Golarion's ethnic groups is a bit difficult on my end.
I understand. Given other information I've recieved from other Paizo folks, my best bet actually would be someone from Mendev (Sarkoris being the land most like Celtic Britain and the incoming Crusaders from Rome-like places such as Taldor and Cheliax), which works well as I was planning the character for Wrath of the Righteous.
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What Obediances would you put for the Four Horseman?
I don't know how I missed this till now! :(
Obviously this is kinda quick and dirty, and it isn't canon. But in the absence of having Obediences for the Four in print, feel free to go with it till something canonical replaces it in print.
Apollyon:
While whispering a silent prayer to the Horseman of Pestilence and having marked yourself with a symbolic representation of plague, contribute to the active spread of a disease. Provide food to rats, set rotting meat for maggots to consume and mature to flies, pool stagnant water for mosquitoes, or if at all possible deliberately self-infect yourself with a disease or if having done so, spread your contagion to others. Gain a +4 profane bonus against disease effects.
Charon:
Anoint yourself with a mixture of powdered bone and rancid oil, whispering prayers to the Boatman of the Styx for one hour in the flickering light of a candle containing tallow taken from a corpse of a creature dead of old age or risen in undeath and then destroyed. Gain a +4 profane bonus against both positive and negative energy effects.
Szuriel:
Slay an intelligent, mortal creature in combat and afterwards mark your body with their blood, having watched them die. Afterwards for one hour consider how you yourself will die in battle eventually, and the many more before you that will fall before you, by your hand. So long as you retain the blood of this victim on your body and have not yet killed another victim, you may offer up this previous act for four days before requiring a fresh kill. Gain a +4 profane bonus to both CMD and CMB.
Trelmarixian:
Meditate upon the teachings of the Lysogenic Prince for one hour after sundown, having denied yourself both food and water since the previous day's sunrise. Feel the pangs of hunger and the agony of thirst and understand that this is the prelude to how all things must eventually weaken, wither, and die. Gain a +4 profane bonus against any effects causing non-lethal damage or fatigue.
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So it's been almost two years since my Ask Me thread got any questions, and I suspect that most folks aren't even aware that it exists.
So yeah, time for an absolutely shameless bump of my own thread!
:D
Ask me stuff! Proteans and daemons being my bread and butter it would seem.
Well if you really want to shamelessly promote your thread you should link it in the g talking tea thread, those guys will follow any link and help any Saudi Prince:-)
On a serious note, do you have any creatures in the upcoming Bestiary 5?
Are there any other upcoming projects you'd like to shamelessly promote :-)
Love the BotD 3, awesome book :-)
Well if you really want to shamelessly promote your thread you should link it in the g talking tea thread, those guys will follow any link and help any Saudi Prince:-)
On a serious note, do you have any creatures in the upcoming Bestiary 5?
Are there any other upcoming projects you'd like to shamelessly promote :-)
Love the BotD 3, awesome book :-)
You'll find out when Bestiary 5 comes out, won't you? :)
If I do or don't have anything in there, I can't actually talk about it until it comes out or at the very least author names are announced. That's how it works for every book.
I have work for at least two publishers that have yet to come out. Who they are and what that material is, well, again, you'll find out. *chuckle*
I've had a pretty light year, creatively speaking. I don't freelance full time, and life has thrown me some knuckleballs this year, so I haven't pursued stuff as much as I could.
That said, I'm particular happy with 'Undead Unleashed' from Paizo, 'Protean Lords of Porphyra' by Purple Duck Games, and some fiction pieces I had in 'Emissaries of Evil' 'Lords of Law' and 'Masters of Chaos' by Legendary Games.
And I'm serious happy that you enjoyed BotD3. One of my favorite things to have ever worked on. :)