Goblin Squad Member
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Is that clear enough?
How is that even remotely on point to your assertion that "In game coin IS a measure of how well a character/settlement has done"?
I get that you guys don't think there's any room for any player-crafted equivalent items in the Cash Shop. What I'm trying to do is consider the hypothetical case that Goblinworks will sell some gear in the Cash Shop. If every answer you give to the points I raise within this hypothetical starts out by denying the hypothetical, then I don't really have any response. However, if you can make a compelling case within this hypothetical, then I think I have proven myself open-minded and quite willing to be persuaded.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Nihimon
It would be unpopular with the hardcore crowd they say that they want.
The "would" keeps it all in the realm of the hypothetical.
It would damage and limit the player's in game economic play.
The "would" keeps it all in the realm of the hypothetical.
It would damage the overall vision, both here and on the internet, of the game. Not what has been promised, but what has been inferred.
The "would" keeps it all in the realm of the hypothetical.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have to pop in with another suggestion. Looking at the F2P-newbie case I think is useful as it's targeted at a segment of the player population that is much more transitional/high turn-over/immigration status even: They get their passports stamped when they join a settlement fully possibly.
But also another more specific way to look at cash shop is that the problem is: Real Cash -> In-game wealth -> purchase game power. Obviously that's wrong. What if cash shop has different options for different alignment/reputation settlements. That could be another way to look at it. Again it may come to nothing, but if say a very dangerous Dragon could be purchased by CE low rep then they are going to go on a rampage. Now a LG high rep settlement they might use the dragon as a deterrent.
What I'm saying is that power in the "right hands" may not be such a bad thing. :D
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Goblin Squad Member
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The "would" keeps it all in the realm of the hypothetical.It rejects "this hypothetical" and substitutes your own.
Not sure I am getting you clearly Nihmon. You proposed a hypothetical and want arguments against it, correct? Doesn't "would" lead you back to a possible argument against your hypothetical?
Edit: probably too late as your are quick ;) I guess those do reject yours. I simply don't want to consider yours as it is antithetical to what I think would be good for the game.
@Nihimon
Staying within your hypothetical
What percentage of players do you think would unsub when the first tier 3 sword hits the cash shop?
Secondary question what percentage of players is it worth losing over this?
Don't think people would? Ask CCP how many unsubbed when CCP put in a cash shop and merely refused to say they would never sell ships. The crowd here will be in many ways similar to the Eve crowd
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Goblin Squad Member
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You proposed a hypothetical and want arguments against it, correct?
No. I proposed a hypothetical and want analysis of the implications within that hypothetical.
I am not at all interested in repeatedly rehashing the arguments against having any gear whatsoever in the Cash Shop. I've already acknowledged the Goblinworks probably won't ever do that, and Ryan has been pretty clear in describing the problems with it.
What I would like to do is discuss a hypothetical situation where Goblinworks has already made the decision to sell a SkyMetal Sword and consider the in-game implications of it. I'm not at all suggesting that Goblinworks ought to do this. I am trying to understand the likely in-game impact of doing so. I'm not interested in how many subscribers might quit. Rather, I'm interested in analysis of what would actually happen inside the game.
I don't know how many other ways to say this.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't know how many other ways to say this.
Let me try one other way.
Imagine I'm trying to create a contingency plan for a Zombie Attack on New York City as an intellectual exercise.
Arguments of the form "Zombies aren't real", or "that would never happen" really have no place.
Instead, I'd be very interested in hearing analysis of things like logistics about how to evacuate large numbers of people from an urban environment, and some of the less obvious pitfalls of trying to do so.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You proposed a hypothetical and want arguments against it, correct?No. I proposed a hypothetical and want analysis of the implications within that hypothetical.
I am not at all interested in repeatedly rehashing the arguments against having any gear whatsoever in the Cash Shop. I've already acknowledged the Goblinworks probably won't ever do that, and Ryan has been pretty clear in describing the problems with it.
What I would like to do is discuss a hypothetical situation where Goblinworks has already made the decision to sell a SkyMetal Sword and consider the in-game implications of it. I'm not at all suggesting that Goblinworks ought to do this. I am trying to understand the likely in-game impact of doing so. I'm not interested in how many subscribers might quit. Rather, I'm interested in analysis of what would actually happen inside the game.
I don't know how many other ways to say this.
I more fully Grok your question now. Thank you.
Many of us have answered what we think would happen in the posts above. Not just to the player base, but inside the game. Look above...
@Nihimon
If they sold skymetal swords on the market
1) Merchants wouldn't be needed because the sword would magically appear in your bank
2) Crafters wouldn't be needed because you can buy the sword from the cash shop
3)Harvesters wouldn't be needed because you can buy the sword from the cash shop
4)Processors wouldn't be needed because you can buy the sword from the cash shop
5) Threads wouldn't be necessary because you can buy another sword from the cash shop
6) Pve wouldn't be needed because you can buy your sword from the cash shop so do not need coin
7) Reputation wouldn't be important because you don't need to get into that settlement to buy a sword because you can buy it direct from the cash shop
In short you do not actually need to have any player interactions in game because you can use your credit card and can happily run around pk'ing with no consequence for as long as you are willing to spend money
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Goblin Squad Member
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Is that clear enough?How is that even remotely on point to your assertion that "In game coin IS a measure of how well a character/settlement has done"?
I get that you guys don't think there's any room for any player-crafted equivalent items in the Cash Shop. What I'm trying to do is consider the hypothetical case that Goblinworks will sell some gear in the Cash Shop. If every answer you give to the points I raise within this hypothetical starts out by denying the hypothetical, then I don't really have any response. However, if you can make a compelling case within this hypothetical, then I think I have proven myself open-minded and quite willing to be persuaded.
Now I have no idea what you are saying.
In game coin IS A (not THE...just one of a number) of how well a player/settlement is doing in this sort of game.
The ability to BUY in game coin with (real cash)Goblin Balls is a complete circumvention of that.....BAD....but it still leaves open the neccesity of using that coin to obtain something usefull to you in War
The ability to purchase war material DIRECTLY with real cash, circumventing even the in game coin step is even WORSE.
Your "hypothetical" translates (to me) into the equivalent of saying "we should just break the game, ruin peoples enjoyment and let players cheat to win"..... I have no way of coming up with a scenario for making that acceptable.
I appreciate that you are trying to do it....and I'm even open being persuaded with a scenario where it doesn't come down to that....but I haven't heard one presented yet. The NPC Settlement delivery thing didn't get around most of the core problems with the "hypothetical".... if you can come up with something that does I'm willing to be persuaded.
For example in minitures games....a player who can afford to buy more minitures would have a distinct advantage. However the developers usualy address that by assigning a "point value" to each miniture and opposing armies are determined by a point buy system. Thus having more minitures doesn't yield a game-play advantage....it just allows you to play larger and more varied scenarios. If you did that in an Online Minitures Game...that would be an example of where a RMT was mitigated by a game feature so it did NOT circumvent core game-play considerations nor yield an unfair advantage.
I'm all ears if you can come up with the equivalent for your "hypothetical".
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Avena
If play of "all" alignments is encouraged then what hands are the Right Hands?
That's a good question: The players ability to make the game enjoyable for everyone else. I think that's the problem with P2W: It makes the game less enjoyable for others because it circumvents the game and possibly because the people who would pay for that with cash want their value for money.
You've got to admit a Dragon is fairly awesome creature if it was in-game and a powerful asset and somewhat exclusive, all the more so. Some CE scum attack the poor peasants working in the fields, the cry goes out... "UNLEASH the dragon!"
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Avena
If play of "all" alignments is encouraged then what hands are the Right Hands?
That's a good question: The players ability to make the game enjoyable for everyone else. I think that's the problem with P2W: It makes the game less enjoyable for others because it circumvents the game and possibly because the people who would pay for that with cash want their value for money.
You've got to admit a Dragon is fairly awesome creature if it was in-game and a powerful asset and somewhat exclusive, all the more so. Some CE scum attack the poor peasants working in the fields, the cry goes out... "UNLEASH the dragon!"
While I think that would be marvelous for my side, from the other it might seem unfair. Especially in a game where attacking is fair play.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That's true, but then maybe what would the CE low reputation settlement's equivalent be: The ability to execute members of the settlement and put their heads on spikes outside as a warning?! Just doodling ideas, maybe there is no worth but it's fun and always a faint possibility.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Nihimon
If they sold skymetal swords on the market
1) Merchants wouldn't be needed because the sword would magically appear in your bank
2) Crafters wouldn't be needed because you can buy the sword from the cash shop
3)Harvesters wouldn't be needed because you can buy the sword from the cash shop
4)Processors wouldn't be needed because you can buy the sword from the cash shop
5) Threads wouldn't be necessary because you can buy another sword from the cash shop
6) Pve wouldn't be needed because you can buy your sword from the cash shop so do not need coin
7) Reputation wouldn't be important because you don't need to get into that settlement to buy a sword because you can buy it direct from the cash shopIn short you do not actually need to have any player interactions in game because you can use your credit card and can happily run around pk'ing with no consequence for as long as you are willing to spend money
All your assertions might work for player A (cash rich) but not for player B (time rich). Player B needs all the above to buy the sword IC.
You also need reputation at a certain level to get into settlements to train. Otherwise your PKing is not going to function too well.
I am not at all interested in repeatedly rehashing the arguments against having any gear whatsoever in the Cash Shop.
[...]
Rather, I'm interested in analysis of what would actually happen inside the game.
Well, I hope you can be patient with the rest of us. Some of us do want to discuss those things. There are a number of different little sub-conversations flowing through this thread, and I'd like to think it's big enough for all of them.
So how about I consider yours?
I think part of my objection- which I believe is shared with others- is that cash-shop alternatives to in-game items, when bought and used, reduce the amount of "play" going on in the game.
When I buy a SkyMetal Sword, I go to the NPC settlement and I pick it up. (Or maybe even it appears in my backpack.) That doesn't involve a lot happening in the world at large. A hundred thousand people could do that and the world would still be empty and dead.
When I buy a Masterwork Steel sword, I go to a settlement and look at the auction house. On the way, I pass various merchants bringing their wares to town; I see a list of swords on sale, and note that there are a number of merchants competing for business. I know that my friend also will need a good sword some day, so I write down the name of one of the blacksmiths to mail him later. I buy my sword and go.
Yesterday, that merchant was in his settlement, meeting with some of his company-mates. He collected swords from the blacksmith and leather armor from the leatherworker. He then rounded up a ranger (to track humans) and a fighter, to protect from bandits; and he loaded the goods into a cart and began traveling. They traveled together for an hour before they made it to the major settlement. An assassin tried to kill the merchant on the way, but the ranger detected him and delayed him enough for the fighter to kill him.
The day before that, a smelter was in a nearby settlement. That settlement controls one of the only sources of flux for making steel; he was negotiating with some of the miners there. Then, he brought back his purchase to his own settlement (having to sneak around to avoid the goblin camp by the road). He took iron that he had bought on auction a few days before that, and spent a good while refining it until it was steel. Then, he looked up the mail his company leader had sent him; he was supposed to give some steel to two different blacksmiths (an armorsmith and a weaponsmith), and put the rest of it in the guild bank, for a rainy day.
The day before that, the miners were getting ready. The flux was their most valuable resource, and a spot for a camp had just opened up. They gathered the volunteers- two miners, a paladin, and a sorceress, and went off to mine. They had a hard time protecting the camp; goblins kept attacking in waves. In the end, they couldn't hold it; they filled their backpacks with what flux they had mined so far, and left the mining camp to be destroyed.
The day before that, the paladin was at an auction house. He began shopping for a Masterwork Steel Sword...
If you have a hundred thousand people doing that, the world will not be empty. It will be rich and full and exciting.
@Nihimon
If they sold skymetal swords on the market
1) Merchants wouldn't be needed because the sword would magically appear in your bank
2) Crafters wouldn't be needed because you can buy the sword from the cash shop
3)Harvesters wouldn't be needed because you can buy the sword from the cash shop
4)Processors wouldn't be needed because you can buy the sword from the cash shop
5) Threads wouldn't be necessary because you can buy another sword from the cash shop
6) Pve wouldn't be needed because you can buy your sword from the cash shop so do not need coin
7) Reputation wouldn't be important because you don't need to get into that settlement to buy a sword because you can buy it direct from the cash shopIn short you do not actually need to have any player interactions in game because you can use your credit card and can happily run around pk'ing with no consequence for as long as you are willing to spend money
All your assertions might work for player A (cash rich) but not for player B (time rich). Player B needs all the above to buy the sword IC.
You also need reputation at a certain level to get into settlements to train. Otherwise your PKing is not going to function too well.
I was referring to the Cash rich not needing these
If there are 10% using credit cards for their purchases that is 10% less demand for all these things. 10% cut in meaningful player interaction. The whole point is the game is about player interaction and the need players have for each other. Allowing players to cut themselves off from that need is bad for the game. I have humoured those that want to consider what if zombies invade and that is as far as I am going. I am no longer bothering to discuss further a scenario where everything is available by credit card because it won't ever happen.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm missing something in this discussion of hypothetical "very nice" T3 swords: we can safely assume it'll be inferior to a player-made T3 sword.
Ryan's said the material goods (at least the healing potions he's mentioned so far) in the cash shop will be at least slightly inferior to what players can make. So why the worry about the sword?
Is it because it'll be a T3 sword, which, while inferior to a T3 sword a player-crafter can make, will still be superior to a player-made T2 sword? Are there other aspects of concern?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, I hope you can be patient with the rest of us. Some of us do want to discuss those things.I am not at all interested in repeatedly rehashing the arguments against having any gear whatsoever in the Cash Shop.
[...]
Rather, I'm interested in analysis of what would actually happen inside the game.
Of course. I am an extremely patient man.
And when I said "I am not interested", I didn't mean to imply that everyone who posts in this thread or on these forums should make sure their post is interesting to me. I was trying to clarify the types of responses I was hoping to get, and the types of posts I would be likely to respond to.
... cash-shop alternatives to in-game items, when bought and used, reduce the amount of "play" going on in the game.
And that's a great objection to raise with Goblinworks, but it's not something I'm going to respond to again.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ryan's said the material goods (at least the healing potions he's mentioned so far) in the cash shop will be at least slightly inferior to what players can make.
That's not actually what he said.
Our commitment to the player community is that none of those things will be the best in the game - a player crafted item will always be at least as good, if not better, than anything you can buy in the store.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Suppose that the best equipment on the coin market was also on the cash market, at prices so high that nobody bought it with cash.
The effect would be identical to the effect of that equipment not being available on the cash shop.
Suppose instead that it was available on the cash shop for free; the effect would be complete destruction of the coin market.
Now suppose that the cash price was set high, but not out of everybody's reach. Some EvE players paid $60 for a cosmetic item that nobody else ever saw, and were happy with it, so we can set that as our lower bound for "Some people will buy stuff with no mechanical benefit at $60." I think that $500 is closer to an absolute upper bound for a piece of the best equipment, but I'll do the math with $75-enough for three month-long Goblin balls.
Is it worse for a merchant to lose his single biggest sale each month due to cash shop purchases, or to have three additional players (one of whom is a direct competitor) due to goblin ball sales?
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Goblin Squad Member
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@DeciusBrutus
I have a feeling that any direct competitor might be as skilled a crafter as the merchant. That person would likely be a subscriber also.
The fact remains that every item created from "thin air" reduces the need to craft that item, in-game, and blocks the opportunities of a long chain of players.
I do not see Ryan ever placing gear in the cash shop. There is no reason for him to do it as he knows he would lose a certain percentage of players and GW can still generate the same amount of cash from the sale of Goblin Balls which would be used to exchange for coins
Bottom line items in the cash shop will cause loss of subs and loss of content by the reduction of game play. It would be a strange move for them to make. I firmly believe that were they to take a poll on this the consensus would be very much behind no items in the cash shop.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The fact remains that every item created from "thin air" reduces the need to craft that item, in-game, and blocks the opportunities of a long chain of players.
I'm sure this doesn't completely solve it, but just thinking outside of the box. Maybe the items in the NPC/cash shop don't need to be created out of thin air.
Maybe when the player character buys that T3 sword in the starter town, a T3 sword in a market somewhere in the gamespace is bought up by a Goblin Bot.
The T3 sword that was sold by the NPC could be priced at least 150% of the average price for swords. The sword that was bot-bought could be selected at semi-random from all player markets, weighted towards stuff sold below market price. The difference is NPC transport costs and coin drain.
Some caveats would have to apply. That T3 sword won't even appear in the NPC/cash shop unless there are a good number for sale in the world. If the road to your town is interdicted by bandits, etc., or if you've closed off your town to outsiders, your market items might not be sold or even considered in the world-wide count.
This would allow almost all of the creation chains to work. It would hand-wave away the transport of goods from player-towns to the starter towns (provided the roads were safe), but transport from starter town outward would still be required. And by buying stuff from any town market it might reduce (not eliminate) market clutter in the start towns.
@Urman
There is already a solution...buy goblin balls, swap for coin, find the sword you want to buy.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ZenPagan
How many of your objections below get resolved if the items sold in the NPC/cash shop are being bought from player markets in the game space?
If they sold skymetal swords on the market
1) Merchants wouldn't be needed because the sword would magically appear in your bank
2) Crafters wouldn't be needed because you can buy the sword from the cash shop
3)Harvesters wouldn't be needed because you can buy the sword from the cash shop
4)Processors wouldn't be needed because you can buy the sword from the cash shop
5) Threads wouldn't be necessary because you can buy another sword from the cash shop
6) Pve wouldn't be needed because you can buy your sword from the cash shop so do not need coin
7) Reputation wouldn't be important because you don't need to get into that settlement to buy a sword because you can buy it direct from the cash shop
@Urman
Why when we already have a solution introduce another? We know goblin balls will exist and be sellable for in game coin.
Your solution still means that the player wanting the sword does not need to go and find the sword he wants. He still stands no chance of being robbed on the way to the sword he wants. It still does not answer the fact that some people so despise cash shops selling equipment that they will not play such a game.
Why do you think it is necessary to sell items in the cash shop when you know it will annoy a percentage of the players? What benefit do you see that justifies that annoyance over and above...buy goblin balls, exchange for coin, go off and find weapon you want?
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If Ryan is going to be selling healing potions as a convenience item, I'm just interested in where the cut-off is. Doesn't the sale of potions undercut the herbalists and alchemists?
If potions are sold as a convenience item, why not something else? I'm saying items could be sold for convenience (at a hefty mark-up), but would be limited to common player-made items - in fact, are actual player made items and generating coin for the players who made them.
I'm not looking to buy stuff in the coin shop; that's not why I play or how I play. But in my view, if DadWith7Kids buys a convenient healing potion/backpack/sword/whatever it just gets him out into the game world that much faster. It's no skin off my teeth if he buys outright with cash or has to handle goblin balls, but why waste his time having to do the GB/coin trade? And once he's out in the world there's plenty of ways to interact with him.
(My objection to my own suggestion is that it circumvents the no-auction house design. I think it would mostly impact the merchants that hope to buy goods cheap in the rural areas and sell them dearly to new players and PvE stalwarts in the starter towns.)
Edit: ^ Dario caught me. :)
It would be a lot like an auction house, but buying with coin and selling for inflated values for cash. A large cash source driving a small-medium coin faucet.
@Urman
I am hoping we can crowdforge Ryan into agreeing that no player made items should be for sale in the cash shop not even healing potions. Certainly that is my stance on the subject. I believe the npc towns will in any case be fairly important trade hubs due to their innate safety and the fact that everyone can visit them.So I do not see it inhibiting dadwith7kids in any case.
I am all for the sale of goblin balls indeed purely because of dadwith7kids who hasn't necessarily the same time as some of us and would rather be able to play the parts of the game he likes rather than spend half off his limited play time grinding for coin.
I believe there have been many good ideas suggested in this thread for items that could be sold in the cash shop without needing to sell items that are player made and that these would be more than enough to make goblin works the money they need.
I have yet to see a good reason suggested for selling items such as a T3 sword in the cash shop even if it is slightly worse than a player might make. In fact the only reasons I have seen suggested so far for it being good is it would make Goblinworks money and it would act as a price control. I think the make money is answered by goblin balls and all of the other suggestions, price control I personally do not see as necessary
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ZenPagan
I'd be fine with no player-made items, including potions. I'm mostly interested in the system being consistent across the board.
A minor caveat: in the opening stages of the game, before the EE players have time to develop their skills, there might be a need for sales of consumables, preferably for coin, not cash. But that might just be for a week or two. Issuing each starting character 2 healing potions (in the first month) and letting them trade between themselves might serve the same purpose.
@Urman
Indeed there maybe a need and the way to handle that is some sell orders on the npc town market places placed by the GM's. These can be gradually scaled back as crafters come on line with skills.
I believe that is how Eve handled it at first
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't like the idea of items with in-game benefits available in the cash shop at all. I think there is plenty of revenue potential in cosmetic items-the analogy of a music box was excellent (although I'll bet there are crafters who'd want to create such things as well). The number of neat, shiny thingies and ways to make already bought or earned gear look distinctive is only limited by the prodigious imagination of Goblinworks. That being said, it has been stated that consumables with in-game benefits will be offered. Why can't these be limited to the lowest such items? That way Dadwith7kids can spend a few bucks to try the game and crafters/gatherers/harvesters can have a milestone to shoot for where they are no longer in competition with the cash shop. I believe limiting purchasing to the use of Goblin Balls and not direct real world transactions is crucial; it forces purchasers to interact with the in-game world to buy stuff with all subsequent permutations. This way the Goblin Balls (my next garage band!) would actually augment player interaction/conflict instead of circumvent it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
On a lighter note, Nihimon has said a few times that when it comes to items in the cash shop, the point is probably moot. It got me thinking "Live, at the Blind Traveller Inn! Come see Nihimon perform the 80s' classic 'Jessies' Girl' and make it eternally his own!"
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Goblin Squad Member
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That being said, it has been stated that consumables with in-game benefits will be offered. Why can't these be limited to the lowest such items? That way Dadwith7kids can spend a few bucks to try the game and crafters/gatherers/harvesters can have a milestone to shoot for where they are no longer in competition with the cash shop.
Even if the lowest of each type of consumable were available in the coin shop, Dadwith7kids could probably get a better deal if he did the goblin ball/coin swap. The starter towns will be full of starting crafters trying to get a few coin for their entry level creations, many of which might be consumables.
I wonder what the minimum cost of a coin shop item is? A month of training time? A week? A day?
They have said they will sell training time in many denominations from a day to a month
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Goblin Squad Member
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That being said, it has been stated that consumables with in-game benefits will be offered. Why can't these be limited to the lowest such items? That way Dadwith7kids can spend a few bucks to try the game and crafters/gatherers/harvesters can have a milestone to shoot for where they are no longer in competition with the cash shop.Even if the lowest of each type of consumable were available in the coin shop, Dadwith7kids could probably get a better deal if he did the goblin ball/coin swap. The starter towns will be full of starting crafters trying to get a few coin for their entry level creations, many of which might be consumables.
I wonder what the minimum cost of a coin shop item is? A month of training time? A week? A day?
I would hope that players will compete with the cash shop even at lower levels but I can see a scenario where Dadwith7kids visits the shop to buy some training time and try this game his friends are talking about. While there, he also buys a starter adventurer package somewhat akin to the gear packages found in Pathfinder Society. Might be more convenient, I don't know. All this through Goblin Balls, of course. Still wanna cast my vote for 'no gear in the cash shop' whether it's moot or not.
If they sell goblin balls in 1 day.1 week.2 week. and 1 month denominations there will be plenty of options for people to buy an amount of coins to get a start.
In addition I believe there will be many guilds looking to recruit willing to lend a helping hand to the new player at the start of the game.
I as an eve player currently will often give away ships I no longer need to people who I believe deserve a helping hand. I judge that from what they say over time in chat but I have given away fully fitted battlecruisers before now in eve
I posted a suggestion for that earlier papaver just so you could buy one...see my user object post and think
object title : I win button
object text : (tool tip) a red button with I win in white letters
object use : (right click) /em you click the button and win the game
I am just trying to imagine bluddwolfs face when he loots 500 I win buttons off a merchant :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would pay $5.99 for a large amount of useless, nearly weightless, items to carry around for "husk" games...
"After a long hard chase, you finally catch the escaping merchant. You find that three bulging sacks he was carrying are filled with styrofoam packing peanuts. There is no good way to get rid of them, so they go into your inventory..."