I had an idea for a gunslinger Ninja build for pathfinder society. The idea is that he would be the party face and also a big damage dealer. Just wondering what people think of this build and is it society legal. I will show how i envisage his level progression and damage potential in the first 2 turns of combat. It is built around the idea of combining grit points and Ki points to maximum effect, combining firearms ignoring armor and flatfooted ignoring Dex to fire against a near constant 10 AC or lower.
Sorry for how long it is.
Summary is combine Focused aim with vanishing trick for high damage shots and double-barreled pistol and rapid shot for multiple shots per turn.
Damage progression summary (average peR turn)
Level 1 = 9
Level 2 = 21
Level 3 = 29
Level 4 = ?
Level 1
At level 1 he is just a mysterious stranger with a normal pistol and always using cartridges just trying to save money until level 2
Human (Alternate trait: silver tongued)
Traits: Reactionary, (need another good one)
Gunslinger (mysterious stranger) 1: Deeds, grit, Gunsmith
Feats 1st: Rapid Reload (Double-barreled pistol), Human: Point-Blank Shot ( PB shot)
Base stats:
STR 10, DEX 17, CON 11, INT 8, WIS 8, CHA 18.
Grit: 4
Round 1: Move up to 30, fire at a hopefully flatfooted enemy. spend a grit point on focused aim (FA) to do damage and reload next turn as a move action.
Pistol: +1 BAB, +1 Point-blank shot, + 3 DEX = +5 to hit.
1d8 (4 avg) + 4 (focused aim) + 1 (point-blank shot) = 9 damage
This should be enough to one hit kill any level 1 goon and get the grit point back, or seriously damaging the level boss.Gunslinger
Round 2: Repeat same but enemy no longer flatfooted.
possible 18 damage in 2 rounds.
Level 2
Gunslinger (mysterious stranger) 1: Deeds, grit, Gunsmith
Ninja (Scout) 1: Poison use, Sneak attack +1d6
Feats 1st: Rapid Reload (Double-barreled pistol), Human: Point-Blank Shot
Grit: 4
After the first mission in level 2 he should have saved enough gold up to buy a masterwork Double-barreled Pistol. This is his weapon for the foreseeable future and will always be using the firing 2 barrels for 2 attacks as one action option.
Round 1: Same as before but adding sneak attack damage to flat footed enemy and double barreled attacks. Assuming only one sneak attack per action rather than attack, if it is the other way then it only makes this better.
DB pistol: +1 BAB, +1 masterwork, +1 PB shot, + 3 DEX, -4 both barrels = +2 hit
1d8 (4 avg) + 4 (focused aim) + 1 (PB shot) + 3 (sneak) = 12 damage
Firing 2 bullets and generally hitting against the enemy's lowest possible AC he averages 24 damage killing any level 2 goon and gaining your grit point back or seriously damaging the mission boss.
Round 2: Same as before but loose flat footed and sneak damage so averaging 9 or 18 damage depending on if both barrels hit.
Possible 42 damage in 2 rounds.
Level 3
Gunslinger (mysterious stranger) 1: Deeds, grit, Gunsmith
Ninja (Scout) 2: Poison use, Sneak attack +1d6, Ki pool, Ninja Trick.
Feats 1st: Rapid Reload (Double-barreled pistol), Human: Point-Blank Shot, 3rd: Rapid Shot (Rshot)
Grit: 4
Ki pool: 5
Ninja Trick: Vanishing trick
This is where the build gets interesting and gets most of its power. First combat turn is the same as the last but grit is not spent on focused aim instead a Ki point is spent on vanishing trick at the end of the round to go invisible for a big damage swing in round 2 with a full attack action coupled with rapid shot and double-barreled pistol and hitting flat footed AC on round 1 and 2.
Round 1: Move up to 30 into the heart of the enemy group and fire at any flat footed enemy. At the end of your turn use your swift action to activate vanishing trick.
DB pistol: +2 BAB, +1 Masterwork, +1 PB shot, + 3 DEX, -4 both barrels = +3 hit
1d8 (4 avg) + 1 (PB shot) + 3 (sneak) = 8 damage
Both barrels should hit as before doing 16 damage.
Round 2: use a full attack action coupled with rapid shot, Focused aim and DB pistol to fire at an enemy within 20. they are automatically flat footed.
,
DB pistol: +2 BAB, +1 masterwork, +1 PB shot, + 3 DEX, +2 Invisible, -4 both barrels, -2 Rshot= +3 hit. 4 Bullets.
1d8 (4 avg) + 1 (PB shot) + 4 (Focused aim) + 3 (sneak) = 12 damage (9 for bullets 3 and 4 without sneak)
Averaging 21 and 42 damage if half or all bullets hit.
Possible 58 damage in 2 rounds.
At later levels the inclusion of increased sneak damage, extra ninja and rogue tricks, deadly aim, magic items and stat bonus increases continue to help damage potential scale to threats met.
Problems i see with the build
How many Bullets would get sneak attack damage ? (I went for the lowest possible outcome, could be much higher damage the other way)
Does Rapid shot and double barreled pistol actually allow you to fire 4 Bullets in a turn ? (I guessed yes)
Does invisibility affect all the attacks you make in the turn you started invisible or just the first attack ? (I assumed all)
I wish it was a Halfling instead of a human as i think they are cooler, any way to do this with out putting me way behind on feats and damage in early levels ?
That is something i was wondering about. A double barreled pistol trades -4 to hit for 2 attacks at once with the same action. I have done my calculation erring on the side of caution only giving the first bullet sneak but i think the first 2 bullets might actually qualify as they are fired as the same action.
Also i cant see any way to get greater invisibility with out at least 7 levels in a caster class which would make the point of getting greater invisibility kind of pointless as sneak attack progression and pistol damage would be to stunted to warrant it. While i can get a minimum of 4 invisibilities a day out of vanishing trick without loosing my damage progression.
To answer your questions:
When firing both barrels simultaneously, you should get Sneak Attack damage on both.
If you can reload as a Free action, then you can reload and fire twice using Rapid Shot. So you'd need Alchemical Cartridges. Unless your GM puts a limit on Free Actions, which they may do at their discretion.
Invisibility only affects the first attack. You'd still get Sneak Attack on both barrels, but not on subsequent shots.
I can't think of any way to catch up on Feats with a race other than Human. You'd also be looking at a smaller damage die (1d6), but that won't really make much of a difference.
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Some other thoughts:
You lose the Quick Clear Deed with the Mysterious Stranger archetype, which means you have no way of dealing with misfires until you get Stranger's Fortune. And you don't get that until your 5th level of Gunslinger.
You're firing two shots a round, then four, with a misfire on any roll of 1 - 3. So 3/20 rolls will be a misfire, and a misfire will shut you down completely unless you have a backup weapon.
Firing that many shots a round with Alchemical Cartridges will not be cheap. If you can get a friendly caster to cast Abundant Ammunition on you (or use a wand that you provide) you might be able to save some gold.
Without Precise Shot, you'll be taking a -4 anytime you shoot into melee. Which means your +1 to Attack at level 1 becomes a -3.
Great points from both of you. My intention on miss fires was to make the pistol a reliable one eventually and when i have enough gold to get another one as a back up.
I don't ever intend to take another level in gunslinger past level 1 just more ninja to increase my sneak attack damage and extra Ki and ninja Skills.
The wand could be a great way to save money. Maybe with good scouting i might be able to use it just before battles and get a turn or 2 from it. Sadly though gunslingers are really gold intensive to play.
I forgot to add the +1 bonus to hit for the masterwork Double-Barreled pistol (fixed now) so my to hit is slightly better. Its not much but its something. Will also change sneak attack to affect the first 2 bullets instead of just the first.
Any ideas on a second trait and maybe a faction to join. I am thinking lantern lodge just for the ninja aspect.
So Reliable will back it down to a Misfire chance on 1 or 2. But that still means 10% of your shots misfire. And with 4 shots a round, you're looking at a very likely misfire by round 3.
A backup gun is good (a necessity, really), but two unlucky rolls and you're back to nothing.
Deleted the other level threads. I will post them later when i have better ides of what i want to do. Thanks for the heads up on editing. This is my first time posting on the forum.
What about a wand of mending. its cheap and with my high charisma bonus and maxing skill points in use magic device i would only loose one combat round to repair a pistol if both ended up miss firing. I could do it while invisible keep the character safe while repairing.
Just so you know, the Lantern Lodge will be removed from the Society in August, so if you do join, don't expect to stay long.
For traits, you could get Honored Fist of the Society for an extra Ki point. Or Blade of the Society to get +1 damage to Sneak Attacks. You'd have to swap out Reactionary, though, as they're all Combat traits.
If you do decide to go Halfling, the Isger Fixer trait may solve some of your problems:
Benefit: Once per day, you can tinker with a broken object to allow anyone who uses it to ignore the penalties for its broken condition for 24 hours (this does not affect the object’s hit points). At the end of this time, it regains the broken condition (but you can use this trait on it over and over again).
What about a wand of mending. its cheap and with my high charisma bonus and maxing skill points in use magic device i would only loose one combat round to repair a pistol if both ended up miss firing.
Unfortunately, the cast time for Mending is 10 minutes.
Those are great options. what do you think would be more useful.
Reactionary gets me a slightly better chance to got first and get a flatfooted shot in round 1.
Honored Fist gets me an extra invisibility attempt per day which would be fantastic.
Or Blade of the Society gets me a little extra guaranteed damage. Useful but i think Honored fist has it beat.
To bad about the casting time (i should have read it more closely), good item to have outside of battle for me though. I could take the Veteran of battle religion trait and Honored fist of the the society combat trait and get the best of both worlds.
Watching Taldor is essentially the same trait if you don't want to worship Gorum.
Those two would be good choices, I would think. But I'm not great at optimizing, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
If you pop out of invisibility all targets are flat footed to you untill they acted again. There fore all attacks get Sneak attack damage, doesn´t matter if on the same or different targets.
The second shot mentioned above get´s it too, unless otherwise mentioned like in manyshot for example.
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Don't you get sneak attack if you flank an opponent as a person with sneak attack? Also if this is true then don't you also have the ability to pick deadly range as a ninja trick which extends your sneak attack range by 10 feet each time you pick this so then you could shoot your pistol and keep getting sneak attack at ranged if you keep your opponent flanked or flank not possible with ranged weapons?
If you pop out of invisibility all targets are flat footed to you untill they acted again. There fore all attacks get Sneak attack damage, doesn´t matter if on the same or different targets.
The second shot mentioned above get´s it too, unless otherwise mentioned like in manyshot for example.
Flat footed is a specific condition that only exists in the start of the combat. Once you've acted in combat you don't go back to being flat footed against invisible foes, you are instead denied your dex bonus.
Being denied your dex bonus against an invisible enemy ends the second the enemy becomes visible, so even attacks in rapid succession only get sneak attack on the first attack because after that they have their dex bonus back.
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After the first mission in level 2 he should have saved enough gold up to buy a masterwork Double-barreled Pistol.
Gold yes, fame no. A masterwork double-barreled Pistol requires 13 fame, meaning you'd be at least 7 scenarios in before you could afford one, making you level 3 before you can get the weapon since guns are never always available.
That's to bad. Looks like the second level will have to be normal pistol as well so. The only way i could see around that would be doing a scenario in an area where DB pistols were available to purchase but i do not know of any.
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This is the spell you're looking for to temporarily fix your gun in combat:
However, at 1 round/level, a wand wouldn't really help. You could take the minor magic and major magic tricks, but that means you wouldn't have it until 7th level if you stick with your plan of taking Vanish at 3rd. Since by 7th you could afford a backup weapon, that might be a little late.
Dipping Mysterious Stranger is rough for just this point. Losing the Quick Clear deed is a big deal. It'll take you an hour out of combat to repair your gun (unless you carry a wand of mending... Then 10 mins). That can be an eternity in some PFS scenarios, so you risk being without access to your major class feature.
I was intending on getting the gun at at level 2 not 1 but it looks like i will have to wait for level 3 so because of fame points. At least at level 3 he is pretty awesome. Thiefling idea is cool but looses me and early feat which i need to have everything up and runing for level 3 instead of 5. I think i will go wand of mending and switching to throwing stars for the rest of he battle if all my guns jam. Its not a great fix but i can't afford 5 levels of gunslinger to make it reliable. If i was doing that i would just be better going normal gunslinger or pistolero which wastes sneak attack and ninja powers.