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Lets say my base speed is 30. I cast floating disk. After directing it to stay 1 foot away I move 30 feet. Clearly it can keep up.
However, if I double move in consecutive rounds can it keep up? (effectively moving 60 feet in a full round.)
Lets say I have a level barbarian. My base speed is now 40. Same questions.
Ok, my base speed is 30, but I take fleet four times. My base speed is not 50. Same questions.
Now I'm a high level monk with a base movement of 60. How fast can the disk move?
School evocation [force]; Level magus 1, sorcerer/wizard 1; Domain trade 1
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a drop of mercury)
EFFECT
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect 3-ft.-diameter disk of force
Duration 1 hour/level
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
DESCRIPTION
You create a slightly concave, circular plane of force that follows you about and carries loads for you. The disk is 3 feet in diameter and 1 inch deep at its center. It can hold 100 pounds of weight per caster level. If used to transport a liquid, its capacity is 2 gallons. The disk floats approximately 3 feet above the ground at all times and remains level. It floats along horizontally within spell range and will accompany you at a rate of no more than your normal speed each round. If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and you. The disk winks out of existence when the spell duration expires. The disk also winks out if you move beyond its range or try to take the disk more than 3 feet away from the surface beneath it. When the disk winks out, whatever it was supporting falls to the surface beneath it.
Also, for sake of argument in the above examples lets say I cast it twice. I sit on one and direct it to follow 2 feet from the other disk. I then direct the other disk to stay 5 feet away from me at all times.
Disregarding possible steering issues for the moment, how fast would the two disks travel with a caster's base speed of 30, 40, 50, and 60 respectively?
Edit: edited for clarity.
Re your second question: the two disks would confer for a moment, tip you off and then assume the correct distances. Or if they did stay stable, they'd set off in some direction at their nominal top speed, probably keeping your body on the far side from the leading disk.
But otherwise, it's yet another one of the classic spells that's been around for 30 years without ever being cleaned up. Just house rule it and move on. It's not going to break anything. I suggest 30' + 5' per 2 levels.
Re your second question: the two disks would confer for a moment, tip you off and then assume the correct distances. Or if they did stay stable, they'd set off in some direction at their nominal top speed, probably keeping your body on the far side from the leading disk.
But otherwise, it's yet another one of the classic spells that's been around for 30 years without ever being cleaned up. Just house rule it and move on. It's not going to break anything. I suggest 30' + 5' per 2 levels.
It's not a major issue at all. Just something that came up in game and I wanted to see what the communities consensus is. As much as we can be concise about anything I mean.
Dot
I think it is unclear from the wording whether the Disk will follow you at the speed of a single move or at the speed of a double move. An even tougher question might be what "normal speed" is. Does that mean your speed before any magical adjustments or other bonuses, or does it just mean normal as in you're not running? If the latter then the Disk might be able to keep up with a Barbarian who double moves 80' but not an encumbered halfling who runs 45'.
I think you're trying to move the Disks by commanding Disk1 to move relative to Disk2 and then commanding Disk2 to move relative to you. I'm not sure if the Disk obey such ongoing commands or can be told to track on creatures or objects other than you. My understanding is that the disk follows/accompanies you and you can just set the distance. It seems possibly that you can set the direction too. It might be interesting if the Disk could be instructed to say 5 feet in front of you and maybe carry a barrier of some sort which grants you cover.
I still think the best way to move a Disk with you on it is to have another PC or familiar be the caster of the Disk, possibly via wand. If the Disk can only accompany you at the speed of a single move you'd want to make sure the familiar is very fast. A faerie dragon can fly at 60', but I wouldn't be shocked if some DMs questioned whehter a Fly speed is a "normal" speed. I think "normal" would be kind of relative. What if an Awakened dolphin cast the spell? The only movement mode it has is Swim 80. Could the Disk move at 80 feet per round, 160 feet per round, or not at all?
The spell says that it follows you "unless otherwise directed." I see no reason why you couldn't give it rudementary simple commands. "Stay to my left." Any combination of distance and location within spell limits is a reasonable use if the spell.
The spell states it only hovers above the ground. So it never gets fly or swim speeds. Though I don't see why it couldn't follow creatures flying or swimming within 3feet of the ground. But if the move far enough away from the disk laterally it could wink out.
I'm pretty sure 'normal speed' means that you'll outpace it if you begin double-moving away. However, I'm not sure if normal speed includes or excludes bonuses like Fast Movement, or temporary speed enhancements.
Not a critical issue, though. Honestly, I've never seen anybody take floating disk.
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As long as you are moving along or near the ground the disks stay within 5 ft. of you unless directed otherwise. If you move out of range by say flying or falling it winks out of existence. My understanding is that most of the confusing language was put in to prevent people from riding their own disk or using the disks to cross pits, etc. As long as you are just moving on the ground the disk stays with you or near you per direction.
Upon closer inspection, the spell description specifically says that the Disk "follows you about". It doesn't say that it goes where you tell it to. I think you could command the Disk to follow you at a greater distance, but I'll admit that's a little unclear. I guess the most conservative ruling would be that the Disk can be commanded to follow at 5 feet or to stop following, nothing more. If being very conservative I'd also say that the Disk can only move at your Speed, as if you took a single move action to move. To clarify a point, when I talk about riding Floating Disk I specifically mean riding another caster's Floating Disk. I don't see a RAW or probably RAI problem with that.
I mentioned the dolphin as an example because it doesn't have a land movement rate which somebody could refer to as its "normal" speed. Based on experience in older editions, I thought the Disk could float above other surfaces such as water, but it doesn't actually say that. I guess a dolphin swimming in 2 feet of water could still use the spell though unless "normal speed" really means land speed.
From this conversation I'm gathering that floating disk is very vague and DM's interpret it very differently. So I suppose the real answer is "Ask your DM."
Thanks all.
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Lets say my base speed is 30. I cast floating disk. After directing it to stay 1 foot away I move 30 feet. Clearly it can keep up.
However, if I double move in consecutive rounds can it keep up? (effectively moving 60 feet in a full round.)
Lets say I have a level barbarian. My base speed is now 40. Same questions.
Ok, my base speed is 30, but I take fleet four times. My base speed is not 50. Same questions.
Now I'm a high level monk with a base movement of 60. How fast can the disk move?
The spell says "normal speed" not "base speed" and you can use the disc outside of combat. So it doesn't have anything to do with move actions in combat, which are just a way of breaking down movement to manageable increments at the "tactical scale".
There are three movement scales, as follows:Tactical, for combat, measured in feet (or 5-foot squares) per round.
Local, for exploring an area, measured in feet per minute.
Overland, for getting from place to place, measured in miles per hour or miles per day.Modes of Movement: While moving at the different movement scales, creatures generally walk, hustle, or run.
...*descriptions of what constitutes walking, hustling, and running*...
...*some charts*...
..."Tactical movement is used for combat. Characters generally don't walk during combat, for obvious reasons—they hustle or run instead. A character who moves his speed and takes some action is hustling for about half the round and doing something else the other half."
So whether or not you are taking a single move action or a double move action only really matters for the purposes of keeping track of your actions in combat (where everything is micromanaged down to 6 second rounds). You're moving "normally" in both cases (which is technically a series of hustles and/or short sprints). "Normal" could be feet per round, feet per minute, or miles per hour/day depending on the movement scale you are currently operating at (although you could run into duration problems if you're traveling overland with a floating disc).
If you're a monk or barbarian and you inherently move faster than most other people then you're still moving "normally". Normal for you is just better than average. If you're a halfling and you move slower than you're still moving "normally", your normal is just slower than average. It doesn't matter if you're walking, hustling, running, swimming, or what-have-you. If you start climbing then you'll run into trouble since the disc wants to stay within 5 feet of you but can't go higher than ~3 feet. You'd have to order it to stay put (or at least stay put at its current elevation) and then stay within close range of it while you move around.
The spot where things get into a grey area is when you start using magic to enhance your movement. It obviously can't catch up to you if you're using things like teleport or dimension door to rapidly travel long distances, and I suppose you'd also run into the same problems if you started flying as you would climbing.
The big DM call would probably come in with things like "expeditious retreat" and other magical enhancements to your normal movement speed. Can you "outpace" the disc if you are magically making yourself move faster than "normal"?
If the DM wants to be more restrictive then you'd count magical enhancements and the like as non-normal movement and you'd risk losing the disc if you don't slow down. If the DM wants to be less restrictive then you could limit "non-normal" movement to things like teleport and dimensional door.
Personally, I don't think that floating disc is so powerful that it needs to be restricted too much, but your DM my vary.
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Also, for sake of argument in the above examples lets say I cast it twice. I sit on one and direct it to follow 2 feet from the other disk. I then direct the other disk to stay 5 feet away from me at all times.
Disregarding possible steering issues for the moment, how fast would the two disks travel with a caster's base speed of 30, 40, 50, and 60 respectively?
Edit: edited for clarity.
This would make an interesting basis for a car in a high magic campaign. All you would need is a steering mechanism for the front disk.
I would put it at any non-temporary speed. You do expeditious retreat, haste, fly, etc, those would cause you to move faster than the disc (unless you purposely didn't) and lose range. Walking/hustle/sprint it can keep up with you fine.
The fact that the Disk always stays level and can be used to transport liquids despite being rather shallow implies a very smooth ride to me. Besides being a great place to relax during travel, the Disk might make a decent platform for mobile archery or spellcasting. I was also thinking that it might be a convenient way to transport a crab or octopus familiar or companion since the Disk can hold some water to help keep the creature moist.
Ughbash - Would you agree that another character who isn't the caster can sit or stand on the Floating Disk and be carried along?
I always assumed 'normal' meant base speed for a medium creature.
The trick with two floating disks following each other is hilarious and I might use that to mess with my DM next chance I get. You could use mage hand to steer the front disk.
...Stopping might be problematic.
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For at least 30 years I've ruled that it simply follows you at whatever velocity as long as you're on or near the ground. It is a disk of force with nothing to impede it's progress, but it does follow you, so you can't ride on it, although other characters may do so within weight limitations, of course. It is dependent on height above ground and it's position relative to the caster - nothing else. In the absence of any definition of what constitutes an abnormal speed, any speed you might achieve is normal by default. As Aberrant Templar correctly notes, this can only matter in a combat situation. I believe that being more restrictive on it's speed limitations is an unnecessary complication to running the game.
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Also, for sake of argument in the above examples lets say I cast it twice. I sit on one and direct it to follow 2 feet from the other disk. I then direct the other disk to stay 5 feet away from me at all times.
Disregarding possible steering issues for the moment, how fast would the two disks travel with a caster's base speed of 30, 40, 50, and 60 respectively?
There's really no answer to this question and it would be entirely a DM thing. Mostly because the disc doesn't have its own movement speed.
Personally, I don't see how the caster's base speed would be involved, since the caster isn't moving. They're sitting on a disc. So the first disc would move away and the second disc would follow, but neither disc would be moving at the speed of the (sitting) caster.
So the DM call answer would be "how fast does a floating disc move when ordered to move independently from the caster"?
If this were to happen at my table, I'd say that your floating disc car would move 5' round. Each round the one disc would effectively make a 5 foot step away from the caster (to stay 5 feet away), which would result in the second disc moving 3 feet forward. On the next round the same thing would happen.
Floating disc is a 1st level spell. While I appreciate people using utility spells in clever ways, I don't think it's appropriate to the power level of the spell to use it for hours worth of rapid levitating transportation.
5 feet every 6 seconds works out to 50 feet a minute, which is 3,000 feet in a hour. Which is just about two-thirds of a mile in a hour. Not very useful for overland movement, but possibly useful as a clever tactic in some tactical situations.
TCG's idea is fun like some kind of perpetual motion machine, but based on what's in the rules I don't think that you can order a Floating Disk to maintain a certain distance or position relative to objects or creatures other than the ground and the caster.
Pretty sure the direct otherwise command is limited to "stay". If you sit on the thing it doesnt move, at least that has been the interpretation since I was a noob over 20 years ago. Basically if its moving it has to "follow" at which point it maintains its 5 foot spacing, though within that spacing you can have it in front, behind, along side whatever.
I would agree thought that if you find a way to run fast yourself, you could load up your party on the thing and have it keep pace behind.
The lesson I'm taking away from this is that it's widely open to DM interpretation. Im seeing a lot of valid opinions and suggestions, but bottom line is that it's a really vaguely worded spell. I'd like the devs to make an official ruling, but its a low priority.
It's like I'm in a bizarro universe where people don't call every obscure rule a crisis scenario.
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The lesson I'm taking away from this is that it's widely open to DM interpretation. Im seeing a lot of valid opinions and suggestions, but bottom line is that it's a really vaguely worded spell. I'd like the devs to make an official ruling, but its a low priority.
I don't know that I'd use "widely open". I mean, it's only a 1st level spell and most of what it does is pretty clear. I think the "big" questions revolve around this part:
If not otherwise directed...
Specifically the limitations of how you can direct it, and how fast does a disc move on its own if, for example, you stand still and tell it to back off.
How smart is the disc when you "direct it otherwise". Can you just say "move back 5 feet" and it will be able to perceive/accurately judge that distance? Can you give it persistent commands "always stay 5 feet ahead of me"? Can it actually move ahead of you, or can it only follow you?
What with it being a 1st level spell I'd personally lean heavily toward the "very simple commands that require constant attention if you want it to do anything other than follow you at ~5 ft." But yeah, there's some grey area and DMs may vary.
Thanks to Aberant, I am now picturing a floating disk version of Tony Starks helper bot from the Iron Man movies....
Seriously I dont think its smart at all...you move it around mentally or whatever, but you dont tell it to heel like its a puppy.