Considering my dad (who was only about 35 at the time) couldn't understand the difference between an Xbox and a Gamecube back when they were fairly new-ish, and I've heard of many others with similar experiences, I don't think I'm all that far off the mark.
Scott, I assumed you were in your 30s.
Nope, firmly in my 20's.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Thus the "(maybe)" I couched in there.Making assumptions, aren't you :D I only said I received a link, not that I used it.Scott's counter would be that the link is mostly likely a virus, for which no one has developed software to detect, isolate or remove from your PC.No, my counter would be that Benchak was passed a hand-written hyperlink by someone who was comfortable with torrents, and he was comfortable with torrents, and thus the whole thing (maybe) worked out nicely.
But, to other people, the idea of torrenting is unfamiliar, scary, or too technical to bother with. The entire generation of my own family above my own, for example, wouldn't have the first clue how to pirate a television show, but all of them are comfortable and familiar with Netflix/Amazon/Hulu.
The "(maybe)" came after the "thus," though, so it read rather like you were assuming I was comfortable torrenting.
The "(maybe)" came after the "thus," though, so it read rather like you were assuming I was comfortable torrenting.Thus the "(maybe)" I couched in there.Making assumptions, aren't you :D I only said I received a link, not that I used it.Scott's counter would be that the link is mostly likely a virus, for which no one has developed software to detect, isolate or remove from your PC.No, my counter would be that Benchak was passed a hand-written hyperlink by someone who was comfortable with torrents, and he was comfortable with torrents, and thus the whole thing (maybe) worked out nicely.
But, to other people, the idea of torrenting is unfamiliar, scary, or too technical to bother with. The entire generation of my own family above my own, for example, wouldn't have the first clue how to pirate a television show, but all of them are comfortable and familiar with Netflix/Amazon/Hulu.
Sorry, I just sort of threw it in haphazardly. I was purposefully trying to avoid insinuating that you were doing anything illegal though.
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Torrenting itself is not illegal.
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Good lord what?A company does not have the right to control their public image.Oh good lord.A company absolutely has the right to try and control their public image.
I am having a really hard time believing some of the things that are being said in an attempt to justify the insane levels of hate in this thread.
No, they can try to influence it. No one has the right to control it.
It's like if i did something horribly stupid at a party and proceeded to kill people who saw me do it instead of explaining why i did it.I don't hate, honestly. I am just horrified at poor business decisions a major corporation filled with (i believe) highly intelligent people can make.
And they just lost a potential customer in me.
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Scott, I assumed you were in your 30s.Nope, firmly in my 20's.
The point he was trying to make (or should have been if he wasn't) is that in the last 30 years we have had multiple domininant consoles go away when they misplayed the market.
Atari was the console. Gone.
Nintendo was the console. Almost gone, saved by the Wii, not doing well now.
XBox is about on par with Playstation, and neither of them have a particularly secure market going forward. Both are functionally gaming PC's running very similar OS in order to make sure they are available to as many publishers as possible, who most of which are already also publishing for the PC.
So if someone comes along with a functional gaming PC that you can play on your TV, at the right price point...
Oh wait...
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Nintendo was the console. Almost gone, saved by the Wii, not doing well now.
They've never been "almost gone". Even in the lean times, the strength of their exclusive games and their utter dominance of the handheld market has kept them far far away from "almost gone". They're also the only company that actually sells their consoles for a profit throughout the generation, instead of only at the very end of a generation.
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Nintendo was the console. Almost gone, saved by the Wii, not doing well now.They've never been "almost gone". Even in the lean times, the strength of their exclusive games and their utter dominance of the handheld market has kept them far far away from "almost gone". They're also the only company that actually sells their consoles for a profit throughout the generation, instead of only at the very end of a generation.
They went from "The" console to a distant 3rd.
In the late 80's through the mid 90's, every other console was secondary. Sega was there, but way in the rearview.
I'm pretty happy with my Wii.
I hardly ever play it, though, except for when I want to play old school fighting games like Samurai Showdown or Street Fighter.
I 99% game on my PC. I'm primarily an MMO player.
I was close to making the decision to get an Xbox, as alot of my co-workers play on them, but was going to wait for the next one.
Now, because of the concerns raised here and the limited time I would actually play it, I think I'll use that 500 for a new video card instead.
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The Jimquisition had some interesting thoughts on it.
(Video's entitled Xbox One out of Ten and When the Starscreams Kill Used Games and Why An Always-On DRM Console Would Be Dumb Dumb Dumb)
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I'm pretty happy with my Wii.
I hardly ever play it, though, except for when I want to play old school fighting games like Samurai Showdown or Street Fighter.I 99% game on my PC. I'm primarily an MMO player.
I was close to making the decision to get an Xbox, as alot of my co-workers play on them, but was going to wait for the next one.Now, because of the concerns raised here and the limited time I would actually play it, I think I'll use that 500 for a new video card instead.
I love my Wii. My friends and I spent friday night playing MarioKart on a projector.
And, it costs a lot less to buy a Wii than an Xbox and you don't have to pay an additional fee to run Netflix through your Wii. Wii has a niche. Wii U...we'll see, but it isn't off to a great start.
I bought the XBox much later in large part because the person we rent a room out to has one and he sold me on it, and because it was on sale at a very reasonable price point.
I have a combined family income in the 6 digits, but I'm still not dropping 500 bucks on a console that is going to be milking me for fees.
For not much more can just hook up a pretty decent gaming PC to my TV which can do more gaming based things, better. And given how many TV's are coming with connectors that make this easy...others will too.
XBox is trying to slide into a market that is being created, based on streaming video combining with gaming. Others can fill that market cheaper, at this point, without creating things that will annoy the customer base.
This was the roll-out. We are all supposed to be excited and clamoring to get one.
Fail.
Thanks Kevin that video was enlightening.
I learn more about a product by listening to the criticism of a product than I do by listening to it's fanboys. This is the new market place. When I want to buy something I look for all the negative things people are saying about it. This is why I ended up with a lot of the things I bought. Because the negative things said about it were not huge drawbacks in my experience while the drawbacks of the competition were bigger headaches in my point of view. It doesn't really surprise me that Mircosoft wants to control the way we entertain ourselves, they have been pushing for countless years to control that. I hope they never succeed because it will drive me out of the console market. The thing that annoys me the most about this new console is that it will require me to always have it connect online in order to use it. I am not an owner of a previous xbox so I don't really care about older games on it. If they wanted to win me over they needed to make my experience better not filled with more hassles than my current console. I am happy with my PS3 and won't even get a PS4 till I absolutely have to... why because in THAT case I want to keep playing my older games. When forced to upgrade I might not stay loyal to Sony... but so far nobody has stepped forward to try to win my business. All I hear are companies trying to force me to pay more for less... Hopefully a good contender will step into the ring with an honest attempt to do right by it's customers. Sadly, until then I guess I have to find the lesser of the evils when shopping.
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The Jimquisition had some interesting thoughts on it.
(Video's entitled Xbox One out of Ten and When the Starscreams Kill Used Games and Why An Always-On DRM Console Would Be Dumb Dumb Dumb)
Cheers for that
Matthew Khoelbl for the win!
That's basically most things I wanted to say but couldn't come up with the words for.
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If this is true, i'm so glad that i invest in a gaming PC.PC gaming FTW, but we've had to put up with not being able to resell games or pick up used ones for almost ten years. There's the new EU law forcing Valve to let Steam users resell games, but that's not been fully enacted yet.
Valve has won every lawsuit over their DRM, check in, and no resell policy. Repeat Valve has won every single lawsuit around this issue convincingly. The last attempt was completely dismissed in Valve's favor.
If you want to know the truth, there are numerous reasons why the odds overwhelming favor Valve winning again despite the additions to the law. You should read what you agree to again in the Steam Terms of Service.
Funny enough, I have a ton of games attached to my Steam service account, but I know exactly what I agreed to. My service orders for PC games actually goes GOG then Steam then Origin. These three plus Blizzard are the only services that I have on my PC.
Personally, I'm excited for the Xbox One. None of the points of the naysayers seem all that big a deal to me. Now the truly impossible task? Convincing my wife that it's a good idea for me to own one. *sigh*
27% of all Xbox 360's do not have access to a broadband connection.
27% of all Xbox 360's do not have access to a broadband connection.
Source? Some context is needed to understand the importance of that figure. If it does indeed mean that, currently, 27% of households with Xbox 360s do not have access to broadband internet, then that's a big deal.
But if that figure is a few years old, or only means that the 360 isn't connected, etc., it's less important.
Nintendo was the console. Almost gone, saved by the Wii, not doing well now.They've never been "almost gone". Even in the lean times, the strength of their exclusive games and their utter dominance of the handheld market has kept them far far away from "almost gone". They're also the only company that actually sells their consoles for a profit throughout the generation, instead of only at the very end of a generation.They went from "The" console to a distant 3rd.
In the late 80's through the mid 90's, every other console was secondary. Sega was there, but way in the rearview.
The Wii outsold both other consoles by about 20% and each console sold produced more profit than any sale from either of its competitors. That is without their 1st party game sales giving them huge proffits. Nintendo hands down won this generation of consoles, and to say otherwise is to be obviously ignorant of the market.
The Wii outsold both other consoles by about 20% and each console sold produced more profit than any sale from either of its competitors. That is without their 1st party game sales giving them huge proffits. Nintendo hands down won this generation of consoles, and to say otherwise is to be obviously ignorant of the market.Nintendo was the console. Almost gone, saved by the Wii, not doing well now.They've never been "almost gone". Even in the lean times, the strength of their exclusive games and their utter dominance of the handheld market has kept them far far away from "almost gone". They're also the only company that actually sells their consoles for a profit throughout the generation, instead of only at the very end of a generation.They went from "The" console to a distant 3rd.
In the late 80's through the mid 90's, every other console was secondary. Sega was there, but way in the rearview.
Let's not forget their brutal domination of the dedicated handheld gaming market.
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Let's not forget their brutal domination of the dedicated handheld gaming market.The Wii outsold both other consoles by about 20% and each console sold produced more profit than any sale from either of its competitors. That is without their 1st party game sales giving them huge proffits. Nintendo hands down won this generation of consoles, and to say otherwise is to be obviously ignorant of the market.Nintendo was the console. Almost gone, saved by the Wii, not doing well now.They've never been "almost gone". Even in the lean times, the strength of their exclusive games and their utter dominance of the handheld market has kept them far far away from "almost gone". They're also the only company that actually sells their consoles for a profit throughout the generation, instead of only at the very end of a generation.They went from "The" console to a distant 3rd.
In the late 80's through the mid 90's, every other console was secondary. Sega was there, but way in the rearview.
Couple this with Nintendo's "evergreen" titles that out sell everything under the sun beside CoD. Nintendo won this generation going away. I would not even count Nintendo out for the next one with Zelda, Donkey Kong, Mario, etc all available for games.
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27% of all Xbox 360's do not have access to a broadband connection.Source? Some context is needed to understand the importance of that figure. If it does indeed mean that, currently, 27% of households with Xbox 360s do not have access to broadband internet, then that's a big deal.
But if that figure is a few years old, or only means that the 360 isn't connected, etc., it's less important.
You make a lot of claims without providing sources. Why am I held to a higher standard?
The figure is from 2010, but without a more recent figure, it is still relevant, because that's the info we have. PS3 leads with 78% connected and the Wii trails with 54%. You would need to show some sort of very significant change that would alter it in a statistically significant fashion.
Though interestingly, the Wii sold more units, the connected number would be around 54 million, while Xbox's connected number would be 56 million. PS3 would have around 60 million.
Microsoft is going to exclude about 20 million of their current customers with requiring a broadband connection.
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The Wii also outsold both consoles even though it had a lower grade of hardware and fewer technical features.
You make a lot of claims without providing sources. Why am I held to a higher standard?27% of all Xbox 360's do not have access to a broadband connection.Source? Some context is needed to understand the importance of that figure. If it does indeed mean that, currently, 27% of households with Xbox 360s do not have access to broadband internet, then that's a big deal.
But if that figure is a few years old, or only means that the 360 isn't connected, etc., it's less important.
YOU DON'T NEED SOURCES WHEN YOU HAVE THE TRUTH!
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Hey Scott, could you please respond to Matthew Koelbl's last post? I thought he brought up some interesting points, and I was looking forward to seeing your response to him, but it seems like you've skipped him (if you're taking your time to respond in-depth, I apologize)
Not trying to pick on you here, I'm just digging seeing this conversation flesh out.
You make a lot of claims without providing sources. Why am I held to a higher standard?
You're not. If I'm asked for a source for a figure I cite, I will provide it. I usually make a concerted effort to provide context for my figures so that people don't need to decipher the source on their own, though.
The figure is from 2010, but without a more recent figure, it is still relevant, because that's the info we have. PS3 leads with 78% connected and the Wii trails with 54%. You would need to show some sort of very significant change that would alter it in a statistically significant fashion.
Though interestingly, the Wii sold more units, the connected number would be around 54 million, while Xbox's connected number would be 56 million. PS3 would have around 60 million.
Microsoft is going to exclude about 20 million of their current customers with requiring a broadband connection.
Right, again, is that consoles that are in houses that do not have access to broadband internet, or is that consoles that are simply not connected to broadband internet?
That's a really important distinction.
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Hey Scott, could you please respond to Matthew Koelbl's last post? I thought he brought up some interesting points, and I was looking forward to seeing your response to him, but it seems like you've skipped him (if you're taking your time to respond in-depth, I apologize)
Not trying to pick on you here, I'm just digging seeing this conversation flesh out.
The problem with Matthew Koelbl is that he's generally correct about everything, and keeps a much leveler head than I do.
I disagree that there are no advantages to an always-connected or always-watching system (in this case, these are advantages on the developers' side) but without any concrete examples of games in development taking advantage of those things (largely due to the fact that we haven't gotten through E3 yet), it's hard to make a compelling argument.
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Hey Scott, could you please respond to Matthew Koelbl's last post? I thought he brought up some interesting points, and I was looking forward to seeing your response to him, but it seems like you've skipped him (if you're taking your time to respond in-depth, I apologize)
Not trying to pick on you here, I'm just digging seeing this conversation flesh out.
The problem with Matthew Koelbl is that he's generally correct about everything, and keeps a much leveler head than I do.
I disagree that there are no advantages to an always-connected or always-watching system (in this case, these are advantages on the developers' side) but without any concrete examples of games in development taking advantage of those things (largely due to the fact that we haven't gotten through E3 yet), it's hard to make a compelling argument.
DING DING DING!
And that is why people have a problem with it.
You make a lot of claims without providing sources. Why am I held to a higher standard?You're not. If I'm asked for a source for a figure I cite, I will provide it. I usually make a concerted effort to provide context for my figures so that people don't need to decipher the source on their own, though.
The figure is from 2010, but without a more recent figure, it is still relevant, because that's the info we have. PS3 leads with 78% connected and the Wii trails with 54%. You would need to show some sort of very significant change that would alter it in a statistically significant fashion.
Though interestingly, the Wii sold more units, the connected number would be around 54 million, while Xbox's connected number would be 56 million. PS3 would have around 60 million.
Microsoft is going to exclude about 20 million of their current customers with requiring a broadband connection.
Right, again, is that consoles that are in houses that do not have access to broadband internet, or is that consoles that are simply not connected to broadband internet?
That's a really important distinction.
It doesn't matter.
1) people without access: they are being firmly excluded by a required broadband connection.
2) people with access: for whatever reason, xbox live is a service they are not interested in. Microsoft is now giving them an ultimatum of requiring them to buy the service. Every person who doesn't want to use xbox live will be excluded.
Right now that is 20 million console owners. If Microsoft is hurting for cash flow, enough they have to find ways to tap into the secondary market, how will reducing their market by 20 million customers help them?
They're grabbing for money, like a guy opening a carton of OJ on a juicer info-mercial.
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I'm not opposed to having the option of an always-connected device. I'm opposed to the requirement of it. That's the rub.
For example, I have anti-virus software on my PC. I have turned on the option for it to connect to their servers and check for updates automatically. Even if my PC were offline, I can still run the software to check my computer, clean it or scan a file.
I can do the same thing with my phone. I can tell it to always check for updates, only check for updates when I'm on wi-fi, or to never check for updates. I get to control my phones behavior and data usage, which is important because that can cost me money.
Option vs. requirement.
Always connected can be a very cool option. It's a very bad requirement though.
TV? (I'm late to this conversation.)
TV? (I'm late to this conversation.)
The TV features are not a deal breaker, but I don't like how the OS that runs them uses up 3gigs of RAM.
I have a TV, but I have no intention of getting basic or premium cable. So these features give me options, even if I don't like those options, I'm not required to use them.
Also, Xbone has 8gb of DDR3 while Sony 4 has 8 gigs of DDR5.
As long as there's dancing.
Possible advantages to an always-connected device:
-auto-updates
-instant integration (no logon required) to the online services (like Xbox live)I can't think of anymore right now.
Auto-updates are not necessarily an advantage. There are games I do not want to update on my 360 right now, because they alter playability in ways that aren't necessarily good.
The Wii outsold both other consoles by about 20% and each console sold produced more profit than any sale from either of its competitors. That is without their 1st party game sales giving them huge proffits. Nintendo hands down won this generation of consoles, and to say otherwise is to be obviously ignorant of the market.
What about where the real money is - games sold and licenses?
Nintendo, despite "winning the console war" ran into significant financial difficulties for a few years after it sold all those Wiis (i.e. when it wasn't selling anything more) because no one bought Wii games. In the years that it was supposed to be raking it in due to game sales and related license/royalty revenues, Nintendo instead experienced the opposite - financial problems instead of benefits. What happened with the Wii is that it turns out all those moms and grandmas bought the Wii, played Wii Sports for a bit, and then let them collect dust.
This has been widely reported - see IGN among others.
So, while the Wii may have "won the console war", I'm not sure Nintendo "won" it the way they wanted to...
Game support killed the wii imho, the same seems to be happening with the wii U. Some sites think they are on their last leg (console –wise not handheld). IIIRC, some developers said some negative things about the wii U as well.
Nintendo at this point is a system for preteens (game-wise) and to a lighter extent, older folks, and some aerobics nuts. I think the shiny has worn off the gimmicky controllers.