I'm in a bind, I'm wanting to make an NPC that is very clever and wise, but doesn't use much, if at all any magic to deal with numerous problems and situations. Things that take a bit of thought, that would make the players go "huh, that's a really good idea". My goal is to introduce this character at the start and have him perform all of these clever tactics and ideas in hopes that the PCs actually start to think through a situation and not just rely on attacking with brute force or using spells. After I feel they don't just charge into a situation, I'd have the NPC leave due to some issue. A few examples of what I'm trying to go for would be these;
The party encounters a slime/blob/jelly ect. The NPC would think to use a bar of soap and cover the tip of an arrow with it before shooting it to break the surface tension, dealing more damage.
There's a Dragon that attacks a town every so often, yet no one can seem to best it. Well, the NPC decides to do a little research an sees if he can't find it's eating habits. Perhaps farm life of some kind. Once the NPC knows what the dragon likes to eat, he would make a toxin against the dragon and apply it to the feed of the animals, thus eventually making the dragon weaker and able to bested.
Honestly, I can't think of too many off the top of my head, and was wondering if any of you had some interesting ideas to add.
Thanks
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the north they use to kill polar bears by sharpening a seal floating rib at both ends and bending it, freezig it inside a ball of blood and fat, they would leave that out and the bear would find the treat and eat it, they track the bear until the injury from the melted ball spring spike opened in its belly and it bled to death internally. no spells, no special weapons, a knife and an animal with soft ribs is all you need for that one. could work on large critters of any predatory quick eating type.
the north they use to kill polar bears by sharpening a seal floating rib at both ends and bending it, freezig it inside a ball of blood and fat, they would leave that out and the bear would find the treat and eat it, they track the bear until the injury from the melted ball spring spike opened in its belly and it bled to death internally. no spells, no special weapons, a knife and an animal with soft ribs is all you need for that one. could work on large critters of any predatory quick eating type.
Perfect. That's exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. Thank you! I'll definitely incorporate that one somehow. I don't know if it counts, but that reminds me of something my friend did someone else's home game; there were these colossal worm-like creatures in the desert called "camp eaters". Well, appearently they didn't have any intelligence. Or wry low, so my friend thought to deal bleed damage to it, and since the creature wasnt intelligent, it jus kept bleeding till it died out. The DM was upset he figured a loophole around it, but I reward my players for thinking outside the box. I enjoy those moments.
What about simply hiding behind corners with rope slack across the room, ans standing back looking like an easy target for some tripable monsters?
Hmm..that would work too, though I'm trying to figure out how to take down more monsters that have a higher intelligence, or situations more complex.
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I agree that it's generally a bad idea to make a DMPC that outshines the PCs. Players tend to dislike that for some reason.
What you need is a recurring bad guy/rival. Someone the players (and the PCs) love to hate. Yes, what you need is Tucker's Kobolds. Okay, so not really the kobolds, but the idea behind them. I think a ranger/rogue would work, but it would be so much better if it was nothing more than a first level commoner. (Expert would be more viable, though.) He might get some help every now and then from his friends, but mostly he should rely on his own skills. Craft (Trap setting) is a good choice. Using Knowledge to send the PCs into the territory of a dangerous creature (unknowingly and unprepared) is also a good choice.
But you could also just have all the NPCs react in a way that would be natural to them. One of my players decided to investigate the rooms of some NPCs during a gambling tournament. He found out that one of them was an assassin and figured it should be the dwarf, so he left a note in dwarven for the assassin. Ofcourse it wasn't the dwarf. You should have seen the look on his face when I told him that the dwarf was murdered the following night.
The point is that sometimes players forget that there are consequences to their actions. It's your job to remind them in the most painful way.
Rogues live by their wits, so a High INT Rogue would be fine. Something like Da Vinci from Da Vinci's demons perhaps.
Even tanglefoot bags can cause mayhem if used intelligently. And there are any number of ways of using simple incendiary devices to control the battlefield: Most creatures (and players) will try to avoid a pool of burning oil or acid. Giving him alchemical weapons to play with and he can play battlefield control without resorting to spells.
Then there's the environment. In a city there will be all sorts of barrels around full of interesting substances. Lime blowing in the wind will cause blindness, Lye (IIRC used for curing hides, so any leatherworkers stall will have a vat of it) is highly caustic, Hot coals might be placed in a barrel on a cold day to keep people warm, etc. It's not all about what you carry with you.
Rogues can even get lower level spells if they want them. Grease is handy, SMI provides a combination distraction/Flank buddy/Scout (to test if there is a trap there...doesn't matter if it dies).
High INT Rogues get a huge amount of skills. load up on knowledge skills and you would have no problem knowing about these things. Add Craft (Trapmaking) and Craft (Alchemy) and you can build your own equipment (Flash-bangs anyone?). In general, have fun.
The problem with stuff like the soap on the ooze is that clever players now have a leg up on people who tend to think more...mechanically, like myself. I'm not really clever in the game, I don't think. I don't know how soap deals with oozes. Suddenly, instead of feeling like a hero or whatever, I feel stupid that other players are coming up with all these clever solutions that I can't think of. that would be the worse kind of feeling while playing.
Now imagine the DM starts doing this. An NPC does something weird in combat that gives him a bonus, or lets him ignore DR (nothing comes to mind, because I'm not good at this). Suddenly, even if I have the best rules knowledge at the table, I feel in the dark about all these new options available, and why? Because I can't think quick on my feet, or because I don't know Chemistry. The player should not be subject to failure in the game because of the player's shortcomings in real life.
Now imagine a combat a session later - I want to do something clever to bypass some DR, but I can't really think of anything. So I say some random stuff (I tie together a weird alchemical substance to my sword that negates his fast healing), but I don't get the bonus because I'm not specific enough or it doesn't meet the DM's arbitrary standard of "clever enough" to qualify for an actual "trick", and I get boned. But maybe a few of the other players are getting the bonus. Now what am I supposed to think? Is the DM showing favoritism, or am I just stupid?
I think it creates a million potential problems for very little gain. There are ways around DR. The DR is there for a reason. Letting characters who were not meant to bypass it able to because of an arbitrary decision (completely mundane medieval-style soap can defeat a magical creatures's ability to completely shrug off wounds), seems to be a really big hassle. Direct communication about what you want would seem to be better. If the players don't want it, then you should either adjust to them or decline to run the game if it's not fun.
As always, your table. If your players are good for it, by all means. But I would protest, and be quite vehement about it.
Hmm.. I guess when you put it that way, maybe it wouldn't be the wisest idea. In no way am I trying to to make the pcs look dumb, but then again I don't want them to just rush into things, I'd like for them to think a little before hand. Gavmania, I like your idea of just being good at controlling the battlefield and using knowledges to help with great setups for battle, while not making any complicated ideas the pcs couldn't do themselves. So I guess the best way to implement this, if I did have a NPC that was extremely clever and good with physics and chemistry, I'd have to make him a villain. Which would make the pcs hate him. Though even then, the pcs may feel like the villain is always one step ahead of them, in a bad way and not fun. Ugh, apparently it's not so easy to include a character like this into the game. I'd really like to, especially to hit home that he's very intelligent, though I guess I'm going about it the wrong way?
I may have been a little over the top, though most of my points are valid. If you want them to think, give them an NPC villain that always seems to be one step ahead of them.
Try something like this - a murder mystery. But there is no mystery - the killer just seems to be a step ahead of the PCs.
So the situation is - the PCs are roaming the town one night (or day), and some across a body. A cursory look of the area reveals a frightened woman nearby. She saw the murderer, and knows who he is too. She reveals his name, occupation, and where he lives. Your players would almost certainly go there to confront him, only to find him not home. A search of the house reveals a note saying he intends to go see Olaf the Blacksmith today.
The PCs go, only to find that Olaf will not co-operate, even under threat of force. They must search the Blacksmith's workplace to find the next clue, or maybe he will tell them on a successful diplomacy or intimidate check. And so on.
Eventually, the PCs must put together a few clues found at each location they have been at and put them together to figure out where this guy is. Now they have to think, or else the killer gets away.
Use this guide to help you put together a mystery adventure: It's Super.
I hope you can pull it off. Remember that your fun is important, too. If you aren't happy, something should change.
I'm in a bind, I'm wanting to make an NPC that is very clever and wise, but doesn't use much, if at all any magic to deal with numerous problems and situations. Things that take a bit of thought, that would make the players go "huh, that's a really good idea".
Problem is, non-magical solutions tend to NOT WORK in this fantasy setting/system. Most "clever tricks" will do something like 1d3 damage, or temporarily trip, entangle or dazzle an opponent - which does NOT solve the problem. It works in scooby-doo, because everybody is a frightened civilian, not a hardened killer.
The party encounters a slime/blob/jelly ect. The NPC would think to use a bar of soap and cover the tip of an arrow with it before shooting it to break the surface tension, dealing more damage.
Any ooze that could be handled with a bar of soap, could be handled by poking it with a stick.
If you're going to have stuff like this work, you should probably write a novella instead; either your NPC is a total Marty Stu, whose non-sensical actions work because of GM fiat, or you're going to start expecting this kind of solutions from your players, and THAT ends in pixel-b%%$*ing.
There's a Dragon that attacks a town every so often, yet no one can seem to best it. Well, the NPC decides to do a little research an sees if he can't find it's eating habits. Perhaps farm life of some kind. Once the NPC knows what the dragon likes to eat, he would make a toxin against the dragon and apply it to the feed of the animals, thus eventually making the dragon weaker and able to bested.
Leaving out poisoned prey as bait for a predator is a well-known stratagem. Two problems, however:
1) You can't kill a dragon with a poisoned meal, because poisons are BS in this system. If you're not a master alchemist with access to expensive, exotic reagents, you can barely inconvenience it.2) Second of all, dragons are intelligent, vengeful, and capable of doing far worse to a community than eat the occasional sheep or villager.
the north they use to kill polar bears by sharpening a seal floating rib at both ends and bending it, freezig it inside a ball of blood and fat, they would leave that out and the bear would find the treat and eat it, they track the bear until the injury from the melted ball spring spike opened in its belly and it bled to death internally. no spells, no special weapons, a knife and an animal with soft ribs is all you need for that one. could work on large critters of any predatory quick eating type.
This technique got a name?
There's basically two opposing views on the use of such clever tricks:
1. Clever tricks are really awesome and players deserve to be rewarded for coming up with ways to circumvent the mechanical rules.
2. Clever tricks break the mechanical rules if they're really effective, therefore they shouldn't be too effective.
Position 1 is really popular with the OSR crowd, position 2 tends to be more popular with 3.5/PF, and is a given with 4e. 4e just isn't the same game anymore if you allow effective tricks, which is why I don't like 4e, because I do like clever tricks.
On the other hand, tricks shouldn't be so universally effective as to become predictable. Every truly encounter-breaking trick should be unique. I'm also not sure if soap-tipped arrows would really be more effective against jellies and oozes (but look at the Alkali flask in the APG!).
The problem with stuff like the soap on the ooze is that clever players now have a leg up on people who tend to think more...mechanically, like myself. I'm not really clever in the game, I don't think. I don't know how soap deals with oozes. Suddenly, instead of feeling like a hero or whatever, I feel stupid that other players are coming up with all these clever solutions that I can't think of. that would be the worse kind of feeling while playing.
Now imagine the DM starts doing this. An NPC does something weird in combat that gives him a bonus, or lets him ignore DR (nothing comes to mind, because I'm not good at this). Suddenly, even if I have the best rules knowledge at the table, I feel in the dark about all these new options available, and why? Because I can't think quick on my feet, or because I don't know Chemistry. The player should not be subject to failure in the game because of the player's shortcomings in real life.
Now imagine a combat a session later - I want to do something clever to bypass some DR, but I can't really think of anything. So I say some random stuff (I tie together a weird alchemical substance to my sword that negates his fast healing), but I don't get the bonus because I'm not specific enough or it doesn't meet the DM's arbitrary standard of "clever enough" to qualify for an actual "trick", and I get boned. But maybe a few of the other players are getting the bonus. Now what am I supposed to think? Is the DM showing favoritism, or am I just stupid?
I think it creates a million potential problems for very little gain. There are ways around DR. The DR is there for a reason. Letting characters who were not meant to bypass it able to because of an arbitrary decision (completely mundane medieval-style soap can defeat a magical creatures's ability to completely shrug off wounds), seems to be a really big hassle. Direct communication about what you want would seem to be better. If the players don't want it, then you should either adjust to them or decline to run the game if...
The answer to this is to use skills. When faced with a creature, ask the DM "Do I recognise this creaure, and is there anything I know about it that will help me defeat it?" The GM will get you to roll your Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (or nature, or whatever) and if you make the roll reply "Yes, it's a troll. It has fast healing and can only be stopped by fire or acid". That wayYou aren't reliant on memorising the Bestiaries so as to figure out their weaknesses. Similarly, players who memorise the bestiaries and know this is a troll should not be allowed to suddenly start getting flasks of acid or fire out if they have no knowledge (dungeoneering).
Similarly a knowledge (local) or knowledge (engineering) can be used to know whats around in your environment. Knowing that Lye is an alkali can really save your bacon if you face an ooze and have no alkali flasks available. and what about knowing that the wall is weak about ready to topple...luring the PCs in front of it while a cohort pushes it on them will make them think twice about just running in all the time.
I like when my players come up with clever ways to use their character's skills and abilities. I usually award a bonus for ingenuity or just fiat a win. The key here is "character's skills and abilities."
If I have a player at the table who's great at biochemistry and knows a perfect plant-based toxin to feed to sheep that won't kill them but WILL kill a rampaging pack of worgs that's fantastic. However if the same player is running a universalist magic user that happened to take no ranks in either Knowledge: Nature or Craft: Alchemy, there's no way that character should pull this off.
I think that goes along with what Red Army is saying. The players should get kudos for using their characters, not using their own RL experience through these paper instruments. On the reverse, players should not be penalized for not getting into that AP Chem class in high school!
As for an NPC doing it...be subtle. Even if it is a villain, they should still be subtle. No point in showing up your PCs at every turn. Players are a notoriously moody bunch and this hobby is one rooted in childhood; some of us (myself included) pull a Peter Pan at the table and pretend we never grew up, so childish behavior is bound to follow...
Traps IMO are the best way to show a villains cleverness. Elaborate plots are fine but most players will barrel through them and not marvel at how long it took to craft. Unique challenges and situations like soapy oozes will be a momentary glimmer of frustration followed by a lot of attacks.
However when you've got your villain dead to rights and he takes an alchemical substance and hurls it in front of you on purpose not only cutting off your pursuit of him but also activating the doomsday device overhead, then you've got something.
Also, look for two-fers. A villain summoning a monster that seems innocuous only to have said monster be the one thing that can attract a bigger monster...that's fun. I had a bunch of mites who knew of giant carrion beetles in some sewers that they couldn't dominate, so first they dumped a bucketload of offal on the PCs and then used prestidigitation to waft the stench down a side passage. A couple rounds later 2 giant carrion beetles arrived and tore into the characters. I don't know if they were impressed or not, but my villains survived to pester them for another game session.
This game is less about the mechanics and defeating them, and more about the fragile emotions of the assembled participants. Whatever you feel will result in positive emotional response long term is probably a good tactic. People in general don't like being outfoxed, but they put up with it for the smug satisfaction of besting the fox later on. If they're constantly just behind the 8-ball, you may see a mutiny before long.
The answer to this is to use skills. When faced with a creature, ask the DM "Do I recognise this creaure, and is there anything I know about it that will help me defeat it?" The GM will get you to roll your Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (or nature, or whatever) and if you make the roll reply "Yes, it's a troll. It has fast healing and can only be stopped by fire or acid". That wayYou aren't reliant on memorising the Bestiaries so as to figure out their weaknesses. Similarly, players who memorise the bestiaries and know this is a troll should not be allowed to suddenly start getting flasks of acid or fire out if they have no knowledge (dungeoneering).
I almost completely agree here. I reward the use of knowledge skills with information about the monster in battle, and if they take some time to examine it afterward, then maybe they can get a bit more information. That's rewarding a player for his skills, which is different than the OP's situation, I believe.
Similarly a knowledge (local) or knowledge (engineering) can be used to know whats around in your environment. Knowing that Lye is an alkali can really save your bacon if you face an ooze and have no alkali flasks available. and what about knowing that the wall is weak about ready to topple...luring the PCs in front of it while a cohort pushes it on them will make them think twice about just running in all the time.
But I don't know that Lye is an Alkali. I mean really, I have never heard of that until just now. That's rewarding a player for his knowledge, not the character. A minor distinction, but a distinction. And the wall thing could be discerned with a quick architecture/engineering check. So again, you can reward their skills (fighter class skill too!), rather than if they heard a dozen particular words in your half-minute description of the room.