Time is one of the better mysteries, IMO.
Oracles are primary casters with a good spell list (not so much at 1st level, though), so they certainly aren't worthless. I do think, outside specific tricks and exploits unique to them (like Paragon Surge abuse), they're plainly inferior to Clerics, though. Being less good than one of the top 3 classes in the entire game isn't something to be ashamed of, though.
I have only limited experience in playing an oracle; in my case, I was specifically playing a Life oracle, and he actually seemed to be a somewhat more capable healer than clerics of an equivalent level (in my opinion, of course).
I will say that I'm not a fan of Dual-Cursed; I don't see the additional revelations and spells as sufficient balance for having an unimproving extra curse. Misfortune\Fortune are nice but honestly if I were going to go that route I'd probably just take a dip into the witch class for a couple of levels.
If you're looking for more specific feedback, try posting your basic build and maybe people can offer up suggestions.
What level are you? If you're focused more on casting than battle, then early levels really can make you feel like you have nothing to contribute once your small number of spells per day are used, but it gets much better later when you really have to try to burn all your slots.
Can we see your character sheet? That would be a great help.
I agree with Misfortune being well worth all the downsides of Dual Cursed. Negate crits, force rerolls for save or sucks, and stop yourself and friends from botching important rolls. What's not to love? I am wondering what level you are though still, just to get a feel for your issue.
The problem is that the Divine Spell list is "weak" for a caster character at early levels. Level 1 (and even 2) spells on the Cleric list are really designed for a buff up then wade into melee style. There's no solid control spells that affect more than one target--even the single target control doesn't last longer than a round.
That said, once you hit level 3 spells (and some level 2s), you'll be much better off and feel much more useful as a full time caster.
Misfortune is probably the single best thing you could do to feel helpful early on, but just wait and you'll have your time to shine.
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Just stick with it, Misfortune will make save or suck spells your bread and butter because characters essentially have to save twice against the spell. Once you get to fourth level, pick up a pick axe (doesn't matter that your not proficient) and the spell hold person Hold Person.
Round One: Hold Person as a standard, move to enemy.
Round Two: Coup de Grace
Round Three: ???
Round Four: Profit
Also, you should stay away from Extra Revelation from now on. Mysteries are good but you will get a lot more as a Dual Cursed Oracle, if you front load now your choice latter will be meh. Pick things like Abundant Revelation so you can use Erase from Time more often.
One last thing, your human FCB will be nice once you get to 4th level. That way you can start picking up spells that you really wanted but you needed to grab a more useful one, look in to situational and utility spells because if you use it correctly you will have pretty good versatility with your casting.
Alternatively, at 6th level you can go into Veiled Illusionist since you have the Haunted Curse. Pick up Spell Focus Illusion at 3rd, Racial Heritage (Gnome) at 5th, and Effortless Trickery at 7th. You will be a full divine caster with a nice list of illusion spells, for which you can concentrate on as a swift or move action, and enemies that disbelieve can be made to re roll their saves...
Edit: Also, regardless of what you do pick up some Breastplate and a Buckler... you need some more AC my friend!
More AC would be a must for this one.
Oh! But I can dish out heals like I'm in an mmo raid.
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Oh, it was worth it, alright.
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Would it a bad choice to pick up Extra Revelation at level one though? It seemed worth the feat.
IMO, Extra Revelation is really nice at the early level and then later you look back and say, "well I wish I would have taken x." Illusion based Oracles are always fun, just go to Veiled Illusionist and you have a really good spell diversity. To do that you have to have Spell Focus (Illusion) and probably want Effortless Trickery, which means Racial Heritage (Gnome), which also means you need all the feats you can afford... leaving little room for Extra Revelation...
Summon Monster I is pretty much a worthless spell at level 1, since it only lasts one round. I would swap that out for bless if possible. Also, if you are going for summonings you should probably look into Augment Summoning.
One thing to remember about an oracle is that since it's a spontaneous caster spell selection is what it's all about. You have to make sure that you go for versatile spells and that your spells don't overlap. You should probably make a list of what spells you are planning to take, so that you can make a plan on when to take them.
Hey guys, before anyone jumps to conclusions I'm not directly calling Oracles worthless, merely a question. I've recently started an Oracle with the Time Mystery ( Dual-Cursed ) and I may just be having an issue with caster. I was in a game this morning and I felt absolutely worthless, outside of my Misfortune from being Dual-Cursed. I sat back and did nothing. Does anyone else have issues playing an Oracle? Is it because I'm a caster time oracle? Would I be better off switching to battle? Share your own oracle experiences here.
One thing that I have noticed, that giving oracles channeling (as a base ability, not just as a mystery) would help enormously.
The problem with most of the abilities they get from their mysteries is that the usage/day is too low, but I don't plan to go mystery by mystery to fix them.
I have an Oracle of Life and I love it. I acted as the flank for the main line fighters at low level and by the end of every fight, I have the party at almost full hit points, much to the DM's chagrin.
Maybe it is the mystery, I don't know. The Oracle of Life is the only one that I have run. I can tell you that Xaratherus in that I think he brings it way more than a cleric of his level does. The channeling is a great help and it does depend on what revelations you take. All in all he is my favorite utility character. I am everyone's best friend due to Blessings of Fervor and Quickened Channel, etc.
No way is an Oracle worthless!
cleric/oracle spells do have the problem of not many offensive/multi-target/control options at low levels,
but realize that low levels are the swing-iest in terms of easily dying from an attack or two,
so your healing ability can easily come in handy to the party...
I don't think Summon Monster is a good choice at 1st level, you at least need some more duration to be worthwhile.
good 1st level spells:
murderous command, protection from evil, inflict light wounds
good 2nd level spells: aid, animate dead(lesser), darkness, stat boosts, hold person, silence, spiritual weapon
i can see why you might question extra revelation for getting erase from time at 1st level,
but i think the question is what else would you get with that feat?
you're already also getting improved init. toughness could help at low level, but you have on-command healing.
you could go for dodge/mobility to help AC... nimble moves is also convenient...
but i'm not sure what else would help with offensive/control, which is what you seem worried about,
and erase from time effectively functions as that, even if the duration sucks at low level,
it's taking 1 combatant out of the fight temporarily, which can easily help swing a battle...
(and everybody should know to surround the square when they're set to return, to flank+ready/full attack)
if you can think of a better offensive/control feat at 1st level, OK, but realize you're not 'built'
for melee combat, so anything you put in there will not be as useful down the line, while erase from time will be.
i guess you could go for spell focus:enchantment to boost the DC on murderous command/hold person/etc.
you should carry a shield, and get some sort of armor, eventually mithril medium (breastplate) should be ideal.
possibly even mithril heavy armor (buying proficiency via feat if you don't want attack and physical skill penalties).
get something a cross-bow, and a morningstar and/or longspear (that only works with buckler though).
long spear is convenient for being behind another ally while still attacking, plus drawing AoOs.
going with buckler is the same AC as light shield, but lets you get an extra +1 dmg if you want to 2-hand a weapon,
(as well as being able to use 2-handed weapons like longspear in the first place)
if you need to be in melee combat, be very aware of flanking, higher ground, AoO situations, anything that can help/hinder you.
don't bother investing in UMD now, it won't really be useful until you can routinely hit DC20... you can wait until around 5th-7th level and then get a pearl of +2 INT to instantly max out UMD at that point, earlier on you're better of putting the ranks in other skills.
the next revelations you really want are time hop/speed or slow time, IMHO.
extra usages of existing revelations, such as remove from time, are equally or more useful.
it seems like eldritch heritage might fit into your build, prereq skill focus,
but it allow some broader utility than the norm, and meeting the CHA requirement is easy.
arcane bloodline's familiar could be useful, it also lets you deliver touch spells via the familiar.
Oracles in my experience, despite me ranting about how much I hate curses on occasion, are much more attractive than a cleric if you want a divine caster. They can face a big defining choice with their mystery, because that defines many of their class features. Clerics have almost no class features, but oracles have a mass to choose from. Life oracles can make great healers, heavens spam colors that knock down foes, bones have some very attractive necromancer powers, and nature gets a mount and charisma to certain abilities.
I like dual cursed if you have a big set of options for curses, but if you can't handle your curses or take one that turns out to be a real bummer, life is a bummer. Legalistic and tongues is almost no pain and suffering for a major boost to their(and your friends!) save or sucks. Once per day per person reroll ability that you can use on your friends? That's pretty nifty. I always joked that we could pair one with a witch and watch them go. Then have the witch dip into oracle for another additional misfortune.
They can also be dip friendly, depending on how you handle the curse and what abilities your messing with. Heavens + Sylvan for instance. Run around on a mount spamming save or dies. It can be a one trick pony, but its a fun and very effective one. I've been told there are a few good ones for martials. Rage prophets for instance, are commonly made with a dip into oracle taking the lame curse to get immunity to fatigue.
If all else fails, you do have a 9 level casting. That has to mean something in life. The thing that might be bumming you out, is that you have to pick a curse, a mystery, and your spells. You have to make sure all that is something you can live with. Ask for a rebuild if something isn't working out, its okay, you don't want to live with being a mute in a game where talking is important.
Doesn't a thread title like this invite accusations of trollism?
Time is not ideal if you are worrying about low levels, but it's great for a Caster focus, which comes into it's own at higher levels, with Temporal Celerity helping greatly (more certain than Improved Init, although they stack), Remove from Time is great, Time Hop is great, and of course Rewind Time. Other Mysteries are of course also great, but Time also seems good if you want to be a good general caster.
I think with the advice in this thread, you can be succesful at low levels and very succesful at higher levels.
To be clear, I recommended taking Inflict as a Spell Known (assuming you chose to get Spontaneous Cure Casting) because it does decent damage and is a Touch Spell, so your relatively crappy to-hit doesn't matter. Plus if you end up with a Dhampir ally in PFS, it can heal them.
You could probably lower the STR and increase DEX. Could go with Weapon Finesse to use for Touch Attacks, but for Touch Spells I think you can go for Eldritch Heritage:Arcane to get a Familiar to deliver them for you, better Caster strategy there. Possibly increase INT if you want more Skill Ranks to synergize with the Revelation allowing re-roll adding CHA bonus (you eventually need actual ranks if you want to keep up with high DCs).
Do I even have access to Eldritch as a Oracle?
Pre-Req is 13 CHA and Skill Focus. Not Class dependent.
If you want to powerful casting at low to mid levels a similar build with the Heavens mystery and Awesome Display revelation can be very effective with Color Spray. In fact, if you keep your Charisma up this can be your go to spell through about 9th level. By then you should have plenty of other options. That said, the Time mystery can become very effective too. It just takes a little time...
I agree with the suggestion for Eldritch Heritage. The familiar can help you deliver healing, and later on you can take the Improved Familiar feat for even more fun.
The other nice thing about an Oracle is the focus on Charisma. When I play a Cleric, I always want my Wisdom high of course but I sometimes feel that my Charisma suffers and my Channel Energy is not nearly as effective against undead or whatever. Also, if you did run an Oracle with a mystery that grants access to Channeling, then Versatile Channeling is great if your build permits it.
That may be a little off topic as you seem to have gone a different route.
I will say that I'm not a fan of Dual-Cursed; I don't see the additional revelations and spells as sufficient balance for having an unimproving extra curse.
There are curse combination that don't need any balancing.
For example if you already want to be a deaf oracle, you get no additional (mechanical) drawback by taking the wolfscarred curse as well.After level 5 you have no drawback anymore from being legalistic in addition to having the wasting curse.
About Oracles in general: We've had one cleric in one of our games for a short time but we see several oracles played. And while I'd like to play a forgemaster cleric some time,it is much more likely that I play an oracle than a base cleric.
No, this is an oracle, they will never want for spells to the point where they need scrolls in order for them to be effective.As many people mentioned, a low level divine caster is harsh to start.
Ways Around This:
Scrolls. Scrolls. Scrolls. Start buying up as many scrolls as you can
No. But they will want scrolls to expand their spell selection.
Oracles are far from useless. As spontaneous spellcasters, however, you ultimately need to build them to specialize a fair bit more than your average cleric.
If you're going blasty (Time mystery is REALLY good at doing that), I recommend grabbing the Blackened Curse (Blood of Angels) as your primary curse for Dual-Cursed. As you level up, it gives you a nice medley of fire-based damage spells. The downside to this curse is that it gives you a big penalty on weapon attack rolls. Blackened/Haunted with the Time Mystery is one of my favorite combinations because you end up with a bunch of great spells, plus the awesome fortune / misfortune revelations. If you want to go full blasty, Blackened / Mystery of Fire is a better choice. Just make sure to pick up Energy Admixture as a feat.
...Why in gods' name would anyone ever take Haunted as the curse that doesn't advance?!!!
The penalty it gives can be utterly crippling. The payoff is that you keep getting great non-cleric spells as you level up.
You want a low-pain curse for the non-advancing one of dual cursed. The benefits don't matter so much since you only get 1st level benefits anyway.
The penalty it gives can be utterly crippling. The payoff is that you keep getting great non-cleric spells as you level up.
I agree that advancing Haunted is a great idea for the spells, but how could it possibly be crippling for a caster type Oracle?
It hurts for getting out Scrolls and Wands. Still I don't think it's that bad even as a martial Oracle as for the most part you only have to draw a weapon one per encounter and that's only if you don't already have it out because you're in a dungeon. I also remember seeing somewhere that RAI it wasn't supposed to affect weapons but I'm not entirely sure if that was right.
If you're taking it with Dual Cursed I'd definitely take it as advancing though too.
For pure caster blackened limbs is awesome if you never plan to attack.
Another combo that is common is wolf face and deaf. Deaf is sweet in that it gives all your spells even in other classes with silent spell.
My colorspray gnome went blackened/haunted. I make sure to annouce what rod I have at the start of a situtation. He will advance one of those since it is a dip.
Oracles are a very powerful class I would honestly take dual cursed everytime unless you needed the spells of your revelation. You get more revelations and misfortune works on allies too.
One problem with tongues as a curse is that many good cleric spells are language-dependent, which Tongues rather messes up.