How long do skill checks take?

[Question]

I don't see any indication of time on the skills page, and my DM says it's part of the rules that taking 10 takes 10 minutes...

[Kayerloth]

Depends on the skill in question. Each skill lists it as such:

Quote:

Action: The type of action using the skill requires, or the amount of time required for a check.

Taking 10 and or 20 have their own rules.

quote from CRB:

Taking 10 and Taking 20

A skill check represents an attempt to accomplish some goal, usually while under some sort of time pressure or distraction. Sometimes, though, a character can use a skill under more favorable conditions, increasing the odds of success.

Taking 10: When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure—you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn't help.

Taking 20: When you have plenty of time, you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, if you a d20 roll enough times, eventually you will get a 20. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20.

Taking 20 means you are trying until you get it right, and it assumes that you fail many times before succeeding. Taking 20 takes 20 times as long as making a single check would take (usually 2 minutes for a skill that takes 1 round or less to perform).

Since taking 20 assumes that your character will fail many times before succeeding, your character would automatically incur any penalties for failure before he or she could complete the task (hence why it is generally not allowed with skills that carry such penalties). Common “take 20” skills include Disable Device (when used to open locks), Escape Artist, and Perception (when attempting to find traps).

[Chemlak]

And no, taking 10 does not take 10 minutes (unless the skill in question takes 10 minutes for a check. Taking 10 takes the same amount of time as a normal skill check.

Taking 20, however, takes 20 times as long as a normal skill check: 2 minutes for a standard or full-round action check, or 1 minute for a move action check (since you can use your standard action as a move action as well as your normal move action each round). Actions which take longer than that take 20 times as long as it says in the individual skill description (hint: don't take 20 when crafting).

[Question]

I was looking at perception but it doesnt have any times listed? Same for stuff like knowledge.

[Orfamay Quest]

Question wrote:

I was looking at perception but it doesnt have any times listed? Same for stuff like knowledge.

That's because both of them can take as long as the GM demands. Most of the time, a Perception check takes no time at all ("not an action") as you either notice the guy sneaking up on you or you don't. But if you are searching a library for a specific passage in a book, it can take days.

Similarly, a Knowledge check can take no time at all ("You see a monster in front of you and your Knowledge (dungeoneering) tells you that it's a gelatinous cube.") or forever ("After two days in the library, you still haven't figured out the formula for illudium phosdex.")

Really, any check can take as long as the GM demands, but it's just particularly apparent with these two skills.

[RainyDayNinja]

Perception wrote:

Action: Most Perception checks are reactive, made in response to observable stimulus. Intentionally searching for stimulus is a move action.

Every skill has an "Action" section that tells you how long it takes to use.

[Relixander]

I think your GM may not get the intent of Take 10. It is simply a way to avoid a die roll, taking the "average" result. He may be balking at the idea of auto-success (which he has other ways to avoid). It represents no additional amount of time under typical situations, and is treated just a s though you had rolled a single check coming up with a 10 on the die.

A distraction or duress can eliminate the option to take 10, but as long as the character is not under pressure or faced with distractions, he/she has it as an option in most situations.

The length of time a perception check, as stated by others, can be variable. Part of it depends on how the check is being done and the intent of the GM. For example, as discussed on another thread; If I require a single check to search a room and their contents, that single check may represent 30 minutes worth of searching; If I require a check for each item in the room, table, chair, desk, walls, floor, ceiling, door, rug, etc. each check may represent a round. These times could (and would) apply to take 10 or take 20. So a take 20 on a 30 minute search would take 10 hours, a take 10 would still take 30 minutes.

[bbangerter]

Chemlak wrote:

....(hint: don't take 20 when crafting).

You can't take 20 on craft since a badly failed craft roll results in ruined materials. Take 20 can only be used when no bad stuff will happen on a failed roll.

[Ciaran Barnes]

Each skill has an entry that says "Action". This is where you can find the information you need.

Perception reads "Most Perception checks are reactive, made in response to observable stimulus. Intentionally searching for stimulus is a move action."

[Morgen]

Taking 10 is an important mechanic to understand as a GM. One of my favorite parts of the skill systems that came out of 3rd edition D&D and is missing from a lot of other very solid RPGs. It give you the ability to just do things without worrying that you might not make it up that ladder or be able to tread water in that swimming pool unencumbered.

Seriously some of these other games really need to have a don't waste time rolling for every little thing rule. :/

[Avh]

Quote:

Seriously some of these other games really need to have a don't waste time rolling for every little thing rule. :/

I know at least 2 systems that use automatic success :

- Vampire the masquerade : you can auto marginaly succeed a check if your number of dices is at least the same as the difficulty.
- Shadowrun 4th edition : you can trade 4 dices for 1 success (and can do so as much as you still have dices).

[Avianfoo]

Intentionally searching for stimulus sounds dirty.

[DrDeth]

Heck, few folks “get” taking 10 or taking 20. Very misunderstood.

[digitalpacman]

Question wrote:

I don't see any indication of time on the skills page, and my DM says it's part of the rules that taking 10 takes 10 minutes...

Knowledge checks do not take time.

All other checks take 6 seconds if the skill description does not specify otherwise (like disable device).

Certain skills have progression per 6 seconds (one movement, you can do two in one turn). Such as acrobatics or climbing or swimming.

Taking 10 does not take any additional time to complete, it simply means you are in a comfortable and stress free situation for you to take your time. The situation when you cannot take 10 is up to DM discretion.

Taking 20 multiplies the time it takes to complete a task by 20. So for instance, to take 20 to search a book case, it takes 6 * 20 seconds (2 minutes).

You cannot take 20 if a 1 means something bad would happen, DM discretion.

[Question]

Okay, turns out the 10 minutes thing is a house rule. DM likes using traps, and found out that if the party takes 10 all the time, the traps either get found all the time or are too difficult and cannot be found at all.

Any suggestions for this?

[Gauss]

Tongue in Cheek suggestion: Have the group act out taking 10 for 10 minutes.

How you can deal with his house rule: do not take 10. Take 20. You will roll 20 times and finish in 1 minute (1/10 the time of his house rule) and be guaranteed to find the traps.

If he overrules Take 20 also, just roll 20-40 times. Better yet, roll 200 times (the number of rolls you would get in those 10 minutes).

In Pathfinder traps are a virtual non-issue. Anyone can find most traps rather easily.

Even my level 7 cleric can find just about any trap (7 ranks, +6 wisdom, +3 class skill (courtesy of a trait), +5 Eyes of the Eagle = +21). For those few magic traps that require 'Trapfinding' to find, detect magic usually covers those.

I think your GM is discovering the unfortunate reality regarding traps in Pathfinder. They simply don't work if your group is even halfway alert.

- Gauss

[Question]

He also ruled that taking 20 takes 20 minutes and the results are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... in that order.

I'm not sure if he will outlaw rolling multiple times to find traps. I think he will if we start doing it and are successful.

[Gauss]

Taking 20 has no penalties for perception checks.

Then your options are:

1) Convince your group to explain to the GM that you guys do not want to play with such ridiculous house rules.

2) Accept his house rule and pump up your perception as high as you can (Eyes of the Eagle are nice for this) in order to defeat his traps anyhow.

3) Accept his house rule and use a trap monkey to trigger all traps. I like the spell 'mount' for this purpose. Long term summoned critter. Great for setting off traps as it runs full speed down a corridor. Buy a wand of it for 750gp and you have a 2hour long (or until death) trap finder.

4) Accept his house rule and use a player to trigger all traps.

5) Stop playing.

In any case, we have determined this is no longer a rules issue and is now an advice issue. Perhaps posting in that forum will yield results on how to deal with the GM.

- Gauss

[blackbloodtroll]

How does he deal with abilities that allow one to take 10 during combat?

Not many combats take 10 minutes.

These are silly houserules.

They simply slow things down.