Some of the players I've spoken to are interested in monk flavor, but feel they can be more effective as a fighter class. So, I made a radical suggestion that may or may not work. This fits well for a LE idea for a monk with a twisted view on Tao philosophy. Said monk would become obsessed with the calm, stillness of nothingness and dedicate his life to Groetus. To walk all the land teaching, his truth, that existence is chaos and only with the end of all things will come order and peace. Or could work with any other but some how this felt right, for all it's wrong.
Void Style:Prereq. Imp. Unarmed, Knowledge Religion 5, Wis. 17, Monk
Add Wis. mod. to Hit with Flurry of Blows.
Void Immersion:Prereq. Void Style, Knowledge Religion 8, Wis. 19, Monk
Add Wis. Mod. to Dam. with Flurry of Blows.
Void Oneness:Prereq. Void Immersion, Knowledge Religion 13, Wis. 21, Monk
Add Wis. Mod. to SR.
The thing is, many have said this would make the monk too strong, but if folks go with something else they feel is more effective, even when they'd like to play a monk, I think this might work to make the monk more appealing.
This absolutely would not make monk too strong, if anything the feat cost and level requirements are too high.
What level are you actually starting at?
If you'd like a more comprehensive fix, you could try out my houserules for monk.
There's also a really cool one someone else made on GITP.com that keeps medium BAB (but gets wis plus either dex or str to attack and damage to make up for it) that is for D&D 3E and would thus need some converting, but is very nice. I could find a lnk for it if you'd like.
I shamelessly mention my own monk rework. Forgive.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pohi?The-Monk-20
Thanks, looked one of those over. I'll keep working on it. No one has tried it out yet. Wanted it to not give too much bonus at too low a lvl. I feel like having one Ability score that does it all make it a little uneven. When we try it on I may make some adjustment to see what fits. I'd kinda like to keep it simple to not go over the top. Also I'll look these over more when I'm with my computer. Thanks y'all.
I'm not sure why you think it is necessary to make the new feats. Wis-to-hit is already available as a feat (with a bit of effort); and if you allow it as a GM, the monk can obtain a guided amulet of mighty fists (printed in the Curse of the Crimson Throne adventure path). The guided weapon property allows you to use Wis to attack and damage.
That's great, I've never seen it, and I hadn't heard of the feat for Wis. to Hit.
technically a fighter could qualify for these with a single monk dip, and still end up better.
@Critter:
It's not a straight-up feat, but requires a bit of effort:
4 levels of paladin, or 1 level of cleric handle the channeling feature bit, then it is a matter of choosing an appropriate deity (since it is limited to favored weapon). For monks, Irori works perfectly fine of course.
If you're not keen on a multi-classing monk to get the feat, it would be easiest to grant a feat (or archetype) that grants access to a monk to the channel energy class feature. Similar to paladin: 2 ki points to channel energy as a cleric of the monk's level.
Thanks, looked one of those over. I'll keep working on it. No one has tried it out yet. Wanted it to not give too much bonus at too low a lvl. I feel like having one Ability score that does it all make it a little uneven. When we try it on I may make some adjustment to see what fits. I'd kinda like to keep it simple to not go over the top. Also I'll look these over more when I'm with my computer. Thanks y'all.
Well, my monk has full BAB but is not adding any other stat than str (or dex if he takes Finesse, of course) to hit or damage, instead I have Wis replace most functions of Con so you can focus mostly on Str-Dex-Wis, you still wouldn't want a negative Con but you can safely leave it around 10. Half of my changes are just smart-grading back to what the rules were in 3E. In fact, I'm just now noticing I forgot to allow 2ndary natural attacks with flurry of blows, like you could do in 3E and like any other character two weapon fighting, unarmed style or not, can do in PF. I shall fix that now...
technically a fighter could qualify for these with a single monk dip, and still end up better.
Yeah...
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If you'd like a more comprehensive fix, you could try out my houserules for monk.
I really like those house rules. Only thing I'm curious about is if that version of the Monk makes it an even more tempting dip class. Any thoughts on that?
I really like those house rules. Only thing I'm curious about is if that version of the Monk makes it an even more tempting dip class. Any thoughts on that?
Thanks.
I intentionally made the wisdom replacing con for hit points only apply to levels gained in monk specifically to curb dipping appeal, as well as pushing off the fort save replacing to level 3 (I see no reason to not give it at 1 balance-wise, the dip issue was why I held it off).
None of the bonus feats available initially are much different than the ones PF monks get, and few allow you to "skip" other feats and those that do are not very good (like Mobility).
All of the other benefits come beyond the first couple levels. The only thing that makes my monk more tempting as a dip is basically the full BAB meaning you don't fall behind by 1 on it from dipping, which is not a huge change and an unavoidable one if you want to make something full BAB.
I tried to keep dipping in mind when designing the changes as best I could.
I suppose access to Improved Natural Attack would also be applicable... Since that requires BAB +4 anyway, I could just give that as a level 4 class feature to curb dipping. I really don't think it's that attractive as a dip, though. Unarmed style is pretty weak. You could dip Paladin for 3 levels and get the same BAB, better HD, nearly as good base saves, great proficiencies, charisma to all saves on top of the good base saves, fear immunity, swift action self-healing / standard action others-healing with a single mercy, and a 1/day "ignore DR till you're dead" ability. Just for comparison's sake...
Yeah, the main difference would be not losing a point of BAB. It's better, not a huge difference.
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Great title.
Thanks again to everyone, for sure. This has opened me up to a load of new ideas I hadn't thought of before. I'm going to start checking out the messageboards a lot more. Nice to have such a large community.
By the way, do a lot of GMs allow for multi-classing during game play? I always run it that you have to wait for long stretches of game-down time to pass. When one thing is done and players are going somewhere to train. This makes problems for those with detailed character plans. With monks and magic users, loads of game-down time is required.
That is a surprise. I thought training was something everyone did. I know it can be left out, but I assumed everyone used it. I think I don't feel right with out it. That sounded bad. It just feels right to me.
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I never use training as part of the gameplay either. I consider characters to be gradually improving and learning new things and at some point their improved skills warrant a mechanical bonus. There are no sudden revelations or anything of the sort that the characters can perceive. I think this approach is more fluid and realistic and more akin to the way people grow and improve through experience.
To return to the OP, just so my comment isn't completely off topic, I like the idea of an evil Buddhist and kind of want to play one now. lol
Nope, never use training. You get your training exploring dungeons and fighting monsters just fine.