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Running a game this week. I like the idea of collecting some secrete rolls from the players before the adventure begins, especially the knowledge, sense motive, and willpower saves. These sort of rolls are not always good for everyone at the table to know are being thrown around. Think of how bad the meta gaming gets when a sense motive roll is asked for. What worries me is that if a player has a reroll, shouldn't they be allowed to know what type of roll it is before deciding to use that reroll? I would expect to know what I was rolling for when I have a re roll available. So should I just not ask the players to write down a few rolls on a chart for me before the game so I can reference it at the right time. Advice?
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This is a tough one because it involves a particular amount of trust by the players (yes yes, that's always the case, but in this case it's more so). I like collecting a handful of secret rolls, too. At one point I would request characters' Will and Sense Motive modifiers at the beginning of a scenario, but that meant not only that the players could see/hear me roll dice when the bluff was happening, but it also took a bit of the control out of the players' hands.
I now tend to use a method I learned from Kyle Baird, who perhaps picked it up from yet another quality GM. He passes around a card to each player and requests three Will saves pre-rolled and three Sense Motive checks pre-rolled. In this way a player can choose to blow a re-roll early on when recording these results. When the time comes to actually roll a Will save or Sense Motive "invisibly," the GM can just roll 1d3 and use the first, second, or third result listed for the player.
As a further addendum, I might use the above method but let the player know that I'm rolling for them. When I do so, I ask if there are any non-pass/fail conditions that they would like to use for a re-roll. I've had players tell me, "re-roll it if you got an 8 or lower," or "hey, just use your judgment and let me know if you triggered my re-roll." If performed honestly and respectfully, it gradually builds not only the GM's integrity but the integrity of the community.
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Running a game this week. I like the idea of collecting some secrete rolls from the players before the adventure begins, especially the knowledge, sense motive, and willpower saves. These sort of rolls are not always good for everyone at the table to know are being thrown around. Think of how bad the meta gaming gets when a sense motive roll is asked for. What worries me is that if a player has a reroll, shouldn't they be allowed to know what type of roll it is before deciding to use that reroll? I would expect to know what I was rolling for when I have a re roll available. So should I just not ask the players to write down a few rolls on a chart for me before the game so I can reference it at the right time. Advice?
Making secret rolls for players can indeed keep them, in some instances, from using their shirt- or Character Portfolio-rerolls. Rolling secretly has been something I've been tempted to try, but in the heat of GMing (usually cold) the thought just isn't there. Plus, most of the players in my game are taking an active hand in their own dice. Taking that away from them might cause trouble.
About the only rolls I have players make beforehand is Initiative. And I often ask them for ten of those and their Initiative modifiers. That way I don't have to go around the table at every combat and ask them what they rolled, and when numbers match, I only have to bother them for roll-offs. I've never really mused about the effects of keeping Sense Motive or Willpower saving throws secret, but given the opportunity I can see that in many situations it would be very useful to do so.
As a further addendum, I might use the above method but let the player know that I'm rolling for them. When I do so, I ask if there are any non-pass/fail conditions that they would like to use for a re-roll. I've had players tell me, "re-roll it if you got an 8 or lower," or "hey, just use your judgment and let me know if you triggered my re-roll." If performed honestly and respectfully, it gradually builds not only the GM's integrity but the integrity of the community.
This is a brilliant idea and I think I may try it out in my games if I do things like secret rolls. And it clearly appears to be a good way for you to let the players know what types of rolls they are and to give them some choice. That said, most all of my secret rolls are for the initiatives and skill checks of the baddies, and then, again, I pokerface about the results.
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I have never been a big fan of of the GM rolling dice for a player. People like feeling they were responsible for their characters fate. Most time taking die rolls away from the players can diminish the feeling of character "ownership".
As far as meta gaming goes, I never worry about trying to prevent or limit opportunities. Kind of see it as a waste of time. Players are either meta gamers or they are not. If they are, they will find way to meta game and if they are not, then you have no problem. I will, however call out meta gamers at every turn.
This is not a hard line for me, just more of general tenor. If you trust your players they tend to be more trustworthy and it avoids heading down the road of GM vs. Player mentality.
