My PCs have become fascinated by the sunken Paradise barge - they want to raise it - partly to search for treasure, and partly out of sheer PC cussedness, I guess.
They've hired Irontooth to get a team of oxen, ropes, pulleys, etc... to do the work with. They intend to drive a couple of posts into the shore to act as anchors and work from there.
I am going to have the divers attacked by giant gar (they've already been warned about their presence) but I'd love some suggestions of other problems they can run into during this process.
They have NOT heard yet about the tattoos (I think that Irontooth will turn out to have one, and tell them about it). Right now, they're off in the woods at the Graul homestead, so I have time to come up with "what happens"...
Thanks in advance for any advice/suggestions!
My PCs have become fascinated by the sunken Paradise barge - they want to raise it - partly to search for treasure, and partly out of sheer PC cussedness, I guess.
They've hired Irontooth to get a team of oxen, ropes, pulleys, etc... to do the work with. They intend to drive a couple of posts into the shore to act as anchors and work from there.
I am going to have the divers attacked by giant gar (they've already been warned about their presence) but I'd love some suggestions of other problems they can run into during this process.
They have NOT heard yet about the tattoos (I think that Irontooth will turn out to have one, and tell them about it). Right now, they're off in the woods at the Graul homestead, so I have time to come up with "what happens"...
Thanks in advance for any advice/suggestions!
How's about the likelihood of the boat coming apart when they try to pull it out. It was burned, after all. And they're going to be mighty disappointed, because I doubt there is any treasure on it. Perhaps a couple of gold coins, tops. I would imagine Lucretia made off with anything of value.
I read about all these strange obsessions people's groups get along the way and then think about how my group never does things like this. Then I wonder, is there something wrong with my group or everyone else's? ;-)
I don't think your group is strange at all. My group has pretty much gone according to the AP without trying anything weird.
I think the only thing they did that was unorthodox was going down the well at the Foxglove Mansion. They bypassed alot but were eventually successful.
Likewise,
I don't think this is strange behavior. I have often questioned why my first group wasn't more interested in the Paradise.
(Well.. I can think of a couple reasons, but nevermind..)
The point is, they've found something interesting that has captured their imagination.
That's gold. You can't ask for more. That is an indication that they're having fun.
To just slightly disagree with a previous poster, don't be quick to make this is a dead end that will be just a waste of time. Reward their curiousity and their inegnuity. I realize that you probably don't want them going off on a wild tangent and you don't want to unbalance the AP.. but this sort of opportunity to really enrich the AP and dispel any notion that they're being railroaded.
Here are some basic ideas..
1.) Obviously make the relevation of the tattoo's known. Not just to the party, but to the whole town. There are great role-playing opportunities to be had there, straight out of a Stephen King novel (a favorite author of James Jacobs). This notion that the whole town was engaged in something wicked without realizing it is straight out of Needful Things, or Storm of the Century.
Imagine the horror of the town priest, to find out that corruption was happening in his flock without being aware of it. Sex, money, and secrets. Tsk tsk.
Revealing this doesn't really change anything about the AP. Lucretia has already escaped, and Fort Ranick has already fallen.
2.) There is forensic evidence to be found that might be interesting. The fires might be shown to be deliberate, but apart from no sign of Lucretia, everyone died. Even the guards and enforcers who maintained the boat for Miss Lucretia (she must have had some minions who were working for her even if they didn't undertsand the full implications of what she was and was doing, which she then sacrificed like pawns). That's chilling. Because it suggests even the "bad guys" died. All of them.
3.) Remember the PC have got to be spending money to hire divers and laborers in order to do this (I hope anyway).. So let them find some treasure. They'll feel good about it and you'll be just be restoring the balance. Don't just make it treasure, have it be a clue as to the final minutes of the paradise. Like people with pouches and pockets so stuffed with gold that they couldn't swim. They drowned wealthy at last.
Remember, Lucretia only needs gold for operational expenses. Same with Mokmurian. They spread this money around (all the way down the chain of the adventure path from Xanesia to Nualia) to manipulate the weak. Some of the real villains of the AP understand that greed is the ultimate means to an end, and are less interested in personal wealth but rather exploiting that weakness in others. When they need money, they get money, and they're not afraid to give it away either.. Since Lucretia might be a sole survivor, don't be afraid to leave some of that cash behind. She couldn't carry it all with her. Let it offset the money they're spending to finance this venture.
4.) Such a terrible death could leave restless spirits.. shadows or other appropriate level undead. Maybe a custom created undead that the party can communicate with, and who can relate the circumstances of their watery death. Knowing about it still won't change anything, but will add a chilling context of things to come.
5.) Perhaps there could be something to indicate that one of the Black Arrows was spending an inordinate amount of time on the Paradise, and with Miss Lucretia herself.. all the time. Correlate the timing between the sinking of the Paradise and the raid on Fort Ranick. Make them suspect that a Black Arrow might have betrayed it's own. Get the other ranger survivors wondering about that too..
Make Kaven Windstrike sweat bullets.. all good role-playing hooks.
And if the big reveal with Lucretia still happens, all you've done is foreshadow it a little.
6.) An Argorth might make for a scary encounter, but with all the evil magic at work, you work that angle.. but the encounter might be a little hard without some help.
...............
In any case, don't be afraid to work with their ideas. They'll love it, and it shouldn't be too hard to steer them back on course!
Watcher, thanks! You've given me some really great ideas...
I don't think they're strange - just sort of arbitrary! This is the first thing they've "leapt on" in the whole campaign, and it would have to be something difficult for me to envision the results of.
But I think I'm actually going to foster some of their plans (at least exploring the wreck) by giving them some water-breathing potions from the Graul House (if they DARE drink anything they recover there!).
One PC did dive on the wreck, and I didn't describe any bodies in the wreckage; so I think I'll have them find only a couple of bodies (sets of bones) that appear to be the security guards (maybe they have distinctive armor or belt buckles or medallions). They could easily be partly buried in the mud near the wreck rather than fully within it. Or under it...
Watcher, thanks! You've given me some really great ideas...
I don't think they're strange - just sort of arbitrary! This is the first thing they've "leapt on" in the whole campaign, and it would have to be something difficult for me to envision the results of.
All the more reason to capitalize on it. They're getting invested.
But I think I'm actually going to foster some of their plans (at least exploring the wreck) by giving them some water-breathing potions from the Graul House (if they DARE drink anything they recover there!).
One PC did dive on the wreck, and I didn't describe any bodies in the wreckage; so I think I'll have them find only a couple of bodies (sets of bones) that appear to be the security guards (maybe they have distinctive armor or belt buckles or medallions). They could easily be partly buried in the mud near the wreck rather than fully within it. Or under it...
Cool.. but consider this.. bodies in cool cold water don't decay that quickly.
On the flip side, when the Edmund Fitzgerald sunk in Lake Superior (a very cold lake) the bodies weren't recovered. The cold stifles a lot of oxygen producing organisms that help with decay or create gases. I don't know how cold this lake is.. but its something to consider, particularly since it is winter.
Again, I wouldn't be afraid to give them some information from clues. The events set into motion at Fort Ranick are not going to change necessarily.
How thorough a look did the initial diver get? Just that there were no bodies up on deck, or did he go "inside" the barge?
Because it seems most likely to me that the dead bodies would be inside/belowdecks, in the casino and various private rooms. Further, there should be chains and locks on the doors, trapping everyone inside when the fire started...
Cool.. but consider this.. bodies in cool cold water don't decay that quickly.
However, there are a lot of meat eating fish in there. Nothing says yum like some fresh human bodies stuck in a boat.
Of course, if they're locked into rooms, well, that solves that. :-)
However, there are a lot of meat eating fish in there. Nothing says yum like some fresh human bodies stuck in a boat.
Of course, if they're locked into rooms, well, that solves that. :-)
Excellent point!
How thorough a look did the initial diver get? Just that there were no bodies up on deck, or did he go "inside" the barge?
Because it seems most likely to me that the dead bodies would be inside/belowdecks, in the casino and various private rooms. Further, there should be chains and locks on the doors, trapping everyone inside when the fire started...
Good ideas here!
I imagine Lucretia ordering the doors to be chained shut, after which her hired henchmen look to her and ask, "Okay, now how do we escape?"
She laughs throatily and replies, "You don't."
Make sure you describe some claw marks on the insides of the doors, and how the bodies tumble out when they first break the chains and open them up. Because all the guests were crawling, clawing, pounding, screaming, and stepping on top of each other to get out.
Original Poster, you can't buy that kinda horror! Definitely let them explore the Paradise! This doesn't have to be a game de-railer!
*********************
In one of my games, they found clues that led them to Kaven Windstrike prior to encountering Lucretia. Jakandros freaked out and demanded a summary execution in the middle of town. It ended up happening but there was a good bit of role-playing drama.
Lucretia never got to spring her surprise (well, she still gloated) but that was okay.
You can bend the script so long as they're having fun.
While I think the advice given is good, I think the question speaks to a broader one that I have been wondering about... Should all player curiousity be rewarded or are dead ends and red herrings in investigations a good thing in an RPG?
I ask because there have been a fair number of situations like this in the last AP I ran and in general I didn't change anything that was written in the AP but would just have whatever happened show up (giving clues from the Paradise is a good example, but I likely wouldn't have added any creatures). But there were times that they would look into something or someone that just had nothing to do with anything. Instead of making up an unrelated sidetrek for them to work on I just let the lead sort of peter out.
Is this a good thing as it lets them know I am not throwing them bones they don't deserve and that their successes investigating are truly theirs? Or am I diverting rp time that could be made fun for the players and therefor not being all I can be as a DM?
Sean Mahoney
While I think the advice given is good, I think the question speaks to a broader one that I have been wondering about... Should all player curiousity be rewarded or are dead ends and red herrings in investigations a good thing in an RPG?
I ask because there have been a fair number of situations like this in the last AP I ran and in general I didn't change anything that was written in the AP but would just have whatever happened show up (giving clues from the Paradise is a good example, but I likely wouldn't have added any creatures). But there were times that they would look into something or someone that just had nothing to do with anything. Instead of making up an unrelated sidetrek for them to work on I just let the lead sort of peter out.
Is this a good thing as it lets them know I am not throwing them bones they don't deserve and that their successes investigating are truly theirs? Or am I diverting rp time that could be made fun for the players and therefor not being all I can be as a DM?
Sean Mahoney
I think it's situational Sean. I do agree that sometimes a time wasting red herring is just a time wasting red herring.
I dunno.. I got a sense from the Original Posters remark that this was the first thing that his party became really invested in was a telling sign that maybe he should try to work with it.
That may not always be the case.
I remember when my two groups found Xaneshia's notes that she had sold Vorel's Phage to the Red Mantis in Korvosa.. I nipped that right in the bud, because I felt that would have disrupted the game.
I wouldn't second guess yourself, but just look for those times when it feels right to let them explore a little. If they're having fun, your instincts are probably correct for that group.
I thoroughly find the 'red herring' of the burned, sunken barge/gambling rivership to be pretty awesome. Tack on the 'forensics horror' as the characters unveil the gruesome evidence day by day.
The gar can be pretty easily contained - by really big nets anchored along to either side of the barge let's say, perhaps with the added cost of hiring mercenaries packing heavy crossbows to shoot up some 'fresh catch' for chow or something.
What could be malicious would be to see if the Grauls are out and about or not.
A custom encounter racing against the last bits of evidence is just crying out to be done - bad weather worsening as the baddie relentlessly butchers NPCs and PCs alike, driving the latter into the waterlogged bowels of the riverboat-casino ... mmmmm ^_^