So... a Souldrinking Barbarian


Advice


So I love the Souldrinker. I love that it lacks a casting requirement. I also love conductive... especially on an Amulet of Mighty Fists. You may be able to see where this is going and if not here's a rough build.

Barbarian 5
Oni Spawn Tiefling (+2 Str/Wis, -2 Cha) with the alternate racial Maw or Claw (for either a bite or two claws, most likely the two claws).

Feats
1. Power Attack
3. Extra Rage Power (Reckless Abandon)
5. Master Craftsman
7. Craft Wondrous Item or Inscribe Magic Tattoo

Rage Powers
2. Lesser Fiend Totem (1d8 gore primary)
4. Animal Fury (1d4 bite, ambiguous is secondary or primary)

So at 7th with a Conductive +1 Amulet of Mighty Fists you're looking at 4 (or 3 depending on how you rule Animal Fury) +13 hit +11 damage natural attacks that each bestow one negative level. It didn't seem too shabby to me, though whether the gore attack is worth (someday, as 6 levels of Souldrinker is what you want) losing pounce from the Beast Totem line is iffy.

Crafting feat is to of course not waste the soul points and the 1-4 soul gems of varying price that your Cacaeodeamons can make you per day.

Liberty's Edge

Unfortunately, the Conductive property only works once per round, so you can still only do one negative level per round. Of course, you'll get 3 or 4 difference chances to get a hit and thus impose that negative level, so there's still a benefit there.


I've been looking at something similar (although a synthesist to get as many unarmed attacks as possible).

There is a problem though, concerning the synergy between AoMF and conductive. While I don't think there has been any official comment, there seem to be a lot that favors the ruling that the amulet counts as a single weapon in regards to weapon special abilities.

In that interpretation you only get to deliver the negative level(s) once.
Similarly it affects whether or not you loose the attack bonus on every attack on abilities such as defending.


I took Conductive's limit to mean "once per round per conductive weapon"; like you could dual wield two conductive weapons and each could trigger but only once per round each. That would still be ambiguous with an AoMF, but I can definitely see the argument that each natural attack is a separate weapon, so each could trigger it.


While the souldrinker has no casting requirement you also will not get any spells from the class without levels in a casting class though and you would not qualify for Inscribe Magic Tattoo.

It is up for debate whether you can use the conductive property multiple times per round, personally I do not think so, neither would allow it to since it is too powerful an effect. Much like the speed enhancement does not give multiple attacks or how 'spell storing' should not be able to store 1 spell per natural attack you possess.

Some of the abilities refer to your spell casting ability modifier you do not necessarily have, I think the lack of a casting requirement is more likely than not an oversight and suspect that you need to be able to cast 3rd level spells.


All this time I thought I knew exactly what Master Craftsman did, but apparently I over generalized it in my memory to "can qualify for any magical crafting besides consumables." You are correct about Inscribe Magic Tattoo being RAW incompatible.

I would personally see the casting modifier as "highest mental stat" for those without a caster level, though I can see your point about it being a potential oversight. Still I like it the way it is because I find it more interesting ;p


Souldrinker is a great class. Too good. They need to limit the ability to use soul points for crafting.... Anyway...

If your DM interprets it that you can get away with multiple natural attacks and one amulet, go for it.

How you make this work: Conductive weapons only work once per round. You NEED quick draw and will NEED to invest in multiple weapons to justify the level dip.

I still think you should consider going for a fighter build if you want to dip this. The ability is strong enough that you (I would) want to sacrifice rage damage bonuses to be able to hit more reliably. I'd almost say forget about power attack, considering how nasty this can get.

Justification for fighter: the bonus feats will help ease the burden on feat requirements for playing twf. You can also add on gloves of dueling for better chances to hit - really cost effective increase. You want to be able to reliably hit with this.

The most important part is to use kukris. You do double negative levels on a crit. You want to crit. A lot. With fighter you can probably squeeze in weapon focus for both kukris AND spiked gauntlets, so you can have two sets of attacks before you have to worry about dropping weapons to draw new ones.

The other reason I say go fighter is because if you are going for the 2 level dip to get the negative level damage, its hard to resist going a full 6 levels for the increase to it, and for that you will be losing out on a lot of base attack bonuses that you will need to make up for. Imagine being level 12 and potentially doing anywhere from 12-24 negative levels in a full round. At the bare minimum its completely neutered. And the increase to spellcasting (you DID dip in cleric for buffs right?) gives you some options for undead and constructs.

I've actually wound up using this class (with a full caster though, the crafting abuse was hilarious), and its definitely worth giving a cohort 2 levels for crafting. (Hint: summon monster 1 can be used for 2HD dolphins, you get soul points for draining if its HD=your class level for animal targets)

Also, I'd imagine your casting stat for the class if you don't already have casting levels would default to your charisma. Its what most racial abilities use, the closest things we have to spells without caster level requirements. I don't know of any exact ruling to quote on that, just going off of the only examples we currently have.


While I'm not sure you could get conductive to work on each claw independently, it'd probably work on different natural attacks (such as once for a claw, once for a bite, tentacle, etc.).

Also, you could take a 1-level dip into oracle (flame or metal for the +10 movement revelations (cinder dance and dance of the blades, respectively)) or something so you have a legit casting stat and some stuff for buffing and such in or out of battle (before rage, or with moment of clarity rage power), as well as oracle curses scaling with level--even if not all that well (you'd get your 5th-level curse power at 9th, and your 10th-level power at 19th level)

Take maw or claw on tief to get claws, and adopted for the bite attack via the orcs of golarion "Tusked" trait (NOT to be confused with the "Toothy" half-orc racial feature).

A human or an aasimar (with scion of humanity) with racial heritage(kobold) trick to grab a tail slap attack via the "Tail Terror" feat, and grab the tusked trait above for a bite attack. They'd have to get the claws via beast totem or EH abyssal (which i'd recommend for the scaling STR bonus anyway) or something.

A build for the above might look something like (COMPLETELY off the cuff, so be gentle):

Spoiler:

human barbarian (urban/invincible rager?) 4 / oracle (flame or metal/legalistic) 1 / souleater 10

all stat gains into strength, all FCB's (barbarian) into skill points.

minimum stats required:
str 13+ (power attack), dex ??, con 15 (raging vitality), int ??, wis ??, cha 14 (for ability to cast all granted spell levels (4th level spells) after the dip and PrC)

traits:
(racial) Tusked (orcs of golarion p.23 iirc)
(magic) magical knack (oracle)?

feats/class ability choices:
1 Barb 1 - Racial Heritage (Kobold), Tail Terror
2 Orcl 1 - Cinder Dance or Dance of Blades (revelation)
3 Barb 2 - Power Attack, Beast Totem (rage power)
4 Barb 3 -
5 Barb 4 - Raging Vitality, Moment of Clarity (rage power)
6 SolE 1 -
7 SolE 2 - ???
8 SolE 3 -
9 SolE 4 - ???
10 SolE 5 -
11 SolE 6 - ???
12 SolE 7 -
13 SolE 8 - ???
14 SolE 9 -
15 SolE 10 - ???
16 Barb 5 -
17 Barb 6 - ???
18 Barb 7 -
19 Barb 8 - ???
20 Barb 9 -

This is assuming you're going full-in for the prestige class for better energy drain DCs and spellcasting-- any number of levels could be swapped out for more barbarian goodness if you wanted.

also of note you have a 40 base movement speed thanks to the revelation (and a whopping 50 speed if you go without urban barbarian).

I'm pretty sure you're gonna need multiattack to the bite/claw/claw/tail slap attack combo you'll have going, but I could be wrong.

urban/invulnerable rager gives flexible rage (you can controlled rage OR regular rage) bonuses to throw around as needed and more bulk via some DR/-, consider spending feats along the way to grab extra rage power or extra revelation if there's things you like.

grab a conductive/furious/courageous (it amplifies rage and legalistic!)


.

One thing I'm curious on is why people say soul stones for item creation is so nuts--they're not even worth all that much when doing stuff, since the souldrinker just gets basic souls via the pool, and even grand souls are kinda measly, especially with how hard they are to get (grand souls, i mean). you'd have to be a VERY prolific murderer (even for an adventurer) to really shave down the price much on anything above REALLY cheap wondrous items.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

If you go deep into a 8/10 casting PrC, I think you would not regret picking up a level of some casting class to take advantage of it.

Liberty's Edge

This class is very vague. It says "immune to effects that give a Strength or Constitution penalty", I'm trying to figure out whether that grants you complete immunity to the fatigued condition. If it does, that's an extra bonus. Free rage-cycling!


I think you still have the condition, you are just not effected.


@SPACEBALL12345

I've considered many builds that used Quick Draw (and a third party feat that allows one with Quickdraw and several ranks of Sleight of Hand to also sheathe as a free action) in order to maximize the number of negative levels. Depending on how a DM would rule a Conductive Amulet of Mighty Fists, each unique attack could count as a separate weapon with Conductive, negating the need for a Quickdraw juggle.

Also I've investigated crits with Kukris before; the rules answer I got here was that if you crit with a Conductive weapon, you don't crit with the ability. Why? Because you only declare you are using it after you hit. If that's the case then you gain no benefit from a 15-20 crit range besides the obvious benefit of critting on 15-20.

Natural Weapons are also nice as they are front loaded and as all primary, they all hit at full BAB. A Barbarian 5/Souldrinker 6 would have a BAB of 8 (on par with a 3/4 class) + rage + reckless abandon so there would still be a respectable to hit. I guess one dip in a casting class would only hurt your BAB by 1, so it could work out.

@AndIMustMask

My group doesn't use traits by default, but blowing a feat on Extra Traits to get a bite attack could be worthwhile. Racial heritage on a Human to get a tail slap is RAW, but I know if I tried something like that there would be a backlash for making it too "rules lawyerish".

I didn't think of adding Furious to the AoMF though. That's a great idea. As AoMF doesn't require a +1 to add an effect, you could just have a +2 AoMF (with the plusses being Furious and Conductive) and it would function as a +2 Conductive while raging, ie every fight. Thank you for that. Even if I don't get to use this Souldrinker build, I'll remember that in case I ever just make a natural weapon Barbarian...

Tengu's can get 3 natural attacks to start (bite claw claw). Go Serene Barbarian and get a Furious Agile AoMF? That's gonna happen someday too ;p

Also about soul gems; you can get between 1-4 (depending on how many cacaodemons you summon with your 1d3 of them) you can potentially get a few hundred to a few thousand extra gold toward crafting per day adventuring, which is pretty damn handy at mid level (where you get the ability) or if you have a DM that tends to play it pretty tight with "gold drops".

@NeoSeraphi

I always took that to mean "immune to str and con damage" but I always kinda glossed over that part. If it gives immunity to fatigued this idea just got funnier.


I'm going to keep this response short so this doesn't get moved to the rules forum on you: conductive weapons cause the full effect of the ability. The ability explicitly calls that its going to do something on a crit. Remember threatening a crit and confirming a crit are two separate rolls, so it's conceivable that you hit, declare use on conductive, and fail to confirm. I understand a magus has an explicit clause for spell crits and conductive doesn't, but I'd be hard pressed to argue that 'the effects of both the weapon attack and the special ability' doesn't include an effect stated in the ability. Do you have a link to the post you are talking about?

I still like the AoMF if that works (not super familiar with unarmed combat yet). Maybe find a way to combine this with blood crow strike for a ranged option?

Idk, if it really doesn't work with kukris I'm at a loss.


Here's the response I was referring to about Conductive crits. It's hardly an official ruling, but I see the point being made.

Blood Crow Strike wouldn't work with Natural Weapons as it specifies unarmed strikes or Flurry of Blows only, though I could have swore there was a feat, maybe a racial one, that let you use Natural weapons in a Flurry... a potential RAW bypass if your DM wouldn't just allow Natural Attacks. I think most reasonable DM's would count the AoMF as one weapon regarding Conductive, because 4 negative levels plus good damage for one full round attack at level 7 is a bit much, but it's an interesting thought regardless.

This is third party, but I really like the Sublime Transmuter paired with Souldrinker. The class is structured just like the Oracle with a Mystery and Revelations (just renamed and each is more specialized and diverse) except it can only cast Transmutation spells. One of the Mysteries gives proficiency with all sword like weapons and one of the revelations gives you the option to burn spell slots to make your BAB equal to your character level for a short time (not class level; this is specific)... so go 5 levels of that and then go Soul Drinker because the poor BAB can be temporarily negated and then you can use the Soul Points to regain spells. Wakizashis would be a good dual wield option as you would be auto proficient.

The issue with that idea is that it would be MAD; Need Strength, Dex to qualify for TWF feats, Cha for casting, and Con as you are a front liner.


actually rage+raging vitality covers your con needs for the most part.

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