I was thinking of doing a kitsune sorc with the fey blood line (similar to http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2opcd?So-Kitsune-Sorcerer). Can anyone provide some advice for spell/skill selection?
Feats: Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus
Traits: Extremely Fashionable (for diplomacy/intimidate), Reactionary
Skills: Bluff, spellcraft, use magic device, K. Arcana, K. Nature, Perception, etc
Spells: Sleep, Charm person, Mage Armor, Shield, Grease, Obscuring Mist
Thanks for the help. I guess my biggest problem ATM is skills...i only have 12 int, so i can only max out Arcana knowledge, UMD and spellcraft. Would it be a good idea to split skill ranks instead of maxing skills?
Spells : Do i need read magic? Or is there some other way to read magical writing without this spell? Otherwise i'm going with read magic, detect magic, presdigation, jolt and detect poison.
1st level spells : mage armor, grease and sleep.
For traits...would something that lowers metamagic level by 1 be a good idea?
Definitely split.
I believe there is a way but it requires a hefty spellcraft or... something check.
As for traits- good point. Magical Lineage (Hideous Laughter) can go a long way.
Hmm, but i'm starting at 3rd level, and don't have access to level 2 spells yet. Can i still pick that?
Drop Use Magic Device, max linguistics - a lot of your spells need communication.
If your party has a bard or wizard let them max out knowledge Arcane and use the other point for some of the above skills.
Like wise the Inner Beauty trait give a 1/day +4 bonus on a Bluff or Diplomacy roll.
You should have daze as a cantrip if your enchantment focused. Very helpful for when you don't want to get real close to use your laughing touch.
Plus since you're enchantment focused there'll be many situtations where you'll be basically useless. Daze helps with that somewhat.
Not sure what the other party members are making, but there's only 4 players so far...
Would taking magical lineage for hideous laughter really be a good choice though? Considering it would get replaced by higher level enchantment spells in the future. I was thinking it might be good to take something like mage armor for extend spell.
Problem with daze is that it only affects humanoids of 4 HD or less?
Sleep also only affects creatures of 4HD or less.
In my experience, hideous laughter stays useful all the way through. An enemy must make two saves- the second costing a full-round action- or else be out of the fight for 1 round per level. When Sleep and Deep Slumber and so on cap out, Hideous Laughter will stand by you. Applying magical lineage means you can have a Persistent Hideous Laughter as a 3rd level spell, which is quite decent.
Yea, but i can swap sleep out at 4th level but not daze (well i could but it wouldnt make much sense to swap daze).
Isnt the problem with relying on hideous laughter at higher levels the lower save DC? (Unless the plan is to rely on persistent hideous laughter, i wonder what the odds are of that compared to just using a higher level spell...)
Edit : Does gifted adept allow you to cast a spell above your CL?
That is an issue with Hideous Laughter, but good enchantment spells are hard to find and Hideous Laughter does the job nicely. Particularly if you pick up Heighten Metamagic.
Keep in mind that Hideous Laughter grants the target a +4 bonus on the save if they are a different type to you.
And yes, gifted adept lets you do this, but keep in mind this doesn't impact on the DC.
I recommend taking serpentine bloodline, you can enchant much more that way. Then take spell focus necromancy and threnodic spell at level 6 and you even can enchant undead.
Question wrote: I was thinking of doing a kitsune sorc with the fey blood line (similar to http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2opcd?So-Kitsune-Sorcerer). Can anyone provide some advice for spell/skill selection? Here you go...
Hmm...serpentine seems it would have less useful spells though?
Wiggz : great idea with keeper of the veil...but why did you take oracle? For the healing?
Edit : Can anyone recommend what to buy? Apparently we are pirates shipwrecked on an island, and we start with 500 gp. Unfortunately i have a strength score of 5 (GM wanted us to use a array, lowest score being 7), so that doesn't give me a lot of carrying room...
Question wrote: Wiggz : great idea with keeper of the veil...but why did you take oracle? For the healing? I took Oracle for a bit of healing and for the Friends of Animals mystery which gives my Animal Companion a bonus to saves equal to my Charisma.
Do you get that Keeper of the Veil works with Realistic Likeness to allow you to appear as any human whenever you like? And that I'm taking the Wild-blooded version of the Fey Bloodline (Sylvan) which allows me to have an Animal Companion - very useful against all of those things that are immune to enchantment-type spells.
Hmm, i see. Not sure how useful realistic likeness will be in this campaign...getting shipwrecked on an island doesn't seem like ti would leave much opportunities to disguise as a specific human.
Okay, the DM just said this is going to be a dungeon crawl...so i guess stuff like bluff and disguise won't be that useful.
Question wrote: Okay, the DM just said this is going to be a dungeon crawl...so i guess stuff like bluff and disguise won't be that useful. You might want to steer away from enchanter-type caster altogether then. Some much better options out there for a dungeon crawl. Charm Person loses a lot of its effectiveness when there aren't any... persons... to be charmed.
Note that Charm Person is a Charm spell and thus will not be affected by the DC bonus from the Fey bloodline.
GM Arkwright wrote: Note that Charm Person is a Charm spell and thus will not be affected by the DC bonus from the Fey bloodline. If he goes Sylvan (which he should) he wouldn't get that bonus anyway. The racial bonus, feat bonuses and the Kitsune favored class option should be more than enough.
I'm with Damo though - for a straight dungeon crawl there are much better options out there.
I thought the main point of enchanting was to disable enemies, not necessarilly to charm people?
Am currently playing a Visionary/Dream Spun bloodline Kitsune Enchantment focussed Sorcerer. Why? Because I always try to have a bit of utility to back up when my main strength isn't relevant (Enchantment magic) and also the ability to rest 1 hour to recover spells in a dungeon is priceless in our games (bad guys don't just let you rest!)
Yes sleep has a 4hd limit (but it's still the best first level spell - at low levels period! And it stays relevant for a lot longer than you think as a first level spell slot - lets put things in perspective here.) Plus there are higher level sleep spells - as well as the Eye of Somnus ability (a free symbol of sleep once you have finished scouting with your wizard eye!) Oh, and then there are some great initiative bonuses and divination abilities (yes, I know that means work for the DM...)
In short my Kitsune is more than a 1 trick pony and whilst +2 on Compulsions might look nice let me assure you my Enchantment DCs are very high (they were 18+ with a first level spell at first level) and my other save dcs not too shabby either.
The temptation may be to create a Sorcerer that 'maxes out' in a hypothetical sense - but look beyond just your main strength and have a back up utility function too would be my advice.
- And re: the Charm person post - Charm Monster?
Well looking at my current sheet, i have a DC of 19 for enchantment spells.
If i go Sylvan, will the animal companion be useful or will it be really squishy at -3 effective level?
Actually come to think of it, since we are on a island, enchantment probably won't work that well because the encounters are going to be more monster than humanoid....
If i drop the enchantment theme, what blood lines would you suggest? Or should i just make a wizard?
I would advocate with a Kitsune you stick to enchantment (it is what makes them really special - a 20th level Kitsune Sorcerer's Enchantment DC's can be +6 better than anyone elses - that is massive).
Look at what you have in the party and their respective strengths, make Enchantment your optimised offensive school but have other options too (buffing or blasting) that don't duplicate another pc.
Spells like sleep still work on monsters of less than 4 hd but being able to speak a lot of languages is necessary too to utilise some of your spells. But enchantment (a bit like Illusion) does require you be more imaginative with your spells than a straight blaster/summoner type.
Question wrote: Well looking at my current sheet, i have a DC of 19 for enchantment spells.
If i go Sylvan, will the animal companion be useful or will it be really squishy at -3 effective level?
Actually come to think of it, since we are on a island, enchantment probably won't work that well because the encounters are going to be more monster than humanoid....
If i drop the enchantment theme, what blood lines would you suggest? Or should i just make a wizard?
The feat Boon Companion will make it a full level Animal Companion. Its an absolute life-saver at low levels - if you have a party full of melee who are willing to stay close and keep you safetypes it might not be as necessary, but we don't know the rest of your party composition.
And a Sylvan Bloodline Kitsune Sorcerer is viable as a dungeon crawl character, I didn't mean to say he wasn't, only that other options might be better. The power of Charm depends a lot on how your GM chooses to interpret it, and can vary from 'meh' to overwhelming...
I ran this exact character through Rise of the Runelords and she was devastatingly effective, but that AP was heavy on things like human foes, goblins, ogres and giants. I think you'll be fine as long as you understand the strengths - and limitations - of your concept.
I've got an alternate build to show you if you think you're going to ditch Realistic Likeness which would be understandable.
How would an enchanter overcome language or monster type issues?
Update : It looks like the current party is now a fighter (or ranger), rogue and bard.
My advice would be a Kitsune Life Oracle who's spell choices are focused on Enchantments. The plus side being that a number of Cleric Enchantment spells are not Language dependent, and you get to heal like a boss. You lose some of the mass control of the Sorceror list, but you really get to play up your strengths. Plus, with decent gear, you can off tank by pumping your AC up without sacrificing your casting.
I find that the oracle curse list is really unbalanced though. Haunted gives you free spells with nearly no drawbacks...and compare it to stuff like lame or deaf.
None of my replies are showing in this thread...testing 1 2 3
Okay...so can anyone explain how you get past the language/monster type problems for a enchanter?
Linguistics ranks give you a language known and charm monster works on most intelligent monsters - otherwise know a few buffs and blasts as well as the enchantment.
A sorc doesn't really have skill points to dump into linguistics though. Maybe if you are a human...
I accept Sorcerers don't have many skill points but if you are focussing on enchantment then communication is essential in the case of spells where you get to issue instructions (e.g. Quest/Geas, dominate, charm, etc). What to lose? - Depends, but I never bother with Use Magic Device unless I am prepared to max it - likewise Bluff is usually covered by the party rogue and knowledges by the Wizard/Cleric.
Revisitng this idea. Our campaign has now switched to the kingmaker adventurer path, and everyone is starting at level 1. Would an enchanter sorc be a good idea for it?
I have reason to believe that a serpentine sorcerer could be quite good there. I don´t want to spoiler anything, but you start in a forest region (which means many possibilities for you to enchant foes no one else could enchant then probably) and besides many fights during the whole story arc, there should be plenty of social occasions....
Yea, but im trying to figure out how to make full use of charm spells in social situations.
Obviously standing there and casting charm person would fail hard as it would be pretty obvious to everyone around you.
Is there any way to use charm spells without triggering hostility then?
Without adding silent/still spell metamagic feats...
A bard can combine spell-casting and bard-song, and disguise it that way.
There is an extra feat for that, spellsong or harmonious spell i think. Also hypnotism is a nice spell there. Or use fascinate with lingering performance, then cast a spell. Or metamagic still spell.
Also charm spells have a range, you can hide and cast.
As far as i remember there is also a feat that lets you disguise your spells as other spells with bluff.
Spellsong requires the bardic performance feature unfortunately.
You know how the stereotypical scenario of a enchanter who is attacked by bandits and charms them all to get out of it? The strangest thing is that you simply can't do that in pathfinder without stacking silent/still spell for a very high level charm spells. You can't charm shopkeepers to give you a discount, or any of the other popular scenarios.
Im not even sure what happens when the charm spell wears off. Does the target know he was influenced by a magical effect? Does he realise you charmed him? Etc, etc...
Skill points...this looks to be a pretty high powered campaign, the DM wants us to use anywhere from a 35-45 point buy depending on player count. I could probably get away with a 14 in int, but that still leaves me only 4 skill points per level.
Im probably going to max out knowledge arcana, nature, put 1 point in disguise (trait made it a class skill), bluff/diplomacy on alternate levels. Does this sound like a good idea? Or should i just put 1 point each in bluff/diplomacy and then dump as many points as i can get into linguistics?
Spells, i guess i will go with read/detect magic, presdigation, open/close as cantrips, and charm person/sleep for my 1st level spells.
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