Time for another Planar Binding question.
You've bound an outsider in an inward-facing Magic Circle, with a warding diagram, using Planar Binding. You decide you want to improve your chances against the outsider in the charisma-test, so you decide to cast Geas on it. You cast Geas on the outsider and tell it "Dance outside the diagram, for a minute".
This order is given as part of the Geas, but can giving this order count as your attempt to compel a service from the bound creature, via the Planar Binding? If you did not intend to compel a service from it, but just wanted to weaken its ability to resist, once you got around to compelling the service, does casting Geas on the bound creature force the situation?
My first thought was "no", since Geas and Planar Binding are two different spells and should be resolved individually. However I don't know if this view is supported by the rules. Can anyone clarify this?
Thanks in advance.
-Nearyn
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How does telling the outsider to dance outside the circle improve your chances on the opposed charisma check?
First, the outsider is incapable of leaving the circle, even if you order it to do so.
Second, if the outsider were to leave the circle there's no bonus to you.
Closest rule I can find to what you might be thinking is: "If the creature tries a Charisma check to break free of the trap (see the lesser planar binding spell), the DC increases by 5."
Which says that as long as the circle is active it's harder for the outsider to break free during the opposed Cha check, but doesn't grant any benefit to you if the outsider leaves the circle (and in fact if the outsider is able to leave the circle, you've lost the bonus the circle gives).
@Weirdo:
Geasing the outsider to dance outside the circle helps me because he is prevented from doing so(he cannot leave the circle). This means that every 24 hours, he takes a -3 penalty on all ability scores (including charisma :D ), to a maximum of -12, and no less that 1.
So if I Geas the outsider to dance outside the circle and wait, his charisma will lower, meaning I have a better chance against him when I try to compel him to perform a service. That is the idea, anyway.
Do you understand? :)
My question is if the Geas and Planar Binding are resolved seperately, or if the instructions overlap.
@Sesharan: That is not what I am asking for rules clarification for :)
Why would they overlap?
I think that you are overthinking things.
@Leo1925: Call it research ;)
I totally agree that they would not overlap, and that each spell should be resolved seperately, but I just wanted to see if there was a rule I could support my weight on.
Seriously, I don't know.
What is written in Planar binding :
This process can be repeated until the creature promises to serve, until it breaks free, or until you decide to get rid of it by means of some other spell
In my opinion, it is refering to spells like Banishment/Dismissal, but it is unclear.
I think... I would allow the use of Geas/Dominate/Suggestion/whatever you like, without breaking the diagram. If you used Dominate or Suggestion (or a Geas useful to you), the diagram can be messed with (by putting some straw onto it for example) to allow the creature to leave the place to accomplish its duty.
I've heard that and similar Binding/Geas combo ideas several times before. A GM I play with brushed it away when another player attempted it, based on the following sentence in the spell text for Lesser Geas (it's inherited by Geas/Quest):
"A lesser geas places a magical command on a creature to carry out some service or to refrain from some action or course of activity, as desired by you."
His argument (paraphrasing): "If you don't really desire the creature to do what you ask of it through these spells, the spells don't take. And you obviously don't desire it to perform the task, because what you really want is for the creature to lose its charisma bonus."
Sounds like a good way to get rid of that bit of cheese.
You also have the minor detail of overcoming SR and the creature failing its saving throw with that geas/quest. If you desire that the creature dance outside the circle, then you are voluntarily dismissing the circle's effect.
So, IMO, you have to release the creature (dismissing the circle) and punch the geas/quest through on consecutive rounds or, preferably, quicken the geas/quest on the same round ... and pray that the creature blows its Will saving throw, assuming you beat the SR.
Sounds pretty risky to me. ;)
EDIT: Aren't there other spells specifically geared for softening up bound creatures?
@Turin: Of course, rules are rules :)
Which is why I am trying to see if there is any basis for believing the two spells can trigger at the same command, by the rules.
If you desire that the creature dance outside the circle, then you are voluntarily dismissing the circle's effect.
I don't see why... The circle effect is one-sided : it affects only the trapped creature, not the caster, isn't it ?
If you desire that the creature dance outside the circle, then you are voluntarily dismissing the circle's effect
Planar Binding is not dismissable. Neither is Magic Circle