| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I was looking up this weapon, it mentions how it holds a magazine of 5 bolts. and after firing one, another can be put into place with the reloading lever as a free action.
as I understand this, it's possible to unload the intire magazine of bolts in one attack round. seeing as how the reloading lever is a free action and honestly, pullung a trigger isn't a action at all.
I can understand that attack roll penalties would be applied in this case of fireing multiple bolts in one round. but here is why I'm trying to varifiy
my roommate (who seems to think he knows everything about the mechanitcs of pathfinder) says that, there's no way you could fire all 5 in one round if your didn't have the attack base for multiple attacks.
thats what the repeating cross bow is made for, fireing bolts in rapid succesion. I figure that needing a higher attack base is just so you can hit more accuratly rather then needing it to take multiple hits with this wepon.
may I get clearification please? thank you
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The repeating crossbow is not an automatic assault rifle. Your friend is correct. Good advice question, flagged to be moved.
who said anthing about an assault rifle? besidees it's not a question of who is right it's a question of how it works.
@Mage: I apprciate your detailed post, Honestly i'm not into those cheeze ball builds where you abuse the %#&@ out of a weapon, feat or what not. I build my guys around a concept.
my room mate on the other hand...will abuse a weapon/feat/ w/e until it rolls over and dies. he built a flurry of manuvers monk and took vicious stomp, so all he does is trip/stomp/rinse/repeat.
while where are talking about game mechanics and the assault rifle popped up. what feeats apply to fire arms? I know rapid reload and precise shot do.
who said anthing about an assault rifle? besidees it's not a question of who is right it's a question of how it works.
Yes...but by saying your friend is correct he is saying that your friend's explanation IS how it works.
If your roommate builds characters for optimization then good for him...its not abuse to take a FoM monk and VS (hopefully with greater trip as well), and try to trip people. If that what his character is built to do then he is doing it right.
It's a free action to draw an arrow for a bow... Sounds like this item brings you in line with a bow and not giving you some form of burst attack.
Sounds like it eliminates the feat tax of rapid reload... Until your cartridge expires.
|
It's a free action to draw an arrow for a bow... Sounds like this item brings you in line with a bow and not giving you some form of burst attack.
Sounds like it eliminates the feat tax of rapid reload... Until your cartridge expires.
At Base Attack Bonus +16 or higher, with Rapid Shot, you'll be changing clips every other round. Still, averaging 2.5 shots per round is better than one per round.
With only two shots per round (BAB +6, less with Rapid Shot), you get five shots over three rounds, followed by a full round of reloading, making it an average of 1.25 attacks per round. If you reload after four shots, that increases to an average of 1.33 shots per round.
With three shots per round, you average 1.67 shots per round; you get the same with four shots per round (with the added flexibility of getting to take an actual move action in there), or an average of 2 shots per round if you reload every other round.
Then again, once you take Rapid Reload, you can full attack with a normal light crossbow at will, meaning you get ALL of your attacks every round.
In my opinion, if you're going light crossbow, you're better off just taking Rapid Reload, rather than taking the exotic weapon proficiency needed for a repeater. If you want the larger damage die and range increment of the heavy crossbow, the repeater's definitely worth the feat to pick up proficiency.
Remember, though, for only one feat more, you can get full attacks every round with a heavy crossbow, without having to deal with magzines, bolts, and oddball costs.
Rapid Reload (Heavy Crossbow)
Crossbow Mastery (APG)
As a matter of fact, that route, if you can afford the feat tax, is probably one of the better ways to go, since it not only reduces the reload time to a free action, but also turns the reload into an action which does not provoke AoOs anymore.
|
technically speaking, while your character could shoot 5 bolts in one round, he couldnt do so effectively. Meaning that his shots would go so wide as to miss the large side of the barn. You could shoot one or two bolts (with the right feat) with no problem but after that, to respect the established rules, every hit attempt would unexplainedly miss.
I have player in my game with a repeater crossbow. With the help of the wizard, he had a special cartridge that holds more bolts made (think quiver of elona), putting him on par with regular archers
|
To be clear... with the Repeating Crossbow you are removing the reload limitation (at least until the magazine is empty) - as "reloads" are a free action (until the magazine is empty). Thus, you can get all of your iterative attacks, but only if your BAB is high enough, you have the correct feat(s) (i.e, Rapid Shot), etc. You don't get extra attacks per round if you do not otherwise qualify for them.
As for firearms, pretty much all ranged attack feats do apply. For example, you can get Point Blank, Precise Shot, Far Shot, Deadly Aim, Snap Shot, etc..
I know some of what I stated here was repeated, but thought it should be made more clear. Hopefully I did that.
@ Silbeg and Mage: Thanks, I prefer detailed posts to anything. saying someone or something is wrong or right doesn't help anyone understand 'why'. Thanks for taking the time to clearify .
@Drakkiel: I'm not interested in who is wrong or right I'm interesting in 'WHY' it is so. Honestly my roomate allways gets his panties in a twist whenever I come up with an idea.
his last argument, when I made a weapon adept monk and focused on the temple sword was "you can't use a temple sword and use a -2/-2 it has to be a -4/-4 because it's not a light weapon!!!" he griped about this for 2 days and kept telling me how my monk sucked and the monk themselves are gimmicky and they all suck.
after I played a game with my monk then he decided to make his own monk around the VS feat. and yes it is a cheese ball character because he gets pissed off and mad whnever he can't trip/stomp something. he carried on about how a swarm of rats and bats was, in his words "retarted", and just some dumb idea the game designers made up just to be annoying.
Then when he fought air elementals, lol, he was furious because he was so useless, unable to trip and stomp air. LAWL
I mean honestly if he wants to make a FOM monk, fine. it's a archetype. I just get tired of him bad mouthing everythign and everyone thats different then his stuff.
In short, reloading becomes a free action, but actually firing the crossbow is not, and still follows the regular attack rules.
The regular attack rules being:
Firing once as a standard action.
Or
Firing multiple times as a full attack action, getting a maximum of one attack per multiple of 5 BAB, or fraction thereof. So you start with one attack, get a second when your BAB hits +6, a third at +11, and so on.
Special feats and other abilities like Rapid Shot may modify this.
As far as monks go, they are possibly more powerful in Pathfinder than they ever have been in the history of D&D, mainly because so many damn things stack or add to monk attacks. But they certainly have their limitations, like any other class.
-j
and honestly, pullung a trigger isn't a action at all.
The part of your OP that I quoted here is where you are, mechanically speaking, wrong.
Pulling a trigger IS an action. It's an attack. Most people only get one attack per round. Making an attack requires picking a target, aiming, anticipating how that target is moving, leading him if necessary, looking for a weak spot in his armor, etc. Theoretically, in real life, in a 6-second round, I could hit a tree a half dozen times with a dagger, give or take, but that's just flailing away, making an attack against a moving defensive target is a whole other thing.
Higher level (higher BAB) combatants get extra attacks. Spells like Haste and feats like Rapid Shot can give extra attacks. Taking all these things into consideration tells you how many attacks you are allowed to make. You cannot make more attacks than this number (but you can choose to make fewer attacks if you wish).
Having a mechanic that lets you reload your crossbow as a free action does NOT change the maximum number of attacks you are allowed to make.
and honestly, pullung a trigger isn't a action at all.
The part of your OP that I quoted here is where you are, mechanically speaking, wrong.
Pulling a trigger IS an action. It's an attack. Most people only get one attack per round. Making an attack requires picking a target, aiming, anticipating how that target is moving, leading him if necessary, looking for a weak spot in his armor, etc. Theoretically, in real life, in a 6-second round, I could hit a tree a half dozen times with a dagger, give or take, but that's just flailing away, making an attack against a moving defensive target is a whole other thing.
Higher level (higher BAB) combatants get extra attacks. Spells like Haste and feats like Rapid Shot can give extra attacks. Taking all these things into consideration tells you how many attacks you are allowed to make. You cannot make more attacks than this number (but you can choose to make fewer attacks if you wish).
Having a mechanic that lets you reload your crossbow as a free action does NOT change the maximum number of attacks you are allowed to make.
um...this fact was noted several posts ago...
@Drakkiel: I'm not interested in who is wrong or right I'm interesting in 'WHY' it is so. Honestly my roomate allways gets his panties in a twist whenever I come up with an idea.
ok...but according to
my roommate (who seems to think he knows everything about the mechanitcs of pathfinder) says that, there's no way you could fire all 5 in one round if your didn't have the attack base for multiple attacks.
thats exactly what your roomate did...he told you WHY you were wrong? my point was that you came off quite rude when you said " besidees it's not a question of who is right it's a question of how it works."....when by saying your roomate was right it gave you the answer of how it works and why
I understand you wanting a more detailed post but some people take the "teach a man to fish" route and try to lead you to your answer...no reason to come off rude though
I have been rude on these forums myself...but usually come back quickly with an honest apology
thats exactly what your roomate did...he told you WHY you were wrong? my point was that you came off quite rude when you said " besidees it's not a question of who is right it's a question of how it works."....when by saying your roomate was right it gave you the answer of how it works and why
no, no he didn't. he told me how he -thinks- it works. And often times he's been wrong because, like I said before, he always protests againest any idea or character I make. he carried on because I made a Controled rage barb who used a long bow.
Who ever said "attacking/ fireing the trigger is a standard action even though reloading is a free action" that is what I was looking for.
I think your dwelling too hard on my words in this case. I mean...Came of rude? ....really? You can't interpret tone or feeling when it's written online. I don't like to use the response "it's how you choose to take it." but...what else is there?
I am sorry you took it the wrong way and I am sorry if that misunderstanding hurt your feelings.
Again...you are being rude by assuming that I'm some sensitive person that dwells too hard on your words...they came off rude to me, if they were not meant that way the proper response would be to clarify your intent and nothing else...not continue to attempt to insult.
You can interpret rudeness when it's written online. If I tell you that you're retarded and are being a whiny little baby because "insert reason"...that would clearly be rude would it not? (btw not saying that about you at all sir, just an example). <--clarification
You are correct in saying "it's how you choose to take it", I did 'choose' to take it that way I guess however being rude in return to me was not the response you should have made, I would have apologized to you in a similar situation and clarified that I meant no rudeness by it. Even now after I choose to see your above post as a direct insult at me, I will apologize for apparently reading way too far into words that could never be taken by anyone as rude since they clearly were not in anyway.
[sarcasm]YOUR SO MEAN KRODJIN!![/sarcasm]