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I couldn't find a ruling or if this had come up in a prior thread in the rules forums. I was wondering what the consensus was on this. The block for Efficient Quiver states that the smallest compartment: can contain up to 60 objects of the same general size and shape as an arrow. Could I store 60 scrolls in this slot, or a combination of scrolls and wands or would only wands fit in here?
I know there are two more compartments, one for 18 javelin like shapes and another for 6 bow like shapes, but my questions is wondering about the 60 objects slot.
I'd love to be able to carry around that many scrolls but I think the consensus will be wands for the first, scrolls for the second and scrolls again for the third.
What do you guys think?
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Ahh I am glad you guys are of the same general mind as I was on this.
Also keep in mind that just having it in the quiver doesn't allow you to draw it as a free action; it still takes as long as "normal".
Unfortunate but true, my goal here was to find a better way to store wands and scrolls than a bag holding. Its a bit cheaper as well.
Also, note that it does not say that items that are not the shape of a wand can not go in the compartment. When I read the description, I read it to give you a general ideal of the size of the compartment. Therefore, if you can fit 60 arrows in there, fitting 20 scrolls or 10 numchucks should be doable.
Ah okay that's a good way of thinking about it. 20 scrolls sounds good and plenty fine by me, a lot better than a scroll tube which can hold four.
Any reason you can't keep your scrolls in a Handy Haversack? It would still be a move action to draw them, but at least you wouldn't provoke AoOs.
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Any reason you can't keep your scrolls in a Handy Haversack? It would still be a move action to draw them, but at least you wouldn't provoke AoOs.
I was looking for a cheaper method than a handy haversack. Also I'm not sure why retrieving an item from a quiver provokes attacks of opportunity? If that's the case I had no idea otherwise I think I'm understanding you wrong.
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my goal here was to find a better way to store wands and scrolls than a bag holding.The Handy Haversack was made for this.
A less expensive alternative is the bandoleer. It can hold 8 objects (potions, scrolls, wands, and similar size) that are easy to reach (move action only to grab, although causes AOO that the haversack negates). I think you can wear two of these.
I guess I didn't realize retrieving an item from a quiver caused an attack of opportunity, if that's the case I guess my only option is to purchase a handy haversack.
If you want to get really unnecessarily technical just get special cases that are different shapes.
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Drawing a weapon or weapon like objects does not provoke attacks of opportunity and can take various amounts of time depending on your BAB. While retrieving a stored item is a move action that provokes.
That being the case I personally would rule it as retrieving a stored item depending on weather or not you would need to search through your various scroll to find the right one. If you have 20 different scrolls and need to find a specific one it would likely provoke and would take at least the move action. On the other hand if it was 20 of the same scroll I would rule it like drawing a weapon.
If it is something that is really important to you. Maybe ask your GM about adding an effect similar to the Handy Haversack to your Efficient Quiver. Having a wizard with a bag of scrolls seems pretty iconic and I can't see an issue with it.
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Drawing a weapon or weapon like objects does not provoke attacks of opportunity and can take various amounts of time depending on your BAB. While retrieving a stored item is a move action that provokes.
That being the case I personally would rule it as retrieving a stored item depending on weather or not you would need to search through your various scroll to find the right one. If you have 20 different scrolls and need to find a specific one it would likely provoke and would take at least the move action. On the other hand if it was 20 of the same scroll I would rule it like drawing a weapon.
If it is something that is really important to you. Maybe ask your GM about adding an effect similar to the Handy Haversack to your Efficient Quiver. Having a wizard with a bag of scrolls seems pretty iconic and I can't see an issue with it.
I like your style of thought on this and I find myself agreeing with you more and more. It would be silly to only have the same kind of wand in that slot and wasn't my intention but I can see how that'd be the only logical course for being able to draw the correct one as a weapon and with the appropriate action.
just random ideas
first, haversacks, bags of holding, bandoliers of junk cojuration etc. If you want to miraculously have it appear at the snap of your fingers, think about GLOVES OF PRESTIDIGITATION. In paleoPathFinder parlence, you would PALM and PRESENT. Really there should be a way to do this, if you work with your GM.
Also, get a haversack or other carry device for everyone in the party. If y'all dunt wanna make it, get a discount. Heel, jus buy a dozun of dem suckers and kep tha spahrs!
Seriously, if you buy a half dozen, you should get a 15 to 20% discount.
Let's see . . . other random ideas.
OK, this being nit picky. I found the dialog about what can and can't go into a ROPE TRICK spell very tiresome. So I had Tenser (of Greyhawk) write one. It allows you to carry the item into the rope trick, you just can't open it. Enough space for double the usual number of people (24) and each haversack, bag of holding, efficient quiver, bandolier, hat pin, etc would count as one space. Really if a party has more than 4 devices per person, you need to re-evaluate!
here is the item version . . .bear in mind that Tenser is an ArchMage.
Tenser’s Tricky Rope Aura: none
Slot: none Price: 3000 Weight: 5 pounds
This item appears to be a stout 25’rope braided of unusual and unidentifiable fibers [I was watching Deadliest Catch and thought of synthetic cables of dyeena they use on the crab pot hoist]. It does not radiate magic [A lot of my magic items do not radiate magic because they have MAGIC AURA suppressing it]. On command, the rope knots itself and flies up to 20’ into the air. It creates an extra dimensional rope trick space and is enchanted to accept both extra dimensional spaces (like bags of holding, portable holes, haversacks, quivers, bandoliers, and any other such crap) and people. While in the extra dimensional space, you can’t access other extra dimensions. You may pull the rope in[to the extradimensional space]. It has room for 24 people or spaces and is usable at need (24 hrs per day). The temperature is comfortable and although not spacious, allows one to stand and stretch or lay down comfortably. There are NO bathroom facilities! It is best if you go down the rope and do your business outside the space. The walls have a hardness of 5 and 10 hp. Damaging the walls to 0 hp will cause the space to rupture and cast the occupants, with all their gear, into the Astral Plane. Construction Requirements: Craft Wondrous Item, Animate Rope, Improved Rope Trick [Tenser hasn't shared this so far], Magic Aura.
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Is your aim to draw the wand or scroll as a free action similar to drawing ammunition?
Alas, you can't. Ammunition has special rules for drawing them.
You can draw a wand as part of a move action (with +1 BAB), similar to drawing a normal weapon. This does not provoke an AOO if you have it easily accessed like a typical weapon.
This doesn't take any special item to allow you to do so. It's just part of your "normal" gear (like an adventuring outfit). How many wands can you have in this fashion? Well, how many daggers do people allow to be carried? Don't go too overboard on them and you should be fine.
Quick Draw won't make this a free action like drawing a weapon (I don't know why).
Kinda contradictory there it seems...
This is a little more clear.
Quick Draw (Combat)
You can draw weapons faster than most.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action. You can draw a hidden weapon (see the Sleight of Hand skill) as a move action.
A character who has selected this feat may throw weapons at his full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a bow).
Alchemical items, potions, scrolls, and wands cannot be drawn quickly using this feat.
Normal: Without this feat, you may draw a weapon as a move action, or (if your base attack bonus is +1 or higher) as a free action as part of movement. Without this feat, you can draw a hidden weapon as a standard action.
I haven't found anything yet that lets you Quick Draw anything other than an actual weapon. Now, Alchemical Weapons is a little fuzzy to me. It would seem to me that many people would want to be able to toss multiple flasks if they had a bandoleer and Quick Draw... but as you said, "Quick Draw won't make this a free action like drawing a weapon, and I don't know why".
As others have noted, if this is of particular interest to you speak with your DM. The infinite scroll case in 3.5 did what you wanted - and did a few other things. Check the MIC.
The Quiver is generally assumed only to take items of the same size and shape as arrows, javelins or spears/staves/bows.
This is because the capacity of the quiver is considerably HIGHER then any other item of its size.
The example I like to use is hollow tubes made to store coins.
18 Javelin sized tubes 3' long, with 10 coins to the inch, is 360x18 coins of storage, or 6,480 gp.
6 6' long tubes that also store coins is another 3,240 gp, for a grand total of 9,780 gp of storage space. All told, you're going to be at 10,000 gp, which breaks down to 200 lbs, and the Quiver doesn't gain any weight, and you can grab what you want instantly, much like an HHH.
The smallest size bag of holding weighs 15 lbs, holds 250 lbs, and is 2500 gp vs the quiver here being 1800 gp and 2 lbs. IF you go 15 coins to the inch, then the Quiver actually carries 300 lbs with no trouble.
So, abiding by the shape/size limitation is key to how the quiver functions.
I don't, in any event, think you can put a scroll in there. The limit is very specific to shapes and sizes of stuff, and it's entirely possible that putting just one scroll in there might be too much.
NOW...if you were to wrap each scroll tightly around a slender stick, and stick THOSE in the quiver, I think you have a way around the limit. I'd judge that no worse then the notoriously thick crossbow bolts if done carefully.
You could probably use the javelin-sized scroll-sticks to wrap 3 scrolls around without a problem, but at that point you're better off using them to hold coins weightlessly.
==Aelryinth