Hello SHRH,
I have a particularly conservative GM who tends to take the side of underpowered with things home-brewed. This has been a bit of an issue in the past, but he has been nice enough to continue listening to my requests.
I need some feedback on this idea before I present it to my GM and any help in balancing it would be great.
I took the idea of everything the normal summon monster class ability did and re-worked it for transmutation spells of the same level.
Summon Monster originally was a full round, the ability made it a standard action, huge jump in action economy as the monsters could then act in THAT round. So I basically quickened the spells that are standard action to a swift action.
Summon Monster spells have a large variety of options, so I gave 2-3 spells to choose from to mitigate this.
I kept all the same restrictions as per summon monster plus added an additional weakness revolving around the outsider type and taking additional damage, enemies getting higher bonus to hit, etc.
So any feed back to help this become more balanced would be great.
Thanks
-Hexen
Given the relative power of the Synthesist fused Eidolon I would wonder why anyone would preferentially go with the transmutation spells. for example at level 13
you get to be a huge elemental which gives a number of good bonuses on average about +10 added to physical abilities, a movement mode 2 slam attacks and immunity to a number of things and DR 5/- for 13 minutes.
or
you can have your Eidolon on and be huge which gives +10 added to physical abilities, ( with a pretty good starting base ) plus another +5 to both Strength and Dexterity, + 2 additional ability points, min 73 bonus hit points, max 5 attacks and multi attack, and 7 extra points to get various abilities (flying, weapons, DR, extra damage etc) and the addition of the evolutionary surge spell to get extra abilities on the fly.
There is a flexibility involved in the transmutation spells but I don't think it is enough. There is also an issue of Multi Ability Dependence with the spell version as it only increases your abilities Eidolons start out as good fighters and do not need the mental stats.
I think the class you are trying to make is a good idea. But it sems to be you are just making a character with two different fused Eidolons. I think it would probably be better to boost up the transformations and dump the Eidolon or make a Druid/Synthesist Hybrid where you use a shape change mechanic with evolutions.
My 2 cents worth
Given the relative power of the Synthesist fused Eidolon I would wonder why anyone would preferentially go with the transmutation spells. for example at level 13
you get to be a huge elemental which gives a number of good bonuses on average about +10 added to physical abilities, a movement mode 2 slam attacks and immunity to a number of things and DR 5/- for 13 minutes.
or
you can have your Eidolon on and be huge which gives +10 added to physical abilities, ( with a pretty good starting base ) plus another +5 to both Strength and Dexterity, + 2 additional ability points, min 73 bonus hit points, max 5 attacks and multi attack, and 7 extra points to get various abilities (flying, weapons, DR, extra damage etc) and the addition of the evolutionary surge spell to get extra abilities on the fly.
There is a flexibility involved in the transmutation spells but I don't think it is enough. There is also an issue of Multi Ability Dependence with the spell version as it only increases your abilities Eidolons start out as good fighters and do not need the mental stats.
I think the class you are trying to make is a good idea. But it sems to be you are just making a character with two different fused Eidolons. I think it would probably be better to boost up the transformations and dump the Eidolon or make a Druid/Synthesist Hybrid where you use a shape change mechanic with evolutions.
My 2 cents worth
Esthetics mostly, feat picking is the secondary. Your fusing with your eidolon possibly tapping into a higher form in some esthetic, you have the ability to tap into a sub form or have a lesser connection with a sub form. On the feat side, you are taking primarily melee feats which you loose almost total access to when you lose your eidolon.
So would it be better if I replace the summon spells with a transmutation spell 1 level lower, would that be better in making the eidolon more prominent as it should be? Also is it balanced as is in the trade?
Thanks much for your 2 cent,
-Hexen
Why not use the spells you have selected with the mechanism you have suggested but use them at the same time like a super charged suit I don't think that would be over balanced the major problem with the summoner is actions, if you are just boosting the fused eidolon you are not getting more actions. An elemental eidolon would be excellent to play. The spell duration will stop it from being overpowered especially if it is one at a time.
I would try to find different name for that alternate class - channeler sounds like class focusing on channel energy. Invoker perhaps? Binder?
I would try to find different name for that alternate class - channeler sounds like class focusing on channel energy. Invoker perhaps? Binder?
Good suggestions, name was WIP.
Why not use the spells you have selected with the mechanism you have suggested but use them at the same time like a super charged suit I don't think that would be over balanced the major problem with the summoner is actions, if you are just boosting the fused eidolon you are not getting more actions. An elemental eidolon would be excellent to play. The spell duration will stop it from being overpowered especially if it is one at a time.
Nah, that would be OP in my opinion and definitely in the GM's opinion.
This is a 2nd option, a backup plan for when you can't access your eidolon, or if your eidolon doesn't do what you need it to.-Hexen
Going to try Fuser for now. Not sure if I like this one ether.
Yeah Invoker is probably the next best one. The only problem is it a little too close to evocation which is a completely different spell type.
Invoker is not suited to this concept. One who invokes does not go all mighty endorphin power strangers or turn into a rubber monster suit wearing melee beastie.
You invoke with but a word of Power ... i.e., an Invoker in PF should be those who use Words of Power, at least in my opinion.
Check out the 1e write ups on the schools of magic. Evocation is a condensed form of evocation/invocation. A few early spells were invocations, not evocations as I recall, many of which retained that distinction in 2e.
A channeler "channels the powers of spirits" as one of its primary word definitions. I would view a channeler as one who channels the capabilities of their affiliated alignment in PF terms. Neutrals channel aeons, CE channel demons, NE channel daemons, LE channel devils, NG channel angels, LG channel archons and so forth. Alignment-based distinctions would be an integral part of this kind of channeler.
So, as a summoner variant, your eidolon "suit" and your spell-like abilities change to match a suite of goodies based on your character's alignment. If your channeler changes alignment, so does your suite.
Thoughts?
Also there's already an Invoker 3PP class and the crossover name might get confusing if a group uses both. It's a reskinned, revamped 3.5 Warlock.
Yeah going back to Channeler.
Took your advice on the alignment of outsider suggestion Mr. Mad.
;-)
With all said and done, what about the power level of this alternate class?
Too strong, just right, or too weak?
Still hammering out a full base class write up for the alignment-based Channeler that I suggested above.
Only have the spell lists to work out. twitch, drool, twitch
Still hammering out a full base class write up for the alignment-based Channeler that I suggested above.
Only have the spell lists to work out. twitch, drool, twitch
...... Okay. Spell list shouldn't need to be worked out except maybe slight modification of the summoner's spells.
Still haven't heard of a thing wrong with this write-up warranting such work. I have not heard a single problem yet with mine so I am a little confused here.
Simple questions: Balanced or Not please, and if not how so?
This is not a complaint about your archetype. This is a project for my own edification.
All spell-like abilities are cast as a standard action unless noted otherwise. (Page 221 of the Core Rulebook.) This is a "plus" for Summoners.
The list of spells is on spell level parity. Getting them at level as "personal swift action spells that aren't accessible when not wearing my eidolon" seems pretty powerful - until you realize that these 'buffs' are useless when running around pretending to be Iron Man. Losing access to this version of the normal summon monster class feature entirely while 'wearing' the Eidolon primary class feature seems to bite the character in the rear more than it helps.
This is not a complaint about your archetype. This is a project for my own edification.
All spell-like abilities are cast as a standard action unless noted otherwise. (Page 221 of the Core Rulebook.) This is a "plus" for Summoners.
The list of spells is on spell level parity. Getting them at level as "personal swift action spells that aren't accessible when not wearing my eidolon" seems pretty powerful - until you realize that these 'buffs' are useless when running around pretending to be Iron Man. Losing access to this version of the normal summon monster class feature entirely while 'wearing' the Eidolon primary class feature seems to bite the character in the rear more than it helps.
Okay cool.