Creative Director
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Hi there, everyone!
So... you know how on the first page of an Adventure Path installment, on page 6 of each volume, we put a table of contents for the adventure along with a sentence or two of description for each part of the adventure?
Well... it strikes me that those annotated tables of contents on page 6 do a MUCH better job at providing an adventure summary than the actual Adventure Summary section we put in each adventure.
To the extent that I'm considering cutting the "Adventuer Summary" section entirely, starting with Wrath of the Righteous, and letting the much easier-to-navigate and process much more quickly version of the summary on page 6 do the job on its own.
What do folks think about this? I can't really think of a compelling idea to keep the dedicated "Adventure Summary" section when we've got those page 6 annotated tables of contents... but I could be missing something.
(AND: no, this would not mean I'm removing the Adventure Background section. That stays there. I'm specifically talking about the section that begins "Adventure Summary" and ends [typically] right before Part One going away.)
I pulled out a few recent volumes and I can't see where there would be much negative impact in removing the Adventure Summary.
Yeah. I've noticed it does get a tad repetitive. It's probably better to get some extra detail or an extra encounter into the game than to just repeat stuff. :)
I pulled out a few copies. I actually quite like the Adventure Summary (also noticed it titled "Adventure Synopsis" in at least one book). I feel like it gives a good linear representation of the story, especially when some AP's can jump around based on players' choices.
That said, it's more of an aid than a necessity.
Works for me.
I personally kind of like the summary at the beginning, but I can definitely see that it is a bit redundant. I think if the page six table gave just a little more plot info, I wouldn't miss the summary at all.
I agree and wouldn't miss the adventure summary block if page 6 takes over the job.
Sounds like a good way to save some precious space. Page 6 works for me.
I suppose you could. Although admittedly, the Adventure Summary is usually only half a column, so I am unsure how much space it would save.
Sure, go for it!
I think if the page six table gave just a little more plot info, I wouldn't miss the summary at all.
pretty much exactly this.
- Torger
Works for me. I do wonder if you have any specific ideas for that half'ish column of text the lack of an Adventure Summary section frees up? Or will it be used on a case-by-case basis where the extra words can help bring additional detail to an encounter or two?
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I think if the page six table gave just a little more plot info, I wouldn't miss the summary at all.
My opinion as well.
I think that change would be just fine by me!
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Creative Director
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Well, usually by now there's a pretty passionate defense, but this seems to be pretty unanimous, so out it goes!
It's not really an issue of saving space, though... since it DOES only take up about half a column on average. That does mean we'll get an extra 250 or so words to go on about something... but that's not a lot in something that's usually about 35,000 words long.
It's not even really about saving time... although invariably this is a section of each adventure that ends up having to be completely re-written as things change during development, it's still only an hour or two of work at most. For something that takes 3 or so weeks to do, that's not that big a deal.
It's pretty much entirely about the aesthetics of the adventure's physical presentation. Having two Adventure Summaries was repetitive, and having a super detailed one felt like a waste of time since all the information in there is repeated during the adventure itself. Having a shorter, sweeter, more succinct summary solves BOTH those problems.
Thanks, everyone, for the feedback!
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Creative Director
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Oh crap, meant to get this in before you decided.
If its the thing I think you're talking about, it gives the approximate levels for starting or finishing the various parts. Perhaps include this level range in the TOC for those of us who don't use XP.
Thanks!
Nope; that's not what I'm talking about. That's the Advancement Track you're talking about, and it's not going anywhere.
I'm fine with removing the summary, especially if you can add a bit more to the table of contents.
I think if the page six table gave just a little more plot info, I wouldn't miss the summary at all.My opinion as well.
Mine too. The ToC is nice, but limited. The Summary gives a much better overview of the adventure. If the linear progression of the plot that is explained in the Summary could be abbreviated into the ToC, then go for it. Otherwise the Summary should stay, as it is a handy overview showing the GM "what comes next" without having to plow through the entire module to pick out plot points.
Bye-bye, summary! Doubt I'll miss ya! =)
I usually skip the Adventure Summary because I find it redundant. I won't mind it being cut.
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I would also like to point out that the summary is not as necessary for the adventure path, but please don't carry the change over to the module line. When you are skimming through modules to throw into a campaign the night of a session it's super useful. When I am going through my back issues of Dungeon looking for a quick adventure it's the first bit I go to.
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Creative Director
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I would also like to point out that the summary is not as necessary for the adventure path, but please don't carry the change over to the module line. When you are skimming through modules to throw into a campaign the night of a session it's super useful. When I am going through my back issues of Dungeon looking for a quick adventure it's the first bit I go to.
The module line is going through a MAJOR reconstruction at this point. They are indeed going to be more formatted like the Adventure Paths once they make the switch over to 64 pages with Dragon's Demand.
I like this idea. I don't find the narrative adventure summary paragraph all that helpful.
As one of your writers, I'd also agree about the redundancy. I know every time I've worked on an AP chapter, I'd put together the synopsis for the TOC and then feel like I was just repeating myself in the Adventure Summary. Just to avoid that repetition, I'd search for ways to either 1) say things differently, or 2) elaborate with a bit more detail. The latter just inflates things, as that same information could be picked up later in the adventure material itself. And, the former still doesn't solve the redundancy problem.
So, yeah. Let the Adventure Summary go. Beef up the TOC just a bit so it incorporates enough detail to serve as a full replacement for that text. And, I also agree it's better to scale back the number of "Parts" in an adventure so you build in a few more words for those which remain in the TOC without having to put extra header/spacing in there for a fourth or fifth "Part." There may be a few times when you need four parts to an adventure, but you can usually get away with just three like a normal three-act structure.
Just my two cents,
--Neil
I'm all for it, with one caveat: I think the whole AP summary needs a beefing up, with a little more emphasis on where each issue fits into the big picture. That could maybe come in the last issue? I don't know. Sometimes it's easy to lose perspective when you first read through the issues.
Hi there, everyone!
So... you know how on the first page of an Adventure Path installment, on page 6 of each volume, we put a table of contents for the adventure along with a sentence or two of description for each part of the adventure?
Well... it strikes me that those annotated tables of contents on page 6 do a MUCH better job at providing an adventure summary than the actual Adventure Summary section we put in each adventure.
To the extent that I'm considering cutting the "Adventuer Summary" section entirely, starting with Wrath of the Righteous, and letting the much easier-to-navigate and process much more quickly version of the summary on page 6 do the job on its own.
What do folks think about this? I can't really think of a compelling idea to keep the dedicated "Adventure Summary" section when we've got those page 6 annotated tables of contents... but I could be missing something.
(AND: no, this would not mean I'm removing the Adventure Background section. That stays there. I'm specifically talking about the section that begins "Adventure Summary" and ends [typically] right before Part One going away.)
Chop away, Oh great and powerful T-REX ! i like the idea of the summary on page six, great idea!!
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We could cut that picture on page 6 and have almost a whole page to write extra things. I love art, but feel that sometimes it's a waste of space in the books and I am saddened when I hear talk of writers ideas that didn't make the cut. A great use of at least the information cut by the adventure summary section would be "possible changes you should make depending on your party". Before the masses rise up to say "be creative, know your group, etc." I should state that like many of you, I've got kids, a job, etc. that detracts from my time to change the adventure. What's worse is while I know the rules, I'm not creative enough to decide what might be a good change vs. a bad change. Help from the pros would be great. And they do this in some volumes, but a dedicated section for that would be cool.
I'd actually like to ammend my vote a bit. I'd like the Adventure Summary to be cut, but, I'd also like the Page 6 summary to be a little more detailed on the Adventure.
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Creative Director
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We could cut that picture on page 6 and have almost a whole page to write extra things. I love art, but feel that sometimes it's a waste of space in the books and I am saddened when I hear talk of writers ideas that didn't make the cut. A great use of at least the information cut by the adventure summary section would be "possible changes you should make depending on your party". Before the masses rise up to say "be creative, know your group, etc." I should state that like many of you, I've got kids, a job, etc. that detracts from my time to change the adventure. What's worse is while I know the rules, I'm not creative enough to decide what might be a good change vs. a bad change. Help from the pros would be great. And they do this in some volumes, but a dedicated section for that would be cool.
Cutting art is not an option.