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Let's take Perception for instance. The moment you ask everyone to make perception checks everyone sits there and rolls until until someone finally makes it so I don't really see the point in actually rolling if they are going to eventually succeed, unless the DC is higher than they could possibly roll.
I may actually remove the "try again" rule that comes with Perception because if everyone misses the DC then you just don't find it or spot that ambush.
I've had players sit there for 30 minutes searching everyone inch of a room in a dungeon and making god knows how many Perception checks until they eventually found the secret room, to me this really cheapens the skill if you get to roll until you make it.
I guess I've been doing it wrong. I didn't know it worked like that.
For ambushes I think I usually just call for it and let the results determine who acts in a surprise round.
For secret doors I think I just describe the room and if someone says "I look behind the bookcase" or whatever then I have them roll whether or not there's anything to find.
Isn't that why you make secret Perception rolls for them?
Take 20 and Take 10 are your friends.
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They should only try again if their characters have reason to think they missed something.
For example just today I was in an adventure where after exploring the entire building we had nowhere to go. We concluded that we had missed a secret door somewhere and started searching again in places where a secret door may be.
If your players can't help but metagame knowing they rolled low on perception then you can also just make the rolls for them in secret.
This may lead to them wanting to take 20. Which is something they are welcome to do, but remember it takes 20 rounds to take 20 searching one square. So if they are in a 5x6 room it would take them an hour to search the entire room that way.
I also don't make as many checks for players as I should. For some reason I really prefer to let players roll their own dice, I'm not sure why.
I make index cards for each PC at the beginning of sessions and I ask players for their init bonus, will save and perception bonus and I've noticed I hardly ever use them.
I think just about the only thing I ever remember to roll in secret is trap checks for rogues with that talent that gives them an auto check when they come within ten feet of a trap.
I don't know how my players feel about this, I probably put them in situations where it's hard not to metagame. Every one I play with is good about that, but I wonder if it spoils the fun at all. I should ask them.
It takes time.
Make sure to remind them that their buffs are running out and such.
There are skill checks you really should roll for the players, keeping the result hidden. Perception being one of them.
"You find nothing of interest." Was there nothing there in the first place, or did they just not find it?
"You believe you have disabled the trap on the door." Did they really? Only way to know for sure is to open the door...
If you let the PCs roll those skills themselves, it may cause them to change their actions. Metagame thinking. If you ask for a check, and they roll low, they may act more cautiously then they normally wold have.
Some skills even call out that the check is to be made in secret, like using the Linguistics skill to forge papers, or Disguise checks.
Or, you could just through random, useless checks into the game. Ask them to make Perception checks even if there is nothing to see. Make Stealth checks even if there is nothing around to detect them. So the players never know if the check is just a random useless one, or one that actually matters.
Drop a wand of Detect Secret Doors on them if they get to freaked out and you don't care that they'll find every other secret door. If they spend their time searching for invisible traps they're probably out of luck.
DM: "Make a perception roll to determine if you hear the oncoming threat."
Players all roll and do not hit the target DC.
<endeth of the scene>
What's to roll again for? They didn't hear the oncoming threat, and anyone that suddenly takes steps to set themselves up to hear it fails to succeed since I don't reward metagaming (heck I reward those that roleplay and lean into the beating I'm about to mete out for playing in character).
It doesn't take long for people to stop trying to "win" and realize that the way to "win" to play your role and make it fun for all sitting around the table (virtual or not).
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I do many of the skill rolls for characters, especially perception, stealth, and sense motive. I think this helps retain atmosphere since they don't get to see the actual numerical result. Instead, they get a description of what happened.
...but sometimes, it is more fun to let them make the rolls. In those cases, I usually have two or more points of interest that can be perceived. For instance, three rogues hide in the shadows waiting to ambush the party. I ask for a perception check. If they succeed at a DC 10, they see a small chest mostly hidden behind a crate. If they get a DC 15, they notice that the lantern in the center of the room is swaying a bit, but there is no obvious reason why (because they cannot see the rogue in the rafters), and if they get more than a DC 22 they spot one of the rogues.
This especially works well when the players fail the big check, because they have something to focus their attention on. When the ambush hits, it is more dramatic since the characters (and the players) are truly caught off-guard. Some players may even be able to piece together the hints they do detect and figure out what is coming...or have the reaction of "crap, I knew something was not right!!!"
We used to all grab dice when spot check or listen check was uttered, but we're a little older now and willing to accept the consequences of one or two failed rolls. Its within the GM's rights to decide if a retry is allowed.
It's all about timing,
Keep the game moving.
If you hinge what happens next based on their dice rolls then all time stops while they make the rolls.
Subscribe to the thought that, regardless of what the PCs do, certain things are going to take place.
The invisible goblin will sneak out of the room and leave, whether or not the PCs stand there for an hour listening. He's gone.
IF they fail and re roll, and re roll you simply tell them they hear/see nothing and have the next thing happen.
Also, dont say "give me a perception check to see if you notice the secret door"
Say "perception checks please"
Then use the results to let anyone know IF the notice anything.
get in the habit of asking for checks when none are needed. that way you have a result in a few minutes if one IS needed.
Ask for acrobatics check or a reflex save to see if the PC slips on a root in the path and falls and makes his tunic dirty. Essentially a non event and will take 2 seconds.
It will have the effect of the PCs not thinking that everything that requires a roll is a pivotal moment, "he would ask for a roll if something wasn't RIGHT here"
Ask for the rolls, note the results and keep the game moving, if someone does re roll, or take 20 have OTHER things happen, stressing and emphasizing that THIS PC can't intertact because he/she is busy doing that skill check.
Continue to RP with the other PCs and dont stop time while this one task gets completed. Eventually players wont want to be "left out" and will stop rolling rolling rolling or taking 20 on everything.
Trying to open a lock on a treasure chest? Sure Take 20.
Make sure to have other things moving in the dungeon as well.
Nothing like a few hobgoblins stumble into the room while a PC is trying to open the chest.
A battle can be over in 12 seconds, or a foot chase or whatever, but that PC can either abandon his never ending skill check and participate, or let is compatriots handle stuff while he's disabling or perceiving....
"while you guys keep that battle down to a dull roar??? I'm looking for a secret door over here!"
It's simple really. If time or situation permits thier character to sit there and examine/listen/search over and over again then they can just use the take 20 rule. That's the reason it exists. If you have a problem with it then just make it so the situation doesn't permit. I've never GM'd but personally I prefer it when the take 20 option isn't a viable option. It's just more fun for me.
Let's take Perception for instance. The moment you ask everyone to make perception checks everyone sits there and rolls until until someone finally makes it so I don't really see the point in actually rolling if they are going to eventually succeed, unless the DC is higher than they could possibly roll.
I may actually remove the "try again" rule that comes with Perception because if everyone misses the DC then you just don't find it or spot that ambush.
I've had players sit there for 30 minutes searching everyone inch of a room in a dungeon and making god knows how many Perception checks until they eventually found the secret room, to me this really cheapens the skill if you get to roll until you make it.
Why weren't they taking 20? That's the thing to do when given plenty of time to find something or search a room. Saves a lot of time making rolls for situations when retrying should be possible, like searching a room.
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Or, you could just through random, useless checks into the game. Ask them to make Perception checks even if there is nothing to see. Make Stealth checks even if there is nothing around to detect them. So the players never know if the check is just a random useless one, or one that actually matters.
This! Also, I love to have players roll for checks where even a 1 succeeds and say "everyone hears/sees..." So that they feel that my comments about success and failure are nearly arbitrary. I like to have everyone at the table second guessing even themselves for every called roll. This worked so well in one game that half the group fell into a pit in a water filled room. They were upset at me at the moment, but admitted it was one of the best rooms in the dungeon after the game.
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When I call for perception checks the players know its, do or do not there is no try again.
I play it that the skill roll success means you do it like Arthur Fonzarelli. If they don't make it depending on what are trying to do they can still succeed, but just not immediately, and certainly not like the Fonz. I'll tell them what happens it just wont be cool. If its a do or do not situation I just tell them they fail or they find nothing.
Example:
Scenario 1
Player: ok orcs on other side of this door I want to kick it in.
ME: go ahead and roll a Str check.
Player: booh yah 20!
Me: Alright door splinters into bits scaring the crap out of the unsuspecting orcs. Roll initiative you have surprise round.
Sceanario 2
Player: ok orcs on other side of this door I want to kick it in.
ME: go ahead and roll a Str check.
Player: 12 plus 4 mod so 16
Me: Door doesn't give way to first kick but falls off the hinges on second kick. Orcs look over roll initiative normal combat.
Sceanario 3
Player: ok orcs on other side of this door I want to kick it in.
ME: go ahead and roll a Str check.
Player: Crap a 1 :(
Rest of table: ooooooh LOL
Me: Your foot goes through the door like O.J. Simpson from naked gun. Roll Initiative.
May not be RAW but it sure is fun!
Don't call for rolls for perception, unless something generates it (like a dwarf's stonecutting ability).
If they choose to, or if they try to take an action that would require it, have them roll the check.
When they're not sure... they won't be quite so determined.