Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
|
I'm sure someone can give me a good reason against this idea, but I thought I'd throw it in anyways.
People talk about not liking how the pregens play out. But if they don't have a character of the right tier, it's the only option. Why do we limit them to playing the pregens?
Why not look to other players' extra characters instead?
Best case example. I'm running the game. I've got a table of 5th level characters, am planning on giving my GM credit to my own 5th level character, and a new player shows up. He doesn't have a 5th level character, so I let him play my 5th instead of a pregen. At the end of the game, he gets a chronicle exactly as if he played the pregen, and I still get my GM credit, with the bonus of storywise my character actually was there.
Treat the used characer in all ways as the pregen, regarding consumables, possible death, etc. But it opens the range of options up - while still using vetted, valid PFS characters. If the player is unsure how to use an ability well, the person familiar with it is right at the table. If they want to use a pubished pregen instead, or no-one at the table volunteers their own, no problem, just play it like we do now.
I'm not sure about opening it up for the entire table to offer their characters as pregens, and I'm sure many players would hate the idea of someone else playing their characters. But would it be so bad if people could offer their own as pregens instead of the written ones?
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
GM -- The watch captain, a lizardfolk of unusual girth, pulls himself out of the stationhouse and straightens up. His hood flares briefly as his underlings excitedly explain something.
He walks up to you, and demands to see your papers.
Groucho -- You're a watch captain? Who , exactly, are you watching, and does her husband know? No answer, eh? Now see here, my good, um, amphibian, we really don't have time fo--
Chico -- No, no, you're a-doin' it wrong.
Groucho (trying to stay in character) -- Hang on a second, Captain Smiley, my compatriot wishes a word with me. (to Chico) What in heavens do you mean, my boy?
Chico -- The PC you're a-playin', he's a-mine. I built him, and I a-know all his stuff. He's all rough and tumbly. He would-a attack the big guy. Even with all the green and scaly. And muscles. And teeth.
Groucho -- Your inspiration is remarkable. That's certainly a novel twist on a negotiator. Should I growl for the nice man?
Chico -- That would be a good-a start.
Groucho (to the watch captain) -- Grr!
Chico -- And you gotta draw your axe. And wave it around.
Groucho -- I do believe you have neglected to provide me with said axe.
Chico -- Right a-there! "re-a-per" It's a big-a axe.
Groucho -- Now, see? I fell into the exceedingly common trap of pronouncing that "rapier". Anything else on this sheet I should know?
Chico -- No. That's about it.
Groucho -- Good.
Chico -- Except, ya gotsa throw spoils at him.
Groucho -- Spoils?
Chico - Yah! I figger I gots vegetables and that old dead rat our brother picked up a-last week.
(Harpo mimes asking a dire rat out on a date.)
Groucho -- I see I have first and second level spoils here. Just checking, but is there any expectation that this character should rage?
Chico (thinks about that) -- Nooo. Usually, the guys I fight, they take a-care of that.
Groucho & Chico (together) -- After they gets spoils thrown on them.
Groucho (drawing the rapier) -- I begin to appreciate why the character is named "Barion". All right, foul watch captain, stand aside or feel the bite of my axe. Or stand aside and you'll still feel the bite of my axe. My axe is teething and appreciates the opportunity. Grr.
|
|
I think it runs into some problems.
1) You get the credit at the level of the pregen you played, so it could cause people to get credit at odd points.
2) pregens past level 7, What if a guy plays a level 10 pregen in 10-11 they don't exist for a reason.
3) consistency of an organized play campaign. There is enough table variation without the pregens available changing between GMs.
I'm already a little guilty of this. I made a bunch of first level characters, because I don't think the first level pregens are done very well, and most people are going to come into it wanting to play a specific class.
However I think it would be nice for a GM-Run pre-gen if I could have it be my own dude :)
I'm already a little guilty of this. I made a bunch of first level characters, because I don't think the first level pregens are done very well, and most people are going to come into it wanting to play a specific class.
That is against the rules. The level 1 pregens are there for a reason. You can't just hand someone a PC you created and say have fun. It goes against the spirit of the campaign.
If someone wants something other than the myriad of pregens available they need to create one themselves for use at level one.
|
|
I'm already a little guilty of this. I made a bunch of first level characters, because I don't think the first level pregens are done very well, and most people are going to come into it wanting to play a specific class.That is against the rules. The level 1 pregens are there for a reason. You can't just hand someone a PC you created and say have fun. It goes against the spirit of the campaign.
If someone wants something other than the myriad of pregens available they need to create one themselves for use at level one.
You're wrong. I don't represent them as pregenerated characters in any way. Any player may play a first level character, and because of the retraining rules change it however they want.
I say "here are the first level Pre-gens" if the players say "lame I really wanted to play a summoner" I offer them a first level summoner that I made and tell them about the first level retraining rules.
|
|
I say "here are the first level Pre-gens" if the players say "lame I really wanted to play a summoner" I offer them a first level summoner that I made and tell them about the first level retraining rules.
I was thinking about doing that. As long as you explain for things like Summoners that they have to purchase the APG to keep playing it, I don't see any reason not to.
|
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
|
I've thought about making 1st-level pregens for players different from the iconics, so they're easier for new players to pick up. Trying to explain Two-Weapon Fighting or prepared spellcasting to a brand-new player is just a headache. I'd much rather hand them a sword-and-board fighter, sorcerer, or life oracle over Valeros, Ezren, and Kyra.
|
|
I've thought about making 1st-level pregens for players different from the iconics, so they're easier for new players to pick up. Trying to explain Two-Weapon Fighting or prepared spellcasting to a brand-new player is just a headache. I'd much rather hand them a sword-and-board fighter, sorcerer, or life oracle over Valeros, Ezren, and Kyra.
They could've at least made Ezren a specialist ... or not made his bonded object his damn weapon. Consider a brand new player reading Ezren's sheet: "Oh, okay, I can't ever let go of this cane, or I stop being able to cast spells. But this next power allows me to ... throw my cane away? What the crap?"
|
Yeah, I didn't realize just how much universalist wizards suck until I went to go make my own wizard character and looked at the details. Any school is better, if for no other reason than because you get an extra spell slot per spell level. If you're handing a newbie a level 1 pregen wizard, it's because they want to cast spells, so give them something with more spells to cast!
And I agree that the initial idea in this thread is a bad idea. Besides what's already been stated about the GM telling the newbie how to play his character, there's also the possibility of the monsters showing favoritism because the GM doesn't want to hurt his own PC! Or conversely, targeting his own PC more than normal, because he doesn't want to appear to be showing favoritism.
So its OK for me to change feats on a pregen then?
Sending email to Campaign staff to report this post.
|
|
Amulet of Magecraft is the only reason really to be a universalist, and even then I'm not sure it's worth it.
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
So its OK for me to change feats on a pregen then?
On a 1st-level pre-gen that is used by a player, yes. Essentially, it's the player's 1st-level character. You can treat "Valerus with axes instead of swords" as your first-level PC.
But not a 4th or 7th-level pre-gen.
And not a pre-gen (of any level) that is being run by the GM to make a legal 4-person table.
--+--
Do you imagine that the campaign staff doesn't read these threads?
Do you imagine that the campaign staff doesn't read these threads?
I try not to imagine anything regarding campaign staff.
|
|
So its OK for me to change feats on a pregen then?
Sending email to Campaign staff to report this post.
It's not a problem for level 1 characters. However, you just have to make sure NOT to call them official pregens. If I happen to like pregen Kyra, and I want to make my own cleric of Serenrae, Kyria, that wields a scimitar and has Extra Channeling instead of Toughness, nothing is stopping me.
When my wife tried to play PFS (this was before lvl 1 retrains), she said she wanted to play a barbarian, but she knew nothing of the mechanics of the game or what to even do to begin with. She had no interest in the crunch, just the flavor. So I helped her out and made out the lvl 1 barbarian almost myself, leaving the flavor and RP details to her. In some people's eyes, this was my character; but she was playing it. What's wrong with doing the same for another new PFS player?
You either create your own character or use a pregen.
1st-Level Character Retraining
Pathfinder Society is all about player choices and living with those choices once you’ve made them. However, at the start of a Pathfinder’s career, you are allowed to adjust your character before settling in for the long haul. Before you level up a character for the first time, you may change any aspect of it except its Pathfinder Society Number. Changes
may only be made between adventures and before playing as a character above 1st level. Any exceptions will be noted in the Pathfinder Society FAQ. You are able to keep all treasure, Prestige Points, special boons, and XP that you have earned and apply them to the character once you retrain as long as the character meets the criteria above.
The spirit of the retrain rule is for players to switch out some of the choices they've made on their characters.
There are many ways to abuse the retrain rule. That doesn't mean you should.
|
|
The spirit of the retrain rule is for players to switch out some of the choices they've made on their characters.
There are many ways to abuse the retrain rule. That doesn't mean you should.
How would you handle a player who is new to the game, and thus not yet facile enough to create their own character from scratch, but has their heart set on a character idea which doesn't fit with the pregens?
|
|
I would argue that using "pregens" generated from experienced players and GMs is not a great offense to the rules. It allows new players to try out exciting and interesting characters right from the start rather than the same-old pregens, which even while trying to keep them simplistic, they are still not the most ideal to introduce for new players. It will also give them a better sense of whether they like the character than a pregen because they can get a "real world build."
I think you need to see the positive aspects that this opens up rather than people trying to fish to cheat the rules. I see this "rule-bending" (which is still technically legal) as a good thing.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
@Chalk Microbe - Okay, it sounds like the crux of your position is about it being "their" PC. So, what makes it "their" PC or not?
If a newbie likes the pregen they started with, and decides that their new PC will have identical starting stats and just advance from there, is it "their PC", or no?
If a newbie likes a 1st-level pregen (say, Kyra) except for a feat, and decides to have their new 1st-level PC be a carbon copy of the pregen except for that detail and the name, is it "their PC"? Does the answer change if someone who didn't even know pregens existed came up with the exact same build on their own, just by coincidence?
If my wife says she wants to play a "cool archer" and I write up a new 1st-level ranger (occasionally changing minor details at her request), is it "her PC", or not?
If she decides to play a magus but asks for my "blessing" on all her choices (and takes most or all of my suggestions), is it "her PC", or not?
If I decide I want to try a class/archetype I haven't played before and ask for feat/spell advice on the forums, and I take some of said advice when building my PC, is it "mine"?
It seems that you believe it's possible for someone to try to play a PC that's NOT theirs, so where is that line between "theirs" and "not theirs"?
@jiggy No, who cares, no, no, no, there.
