The Permanency Spell (Legal or Not)

[Vincent The Dark]

I think I saw that nothing can be made permanent, as per the spell, in PFS, but somebody wanted to give me a continual flame and the GM OKed it, after he said that only one spell can be carried from campaign to campaign or something like that.
Is that true, can there be a spell that lasts from one campaign to another or not? And can that spell be a reduce person made permanent?

[WalterGM]

As of one of the newer editions of the guide, you are allowed to have one casting of some spells carry over between sessions.

From page 26 of the Guide wrote:

A character may have one each of the following spells that carries over from scenario to scenario: continual flame, masterwork transformation, secret chest, and secret page.

So you can have Continual Flame, you cannot have permanency.

[Castilliano]

Oh, you can have permanency, it's just not that permanent.
It ends after every scenario/quest/module (or section of module re: Thornkeep).
Not quite the same as end of session, as you could go 3 sessions in a module, but as soon as you get a chronicle sheet, the spell ends.
Which is a waste of money, given what you could've had.

[Paz]

Castilliano wrote:

Oh, you can have permanency

Nope:

GtPFSOP wrote:

The following spells found in the Core Rulebook are not legal for play and may never be used, found, purchased, or learned in any form by PCs playing Pathfinder Society Scenarios: awaken, permanency, and reincarnate.

[Castilliano]

DOH!
Yeah, kinda vaguely remembered that...
Nips it at the bud.

But the other spells could be used in quantities greater than one, until they promptly ended when the chronicle sheet went out.

[LazarX]

Vincent The Dark wrote:

I think I saw that nothing can be made permanent, as per the spell, in PFS, but somebody wanted to give me a continual flame and the GM OKed it, after he said that only one spell can be carried from campaign to campaign or something like that.

Is that true, can there be a spell that lasts from one campaign to another or not? And can that spell be a reduce person made permanent?

You can ONLY have what's specifically listed in Additional Resources, and limited to the quantity there of, such as one continual flame and ONE masterwork transformation.

If Additional Resources does not specifically say you can have something, you can't have it. The spells that are listed as explicitly forbidden, remain so.

[james maissen]

Vincent The Dark wrote:

And can that spell be a reduce person made permanent?

While it would be nice if they would expand the rules to allow for such permanent effects, currently they do not do so.

I'm not sure why, but historically organized campaigns have frowned on the spell.. perhaps it's a legacy from 2nd edition?

-James

[Finlanderboy]

a permanent greater invisibility is not fair.

[TwilightKnight]

A permanent [below] might be "unfair" for organized play as well...

Enlarge Person
See Invisibility
Arcane Sight

[Belafon]

Leaving aside that some of the suggestions aren't eligible for permanency at all (like greater invisibility), the issue is the same one that shows up all the time in organized play: You can adjust things to deal with player power in a home game with the same 4-6 players all the time but not in a campaign with thousands of widely separated people.

How do you design a scenario if things can be permanent? You basically have to assume that every wizard or sorcerer of 10th level has permanent see invisibility. And that a lot of 9th level melee types will be permanently enlarged. To counter these assumptions you have to ramp up the difficulty somewhat. But the encounter becomes very hard for those that don't have them.

Enlarge person is uniquely difficult in that only the caster can dismiss it. If you find yourself needing to get through a small space and the spell was cast on you in a previous scenario, you may have to wait outside and not get to participate.

And a very big thing is that you've taken away dispel magic as a possible spell for any NPC to have memorized. Because the first time a permanent see invisibility is dispelled every player that happens to is going to cry foul about being "cheated" out of 5000 gp.

[asthyril]

Finlanderboy wrote:

a permanent greater invisibility is not fair.

it is also not a legal target for permanency. only normal invisibility can be made permanent, and that is only on objects, not creatures.

[james maissen]

Bob Jonquet wrote:

A permanent [below] might be "unfair" for organized play as well...

Enlarge Person
See Invisibility
Arcane Sight

What about the nature of organized play makes these 'unfair'?

-James

[CRobledo]

james maissen wrote:

What about the nature of organized play makes these 'unfair'?

-James

Se Belafon's post upthread for like 5 reasons.

[Katisha]

Belafon wrote:

....snipping good stuff to save space....

And a very big thing is that you've taken away dispel magic as a possible spell for any NPC to have memorized. Because the first time a permanent see invisibility is dispelled every player that happens to is going to cry foul about being "cheated" out of 5000 gp.

I'm not sure... I had my Continual Flame dispelled and I didn't "cry foul" about it. I did go kick the body of the bit...ah... lady that ruined my fashion bling though. (my Continual Flame was on the lining of my cloak/skirt). It's all for the good though, I just got it re-cast on my MistMail (so now sometimes I get Flaming Mist! Judge-dependant).

But you're right. I'm sure some people WOULD/WILL grip about it being cast on one of their spells. (Eye-roll) Some people will complain about the price if you gave them a free potion.

[james maissen]

Belafon wrote:

How do you design a scenario if things can be permanent?

The same way that you deal with anything that comes from PCs becoming higher level. You accept what was a challenge for earlier levels is no longer an appropriate challenge for higher level characters.

You can say that access to the fly spell changes many encounters. And it does. But you don't ban the spell, you accept that higher level groups can do higher level things. Parties with trapfinding vs those that don't might find an easier/harder time with a scenario featuring a trap.. but that's the nature of the game and having a well rounded group.

You give a level challenge, and if they have legitimate ways of handling the situation then so be it.

As to enlarged fighters.. that would not be all that smart for them to do. After awhile they will learn it. As far as trivializing encounters.. you have a PrC that lets them enlarge as a swift action. It's not an issue, really.

None of these are based on the nature of organized play.

-James

[Chalk Microbe]

You can have a permanent negative level if you want.

[asthyril]

i think permanents should be allowed. my hair is too stringy i want it curly and full of life like those girls i see in pathfinder chronicle advertisements.