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Okay, I figured I have this understood, but I like to check my P's and Q's.
So, Rage reads:
So:
1) Can I use a spell-like ability?
2) Cast a Quickened Spell?
3) Use a Quickened spell-like ability?
4) Make a Heal check to stabilize an ally?
5) Make an Escape Artist check to escape a grapple?
6) Use a Bardic Performance?
We could argue about what the rules support, but I believe the answer is no to all except #6. It should go without saying that the list is intentionally short, and intentionally address very few specifics.
I'm pretty sure all the answers are no, including #6.
#2 - I'm pretty sure spellcasting is right out, unless you've an ability (like from the Rage Prophet) that lets you use it. The actual casting time doesn't seem relevant.
#4 - By RAW there's no reason you can't. Heal is Wisdom-based. GMs might argue that it takes patience to do this, but it's only three seconds.
#5 - By RAW no. Dex-based skill. Which is really harsh on the grappled barbarian who's just been hit with liberating command by an ally.
I thought supernatural abilities required no concentration.
Do they also automatically require no patience?
Besides, most Bardic Music requires a maintenance action (albeit a free one) every turn--that seems like concentration to me (though, obviously, not the literal game turn Concentration).
My proposition that bardic music works in a rage is support by nothing other than the number of "bardbarians" I have have heard of.
A bardbarian? I imagine a Growling metal singer for some reason.
While a Quickened SLA doesn't provoke, a Readied Attack will still provoke a CONCENTRATION check to succesfully cast it... if it didn't depend on concentration that wouldn't be the case. Su abilities don't have that though.
I don't see a problem with the Heal check, it's WIS based and just like any other usage of your actions otherwise.
I don't see any problem with Bardic Performance based on patience or concentration, the problem I see would be with the ban on DEX/CHA-based skills. Although only a few applications of Performance use the result of a Perform check to determine the result of the Su powers, all Bardic Performance is supposedly done via some normal mode of Performance (even if the GM skips the actual check because he doesn't care how people would 'rate' your performance, this check should technically be made every time you use Performance, which Bardic Performance is doing) and thus is using that skill, which is banned. I'm not sure if there is some archetype or something which let's you use Intimidate instead of Perform, if there is, that would be allowable (and obviously in-line with Barbarian fluff)
I am not sure where the patience or concentration comes in to play for a Quickened spell-like ability, or Supernatural Abilities.
If you can't use a spell-like ability normally, I'm not sure why you think it'd be ok to use a more complicated spell-like ability. Plus, spell-like abilities require concentration checks, after all--while you don't provoke an AoO on quickened ones, you'd still need to make the roll if you were grappled, for example.
As for Supernatural abilities, I don't think you're denied the use of them in general, I just think the specific one you mentioned (Bardic Performance) requires more of you than the Rage allows.
And Heal, while a Wisdom based skill, still requires patience and concentration. The idea of a Raging medic really doesn't bother anyone else? Foaming at the mouth giving CPR or stitching up a wound? Really?
yea, i would think a heal check would obviously not be allowed.
I know enough doctors and paramedics to know you need focus and concentration to properly perform first aid (heal check).
" Providing first aid, treating a wound, or treating poison is a standard action."
The other usages of Heal (disease, spike stones, deadly wounds, etc, 10 minutes to 1hr+) clearly require more patience (vs. actions measured in rounds, which is what is relevant to rage, also measured in rounds), but for the quoted usages, I don't see any reason to believe there is any more 'patience' involved than any other standard action. Concentration, not so much either, that is also a game term that doesn't apply here, and if you want to go outside the game term, MANY things could be said to involve some sort of concentration: acrobatics, attacking somebody with a sword, etc.
I can't fathom how a person so out of their mind with rage, who can't do an acrobatics check, essentially a cartwheel or can't think clearly enough to make a knowledge would have the where with all, to apply first aid correctly or know the proper antitode. you don't think that applying first aid would require patience and concentration.
You think it's easier to do a cartwheel versus treating a serious laceration or diagnosing a poison.
I suspect the reason wis checks are spelled out, is because of perception, but i would think the patience and concentration part would make it clear a heal check is not possible. One cannot apply first or diagnose a patient with patience or concentration, not to mention the ability to recall a wide variety of disperate facts. I can't even see how this is a even a close call.
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You can make Acrobatics checks just fine.
a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride)
As to knowing a proper antidote for a specific poison, that probably would be a knowledge check outside the scope of Heal.
In-combat Heal (standard action) only covers: Providing first aid (stabilize/stop bleed), treating a wound(spikes/caltrops), or treating poison (this is a NON-SPECIFIC aid to their saving throw, not dependent on diagnosing a specific poison... although IF you made the knowledge check and have a specific antidote, it seems reasonable to allow using that in lieu of/in addition to the normal mechanics for treating poision).It's not INT-based, it's not like a Knowledge check, it's using 'Wisdom' and has the same action as a Cleave or Attack action.
If only Perception checks were desired, that can be given a special exception just like Acrobatics.
Rage doesn't indicate that you no longer care for your allies (that one psycho-murderous archetype aside),
and making in-combat Heal checks is essentially just caring for your allies.
If you want to get all into the flavor of things re: patience, I am not making that argument,
I am just saying based on what the rules say, Heal (standard action usages) seem perfectly allowable,
the 'patience' needed for one standard action is functionally equivalent to another (they both equally conflict with other actions), and 'concentration' is either strictly a game term or is something that could plausibly apply to MANY combat actions just as well so I don't think going there is a functional interpretation.
Likewise, it probably is pretty silly that First Aid is only a Standard Action, even a Full-Round action would be extremely damn fast, but that's what the rules say... and AFAIK, this is a discussion of how the rules work. Anybody who doesn't want to follow what the rules say can always do so, but those who want to (or need to, in PFS) are concerned with what the rules actually imply.
I think the problem is that some here are using the obvious intent of the rules, and others are taking "patience" and "concentration" as literal rule terms.
I can't really blame them--I make similar arguments frequently, but then, I usually do it to showcase the folly of sticking to RAW.
I don't know, if you're asking for the RAW answer because you want to twist it, I think its ultimately ambiguous, because you could argue Concentration is a game term, but patience is not.
If you're asking for the RAI, I think the answer is:
"You're supposed to be a raging, violent lunatic and you can only do stuff that helps you kill/terrorize your enemies or avoid getting killed yourself."
To that end, I'm pretty sure the intent is that you're limited to Intimidating dudes, hitting dudes, and moving around in a way that helps you hit or intimidate dudes.
The lack of a restriction on Wisdom skills is almost certainly so you can both use Perception to counter Stealth and Sense Motive to counter Feints, and they likely forgot Heal (or assumed, wrongly, apparently, that everyone would realize you can't bandage wounds and stuff while frothing mad).
You can use Rage for lots of things besides combat. Crazy STR checks to bend prison bars, or just to show off? Works great.
You wouldn't believe how effective a tourniquet can be when applied with the strength of 10 men... :-)
It just isn't implausible to me that this Barbarian, who is maintaining his state of enhanced combat senses and strength, IS able to stop his ally's Bleeding while benefitting from the defensive aspects of Rage vs. events of combat going on around them. They can also do so while spending their turn to Run around the battlefield for s&%*s and giggles, or making a bunch of Climb checks over several rounds to reach some desired location.
I would say that it seems very plausible that First Aid may require 2 hands to stop bleeding, if helping vs. a Poison save may not necessarily... And setting down and re-equipping weapons is certainly a mechanical detail that shouldn't be ignored. The rules don't really say, they don't really say if it requires ANY hands at all or even needs you to not be paralyzed, but if any ruling there is allowed, requiring 2 hands seems reasonable to me. That goes for lots of people who may already be carrying something in their hands, though.
Don't you dare die on me! You've never given up on anything before in your life, so fight! Live, damn it, live!
Don't you dare die on me! You've never given up on anything before in your life, so fight! Live, damn it, live!
LOL
Bravo, What an awesome visual
I think RAW answer to all original questions is no except heal. I think RAI answer is no to all of them.
Think, "BARBARIAN AM RAGING DEATH MACHINE!"