Goblin Squad Member
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We know from Murder by numbers, that attackers use the Low/Medium/High result of 3d200 based on what tier of gear they are using. What determines the Tier of an Unarmed Strike? Is it tied to a "Ki Strike" skill that a monk learns as a class skill or is it linked to a Ki Focus item that the monk must have equipped?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I can see that. I know that's how they did it in DDO, I just don't like handwraps as a weapon slot when not all unarmed strikes are with fists. I can justify it by saying the wraps are actually a ki focus, and not a weapon, but I don't like that because of the way pathfinder treats flurry of blows. In the pnp, a monk can use any weapon (not just the ones with the monk keyword) they are proficient in as a main weapon, and still use an unarmed strike flurry of blows. It treats FoB exactly like Two Weapon Fighting instead of giving a flat increase in number of attacks. I'd like to keep that freedom in PFO. Maybe if the ki focus weapon is considered an off-hand slot like a holy symbol...
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Goblin Squad Member
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The simple solution is to treat it like two weapon fighting, with the requirement that one of your equipped weapons be a "monk focus". The only think this precludes is flurrying while wielding a two-handed weapon.
Of course, it's speculation. They may not use a "monk focus" type weapon at all, though that gives monks a non-trivial edge in terms of threaded gear.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I agree, I ran a PnP campaign with an Oread monk called Joey Twelve-toes, who only used kicks.... I would suggest that they could just tie it to the skill of the monk in whatever skill deals damage.
For example:
Skill 1: 10 damage
2: 20 damage
3: Tier 2 20 damage
4: 30 damage
5: Tier 3 30 damage
I know the numbers are completely off, but you get the idea.
The downside of this is then there will be once less item for monks that can be enhanced with a Keyword, so i would suggest that at the end of the day it will probably just be handwraps :(
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Goblin Squad Member
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Given that the primary purpose of keywords on a weapon is to enable and empower attacks, the monk isn't really losing much unless the monster requires a keyword to bypass DR or disable regen and the monk doesn't have it for their unarmed strikes.
In trade off, they wouldn't have to thread weapons or armor, which are supposed to eat up most of your threads. So that's a pretty powerful trade with a lot of follow-on effects that I'm pretty sure is not what the devs want.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For balance and economic purposes, it's unlikely that we would make any roles that don't need a major piece of gear that all other roles do need. What that piece of gear looks like for non-weapon Monk attacks is still under discussion, and your opinions are appreciated.
Thank you for replying. I am a proponent of using the "Ki Focus" that was added to the Monk in 4E. I don't know if you can legally use that since it was in 4E and not the Pathfinder RPG. This could be a small item that can be held in hand or worn as a necklace. This would allow unarmed strikes to be balanced with other weapons for threading/economy, but would allow you to use actual weapons as well if you want to, and mix weapon and unarmed strikes in the round without having to swap weapon sets.
If you can use it, then needing a meditation crystal or similar item would be desirable. As I said before, I am not a fan of handwraps or brass knuckles, as I feel it detracts from the flavor of the class. But as a fan of monks, I'll take whatever I can get.
I also hope an available keyword for weapons will be "Ki", which will allow you to use Monk special attacks with it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I also hope an available keyword for weapons will be "Ki", which will allow you to use Monk special attacks with it.
Just as balancing requires Monks to have some kind of weapon substitute like the ki focus mentioned as a gear requirement, it also requires that Monks don't get to "double-dip" by having a high-tier weapon AND a high-tier ki focus at the same time. Not that I'm objecting to Monks using weapons, but it needs to be permitted in a way that doesn't allow double the stat bonuses.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For balance and economic purposes, it's unlikely that we would make any roles that don't need a major piece of gear that all other roles do need. What that piece of gear looks like for non-weapon Monk attacks is still under discussion, and your opinions are appreciated.Thank you for replying. I am a proponent of using the "Ki Focus" that was added to the Monk in 4E. I don't know if you can legally use that since it was in 4E and not the Pathfinder RPG. This could be a small item that can be held in hand or worn as a necklace. This would allow unarmed strikes to be balanced with other weapons for threading/economy, but would allow you to use actual weapons as well if you want to, and mix weapon and unarmed strikes in the round without having to swap weapon sets.
If you can use it, then needing a meditation crystal or similar item would be desirable. As I said before, I am not a fan of handwraps or brass knuckles, as I feel it detracts from the flavor of the class. But as a fan of monks, I'll take whatever I can get.
I also hope an available keyword for weapons will be "Ki", which will allow you to use Monk special attacks with it.
Played 4E for over a year and after giving it a real chance, I can say I hate it :D
I'd like, though to see monks use Chi (Ki is the Japanese spelling, and the Monk class is based upon Chinese Monks). A crystal, a gong, special incense, would all fit the bill of a Chi Focus that aids in meditation. Give me that, and a Monk's Spade or a three-sectional staff and I am one happy Wushu student, er, Monk!
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Goblin Squad Member
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For balance and economic purposes, it's unlikely that we would make any roles that don't need a major piece of gear that all other roles do need. What that piece of gear looks like for non-weapon Monk attacks is still under discussion, and your opinions are appreciated.Thank you for replying. I am a proponent of using the "Ki Focus" that was added to the Monk in 4E. I don't know if you can legally use that since it was in 4E and not the Pathfinder RPG. This could be a small item that can be held in hand or worn as a necklace. This would allow unarmed strikes to be balanced with other weapons for threading/economy, but would allow you to use actual weapons as well if you want to, and mix weapon and unarmed strikes in the round without having to swap weapon sets.
If you can use it, then needing a meditation crystal or similar item would be desirable. As I said before, I am not a fan of handwraps or brass knuckles, as I feel it detracts from the flavor of the class. But as a fan of monks, I'll take whatever I can get.
I also hope an available keyword for weapons will be "Ki", which will allow you to use Monk special attacks with it.
Played 4E for over a year and after giving it a real chance, I can say I hate it :D
I'd like, though to see monks use Chi (Ki is the Japanese spelling, and the Monk class is based upon Chinese Monks). A crystal, a gong, special incense, would all fit the bill of a Chi Focus that aids in meditation. Give me that, and a Monk's Spade or a three-sectional staff and I am one happy Wushu student, er, Monk!
Gonna be that guy, I think its actually 'Qi' :p
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Goblin Squad Member
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Is it necessary for monks to use equipment from a balance perspective to enhance their unarmed strikes?
A character might select a weapon based on his opponent's strengths and weaknesses. For instane bludgeoning/piercing, or some magical property. Therefore monks might often choose to use a weapon much of the time, so their unarmed fighting ability gives them versatility rather than more power. This would be particularly true if an unarmed strike did less damage or had less scope for upgrading than a weapon.
I'd like it if monks in PFO don't have to be oriental styled. I'd like it if they can select say any light weapon and be able to use that to flurry. This would allow for broader interpretations of the monk class. I don't see how doing that would necessarily unbalance the game (unlike a flurry with a great axe).
I once played a bald elven mystic (i.e. monk) who had an extremely logical outlook on the universe, pointed ears, was good at martial arts, could paralyse with touch, and who greeted his buddies wishing they would live long and prosper. A lot of fun. My GM allowed me to flurry with a short sword being an elvish weapon with similar stats to the special monk ones.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Is it necessary for monks to use equipment from a balance perspective to enhance their unarmed strikes?
A character might select a weapon based on his opponent's strengths and weaknesses. For instane bludgeoning/piercing, or some magical property. Therefore monks might often choose to use a weapon much of the time, so their unarmed fighting ability gives them versatility rather than more power. This would be particularly true if an unarmed strike did less damage or had less scope for upgrading than a weapon.
Yes. An unarmed strike is equivalent to a weapon for all levels of play, and will improve automatically based on leveling. It states out slightly under performing compared to a weapon, but as your damage increases it becomes more powerful than a weapon as you level. It also allows you to use abilities such as stunning fist, ki strikes, and quivering palm. You can only use those with a weapon if it has the Ki Focus magical property.
More Importantly for PFO, if unarmed strike doesn't need equipment, then Monks don't need to buy and thread weapons. They are outside of a facet of the market, and therefore don't risk as much as any other class when they engage in PvP. This makes them unbalanced and that isn't good.
I'd like it if monks in PFO don't have to be oriental styled. I'd like it if they can select say any light weapon and be able to use that to flurry. This would allow for broader interpretations of the monk class. I don't see how doing that would necessarily unbalance the game (unlike a flurry with a great axe).
Your GM in a house game can do whatever they want, but using Short Swords as a monk weapon is unbalanced in PnP because a short sword has 19-20 threat range. It's even worse if they allowed a Rapier or a kukri with an 18-20 threat range. Let's not even think about a pick with a 20/x4. Monk weapons are balanced on being a d6 20/x2 weapon. The names and descriptions of them are irrelevant, but the stats are not.
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Goblin Squad Member
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On the mechanics side, will ki be recoverable like stamina? Is it possible to use a ritual that needs repeated use to focus ki to increase damage and provide attack bonus? The ritual could require ointments and potions to focus ki. Or possibly use something like a long term flag?
There had been some talk of applying monk armor bonuses in something like Diamond Body. Would the use of ritual ointments to convert ki into natural armor be reasonable? This would drive harvesting herbs to make those ointments. Could these ointments and ritual objects be inhanced by magic?
On another note, could ki be used to empower monk weapons like staffs? (A staff of circles comes to mind in particular.)
For balance and economic purposes, it's unlikely that we would make any roles that don't need a major piece of gear that all other roles do need. What that piece of gear looks like for non-weapon Monk attacks is still under discussion, and your opinions are appreciated.
There are lots of other things that could be done with this. Monks could simply use 'monk weapons' similar to what is already done in Pathfinder RPG. A 'ki focus' similar to what is done in 4th edition is a wonderful alternative to this for those who want to have the fantasy of fighting unarmed. A ki focus can be anything from a set of prayer beads, to a broken weapon hilt, to boxing gloves. There are dozens of other options.
Alternatively, the ki focus can be something every monk uses, but that works similarly to a wizard's spell book. In other words, it is the item that lets a monk use their special ki based powers. In this case, perhaps you could simply go the route that DDO uses, where unarmed damage is determined by your level and your 'fistwraps' give you everything else you would normally get from a weapon. Heck, you could simply make the fistwraps be identical to a weapon in every way.
Perhaps, if you wanted to go this far, you could even have 'leg guards' that work in the same way as fistwraps. The difference? Different animations. Perhaps make the fistwraps be faster but lower damage, and the leg guards be slower but higher damage. Heck, if you really want to get crazy awesome you could divide it up even more.
All this being said, are there plans of adding something like the Style Feats from Ultimate Combat or the Qinggong Monk from Ultimate Magic? They both add an awesome flavor to the monk, allowing more variety and options to a class that sorely needs them.
In case you couldn't tell, I kind of like monks. :)
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Is it necessary for monks to use equipment from a balance perspective to enhance their unarmed strikes?
A character might select a weapon based on his opponent's strengths and weaknesses. For instane bludgeoning/piercing, or some magical property. Therefore monks might often choose to use a weapon much of the time, so their unarmed fighting ability gives them versatility rather than more power. This would be particularly true if an unarmed strike did less damage or had less scope for upgrading than a weapon.
I'd like it if monks in PFO don't have to be oriental styled. I'd like it if they can select say any light weapon and be able to use that to flurry. This would allow for broader interpretations of the monk class. I don't see how doing that would necessarily unbalance the game (unlike a flurry with a great axe).
I once played a bald elven mystic (i.e. monk) who had an extremely logical outlook on the universe, pointed ears, was good at martial arts, could paralyse with touch, and who greeted his buddies wishing they would live long and prosper. A lot of fun. My GM allowed me to flurry with a short sword being an elvish weapon with similar stats to the special monk ones.
First off, unarmed fighting styles have been prevalent in all parts of the world for centuries. The stereotypical monk is generally based off of the Shaolin Monk. Though certainly trained to fight unarmed, shaolin also taught many weapon styles including staff, sword, and polearm styles.
This being said, why should an unarmed monk be worse off than one using a weapon? In real life, this is likely true. But in the fiction that this game is based off of, it really isn't. Many people(myself included) like the idea of being able to beat down evil with my righteous fists of fury! The whole idea of the monk class is all about this. If one monk wants to use a weapon, then that's fine. He should be able to do so.
But why in the world would you think it's ok to REDUCE the options that other people have for playing a game, just because it's not what you want to do? More options are ALWAYS better when it comes to character creation/customization...
So yes, to answer your first question, I think it is necessary. This has been one of the problems with balancing monks in other video games that used them. Every other class' damage progression is based off of class progression, feat selection, and gear. Monks are based only off of the first two(mostly - the Amulet of Mighty Fists was a VERY poor attempt to add gear into the equation, in my opinion). Making this balanced around all three in exactly the same way as all other melee classes is the only real way to even things out...
Edit:Lol, I should read posts below the one I quote before putting something like this down. Totally beaten by the post ninjas.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I like Chi or Qi, since I studied Hung Gar and Wing Chun Wushu (I did study Japanese and Okinawan styles to, but found the Wushu arts to be superior IMHO). :P And yes, I AM that guy Wiseman ;) LOL
Anyway I still think Ibicatus is correct and a Qi focus item should take the place of hand-wraps (as used in DDO). This will allow for kicks, and other Monk abilities, such as Zen Archery (my friend's GF plays one and her character can do some amazing things!).
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Goblin Squad Member
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First off, unarmed fighting styles have been prevalent in all parts of the world for centuries. The stereotypical monk is generally based off of the Shaolin Monk. Though certainly trained to fight unarmed, shaolin also taught many weapon styles including staff, sword, and polearm styles.This being said, why should an unarmed monk be worse off than one using a weapon? In real life, this is likely true. But in the fiction that this game is based off of, it really isn't. Many people(myself included) like the idea of being able to beat down evil with my righteous fists of fury! The whole idea of the monk class is all about this. If one monk wants to use a weapon, then that's fine. He should be able to do so.
But why in the world would you think it's ok to REDUCE the options that other people have for...
Well it depends what you mean by not having a weapon. For balance etc... something has to go in the weapon slot, and need the weapon consumables, as monks having an immunity to the loss of weapon or extra threads for all their other gear, is a major imbalance issue, not to mention a huge griefing issue when it comes to naked monks being able to be half way competent, with extreme ease of threading the handful of items they do chose to bring. Lower losses on death must = lower effectiveness, otherwise we'd wind up with quite a few monks being used for meaningless suicide ganks in which they are happy to do things with under a 5% chance of death, as they can't lose anything on death.
Now as far as filling that slot, anything could be there, whether we do it as handwraps. a trinket, a spiritual pebble, bonzai trimming sheers... what goes in that slot really dosn't matter, he dosn't even need to physically hold it, so long as that slot is used, the object falls into the same crafting/threading etc... rules as any other object in that category.
Same viewpoint on armor, we could apply the AC boost to when he is wearing any monk grade armor etc... Say spiritual robes that allow him to unleash his AC potential etc... now in terms of options that bonus could be enchanted or crafted onto any sort of clothing that normally does not have it's own AC bonus.
First off, unarmed fighting styles have been prevalent in all parts of the world for centuries. The stereotypical monk is generally based off of the Shaolin Monk. Though certainly trained to fight unarmed, shaolin also taught many weapon styles including staff, sword, and polearm styles.This being said, why should an unarmed monk be worse off than one using a weapon? In real life, this is likely true. But in the fiction that this game is based off of, it really isn't. Many people(myself included) like the idea of being able to beat down evil with my righteous fists of fury! The whole idea of the monk class is all about this. If one monk wants to use a weapon, then that's fine. He should be able to do so.
But why in the world would you think it's ok to REDUCE the options that other people have for...
Well it depends what you mean by not having a weapon. For balance etc... something has to go in the weapon slot, and need the weapon consumables, as monks having an immunity to the loss of weapon or extra threads for all their other gear, is a major imbalance issue, not to mention a huge griefing issue when it comes to naked monks being able to be half way competent, with extreme ease of threading the handful of items they do chose to bring. Lower losses on death must = lower effectiveness, otherwise we'd wind up with quite a few monks being used for meaningless suicide ganks in which they are happy to do things with under a 5% chance of death, as they can't lose anything on death.
Now as far as filling that slot, anything could be there, whether we do it as handwraps. a trinket, a spiritual pebble, bonzai trimming sheers... what goes in that slot really dosn't matter, he dosn't even need to physically hold it, so long as that slot is used, the object falls into the same crafting/threading etc... rules as any other object in that category.
Same viewpoint on armor, we could apply the AC boost to when he is wearing any monk grade armor etc... Say spiritual robes that...
If you read my post directly above the one you quoted, you'll see that I was advocating for this precise thing, for many reasons other than the one you were talking about. At least the part about a ki focus/handwraps. While the loss of gear is of course a significant part of this from the viewpoint of PFO, a much larger part is how this has traditionally caused balance issues for the monk class in the d20 system. It's also a major reason why most true 'power gamers' and 'min/maxers' consider the d20 monk class weaker than the other front line fighters.
While I think the idea of a monk being able to fight nearly as well in nothing but a smelly old loincloth as he can with the best gear he can get is cool, it certainly causes headaches from a game balance P.O.V.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I just had a thought on how to handle the armor/ ac side of the equation. If the armor bonus is going to be tied to diamond body, have that ability allow you to use the highest energy resistance on your armor to be used in place of its physical resistance, and it can only be used while wearing cloth armor. You still want to upgrade your clothes/ robes like everyone else, and you end up with the best protection vs physical (AC) and magical damage (evasion, spell resistance, good saves vs everything.) that is a core of the monk class in PnP.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I think that monk's ability to avoid damage could either be modeled as a bonus to the appropriate defense(s) or as a bonus the the appropriate resistance(s).
Given that PnP monks have both AC and SR, I don't think it should be limited to physical.
Perhaps there might be a skill which grants keyword bonuses to keywords which appear only on monk-appropriate armor (featherlight, mobile, ki/qi).
I just had a thought on how to handle the armor/ ac side of the equation. If the armor bonus is going to be tied to diamond body, have that ability allow you to use the highest energy resistance on your armor to be used in place of its physical resistance, and it can only be used while wearing cloth armor. You still want to upgrade your clothes/ robes like everyone else, and you end up with the best protection vs physical (AC) and magical damage (evasion, spell resistance, good saves vs everything.) that is a core of the monk class in PnP.
This is a wonderful idea, honestly. I really do like it, and the one from DeciusBrutus after it.
While we're on the subject of monks, what do you guys think of the Qinggong monk from Ultimate Magic? Should there be a ki system for monks in PFO? If so, is it appropriate to allow them to use ki to power spell like abilities? Is it alright to put in something like 'Ki Leech' or 'Drunken Ki' to allow the monk to regain his ki, or should he have to use a refresh?
I really want them to get Monks right in PFO, since it is quite honestly my favorite class and most fantasy video games either ignore the class or do it poorly... Pathfinder is the first PnP game to actually pay attention to it. All other versions of D&D just treated it sort of like a red headed step child. It was there in the corner begging for attention, but no one really wanted to discuss it so they just ignored it...
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Goblin Squad Member
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For balance and economic purposes, it's unlikely that we would make any roles that don't need a major piece of gear that all other roles do need. What that piece of gear looks like for non-weapon Monk attacks is still under discussion, and your opinions are appreciated.
Hand wraps would work, as an item / weapon that could be crafted and then enhanced with key words and consumable buffs to bring it on par with other class weapon / gear.
I found this as a possible weapon for Monks, eventhough I'd prefer an unarmed possibility as well.
There are tons of 'monk' martial arts weapons in Pathfinder already. If this is what I think it is, it would likely be a double weapon of some kind. Which is totally cool, the more cool weapons the merrier as far as I'm concerned!
There definitely needs to be some kind of 'unarmed' possibility. The monk can be using something that counts for game purposes as a weapon, as long as the animation shows he's punching, kicking, throwing elbows and knee strikes, etc. I want an option that doesn't include swinging a sword, staff, polearm, club, etc.
ALSO, allow us to have different animations for our unarmed monks! Since flurry of blows in the PRPG is simply an improved version of Two Weapon Fighting, make people using unarmed strike equip two weapons. Have one of them be a 'fist' weapon and one be a 'kick' weapon. Give each different stats and keywords. If you equip two 'fist' weapons your character will be like a boxer or kempo stylist, all hand attacks fast and furious. If you equip two 'kick' weapons all of the attacks will be kicks, more like a tae kwon do or savate stylist. Lots of hopping kicks and turning kicks. If you equip one of each, you get a monk who alternates between the two.
It's time for a MMO to give monks more options in how their monk looks. It would be awesome if there were mechanical differences between the two, but even if all it does is change how the attack animations look, I'd count it a win!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well Stephen Cheney mentioned that there had to be some sort of an item associated with the attacks, so I suggested hand wraps (wich I believe they have in DDO). These cloth or leather wraps, sort of like what boxers use under their gloves, would qualify as a weapon. Higher quality ones would be like the Martical Arts gloves we see used for striking and grabbing. Foot gear can also be used for kicks.
Is it really, completely unarmed, I guess not, but it is close enough for my taste.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well Stephen Cheney mentioned that there had to be some sort of an item associated with the attacks, so I suggested hand wraps (wich I believe they have in DDO). These cloth or leather wraps, sort of like what boxers use under their gloves, would qualify as a weapon. Higher quality ones would be like the Martical Arts gloves we see used for striking and grabbing. Foot gear can also be used for kicks.
Is it really, completely unarmed, I guess not, but it is close enough for my taste.
Could even be less noticable than that. Bracelets, Anklets etc... So long as they can be mostly based off of the same conditions as normal mellee weapons and have the same costs, we can go as small or as insignificant to appearance as we like.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But an item such as Onishi is suggesting - perhaps one that acts as their focus item, to focus their mental and physical abilities, ki/chi/etc. - could also be of varying grades/tiers/quality so as to retain their need for a combat item.
Yes they could, I agree.... I was just joking with the jewelry comment. But, wrapping one's hands and feet does the same thing and is more accurate to what is used in martial arts, than wearing bracelets and anklets. There should be many options / varieties of unarmed items, just as there are many variations of swords, axes or hammers.
Could even be less noticable than that. Bracelets, Anklets etc... So long as they can be mostly based off of the same conditions as normal mellee weapons and have the same costs, we can go as small or as insignificant to appearance as we like.Well Stephen Cheney mentioned that there had to be some sort of an item associated with the attacks, so I suggested hand wraps (wich I believe they have in DDO). These cloth or leather wraps, sort of like what boxers use under their gloves, would qualify as a weapon. Higher quality ones would be like the Martical Arts gloves we see used for striking and grabbing. Foot gear can also be used for kicks.
Is it really, completely unarmed, I guess not, but it is close enough for my taste.
I agree 100%. It's appearance doesn't matter at all. What matters is that it fulfills the same function as other weapons. Boxing gloves, handwraps, leg guards, ninja tabis, prayer beads, brass knuckles, whatever.
Again, the graphical representation matters not at all. In fact, for an 'unarmed' martial artist the less obtrusive the better. The only reason I brought up the 'fist weapon' and 'kick weapon' idea was as a way to allow us to customize the unarmed attack animations. I love the monk's attack animation in DDO the first time I saw it. As it expanded with levels it stayed very cool. After the 1000th time i saw it, I started to wish I could change it's appearance somehow. Hopefully, there will be enough animations that go with the different 'special attacks' and 'keywords' to NOT have it look as if our character is endlessly repeating the same combo. No autoattack will probably go a long way with this, I suppose.
Can't blame a guy for trying, though!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Being,
Ooo - bracers. Then if I take deflecting missile fire, can I knock arrows aside like Wonder Woman? :)
Deflect Arrows *is* a monk bonus feat, after all... =P
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Goblin Squad Member
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Again, I'm not a fan of wraps since they would tie up the weapon slot. Being able to seamlessly switch between weapon and unarmed attacks is a hallmark of the monk in Pathfinder, and using wraps forces you to use Unarmed only or switch weapons. I don't like it in DDO and I would hope that PFO doesn't fall into the same trap.
Flavor wise, I think the best option would be a Belt or Sash ki focus that takes the waist slot. The color of the belt could match up to the Tier of the equipment, along the lines of the belt ranking systems used in most modern martial arts schools. The Gi Belt is a good look for those who like Japanese/Korean syles, and the sash is good for those who like Chinese styles.
This gives the freedom to use punches, kicks, knees, elbows, and headbutts as unarmed strikes, and still have a weapon equipped as well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Again, I'm not a fan of wraps since they would tie up the weapon slot. Being able to seamlessly switch between weapon and unarmed attacks is a hallmark of the monk in Pathfinder, and using wraps forces you to use Unarmed only or switch weapons. I don't like it in DDO and I would hope that PFO doesn't fall into the same trap.
Flavor wise, I think the best option would be a Belt or Sash ki focus that takes the waist slot. The color of the belt could match up to the Tier of the equipment, along the lines of the belt ranking systems used in most modern martial arts schools. The Gi Belt is a good look for those who like Japanese/Korean syles, and the sash is good for those who like Chinese styles.
This gives the freedom to use punches, kicks, knees, elbows, and headbutts as unarmed strikes, and still have a weapon equipped as well.
I think it might be beneficial to reread the 'A Three-Headed Hydra' blog post.
The first six slots on the action bar are weapon slots, tied directly to the weapon (or weapons if dual-wielding) you have equipped. (In this context, the term "weapon" includes staves, wands, holy symbols, and other magical implements.)
[...]
Characters can have up to three weapon sets and switch between them in combat, so a cleric could switch between her mace with shield and her holy symbol with shield.
So, essentially it sounds like a "unarmed" weapon (ki focus, hand wraps, whatever) would still be a weapon slot item, and you'd still be able to swap between other weapons and your unarmed strikes by swapping weapon sets in combat. I don't see why they'd handle it any different than a cleric's holy symbol.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So, essentially it sounds like a "unarmed" weapon (ki focus, hand wraps, whatever) would still be a weapon slot item, and you'd still be able to swap between other weapons and your unarmed strikes by swapping weapon sets in combat. I don't see why they'd handle it any different than a cleric's holy symbol.The first six slots on the action bar are weapon slots, tied directly to the weapon (or weapons if dual-wielding) you have equipped. (In this context, the term "weapon" includes staves, wands, holy symbols, and other magical implements.)
[...]
Characters can have up to three weapon sets and switch between them in combat, so a cleric could switch between her mace with shield and her holy symbol with shield.
With a cleric's Holy symbol, you are still swapping between two weapon sets to switch between magic and physical abilities. When you switch between a mace and and a holy symbol, your slots 1-6 should automatically change based on the currently equipped hand slot item.
Also, while you can switch between sets in combat, it may cost a point or more of stamina to swap weapon sets. It's not unreasonable to assume that, since you lose an action doing so in TT rules.
I don't think monks should have to swap weapon sets to use an unarmed attack with a different appendage than the one that is holding a weapon. Flurry is all about speed, and having unarmed attacks and armed attacks on the same quickbar is a good thing. It lets monk act more quickly in a fight by combining armed and unarmed abilities on the same quickbar, at the cost of having more restriction in the breadth of abilities available by switching between a separate armed and unarmed quickbar.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't know much about Monks, but would it make sense to have certain attacks automatically include additional unarmed strikes, so that you didn't have to use additional Weapon Slots for those unarmed strike attacks?
That would be a possible solution, but it has two problems.
- While having a specific weapon attack have successive hits from unarmed strikes may work, it's inelegant, and it reminds me too much of how 4e does things.
- Flurry attacks are usually unarmed attackes, but they can be with any weapon with the [monk] descriptor as well, so you could interchange a siangham, sai, kama, nunchaku, or staff weapon attack with an unarmed attack if you wanted. This is usually to change to a different damage type or to use exotic materials to bypass DR in TT. If you are hard-coded into using unarmed attacks, then you lose that option.