Playing a Wizard/alchemist gestalt, and I really wanted to try my hand at things like spell research and crafting. Is it too cheesy to research my own versions of existing spells, such as a ice version of fireball?
Checking the research rules, there's also DC rules for non-somatic/vocal spells, coming at +10 and +5 to the DC. A Frost fireball would be about 3,000gp, a week to research requiring DC 20 + 6 + 10 + 5 = 41.
Two separate rolls, one Knowledge(arcana), one Spellcraft, both DC41.
The dc may be lowered by -2 for knowing similiar spell(fireball), -6 by adding three components, -2 to -5 depending on focus and -1 per 300gp spent in research material upto -5.
Total for a non-somatic, non-vocal, focus and material requiring Frostbomb = DC23, one week research, 1,500 worth extra research materials and 3,000 for the spell levels.
Broken?
Since all spell research requires GM approval....
That said an ice fireball is pretty reasonable at level but dropping all the components is probably not.
Dropping components of existing spells should warrant increasing the spell level.
Fire resistance is the most common resistance in the game, so fireball is weighed appropriately at 3rd level with that in mind. Whether or not changing the damage type to cold warrants a spell level increase is a matter of opinion, really. I personally wouldn't bother, it's not that big of a deal.
Dropping the components almost certainly would. I'd probably use the metamagic feats as a guideline for how much of an increase in level should be applied. Not sure if it'd be direct guideline or not, but a completely component-less spell would be a minimum of 2 levels higher for me.
Best idea, talk to your GM.
Problem is that it's a DmPc kinda game, so I need to keep any ideas in check trough other's opinions and some common sense. I don't think element would warrant level increase, Sorcerer arcana clearly don't.
Bit curious why they added removing somatic and vocal to the DC table but no suggestion to increase spell level or reduce damage or such.
You should look at the text immediately before the table of DC changes, specifically the section on Components.
Unless there’s a particularly good reason, almost all spells should require both verbal and somatic components, and most divine spells should require a divine focus. Spells with no verbal component are particularly rare. If the spell-as-designed lacks them, consider adding material component or focus requirements as a means of adding flavor. Expensive components and foci are a good way to adjust the effective power of a spell without changing the level.
Unless a spell is specifically designed to not need components, such as a spell to summon a spell component pouch or a spell to escape grapple, components should be kept for simplicity and balance.
As for the spell itself, I'd say a frost fireball is pushing level 3 since Fireball is already considered a "go-to" blasting spell on level 3 and the closest to what you're describing that I can find would be Cone of Cold, which is level 5. Personally I'd put the spell somewhere between high level 3 and the low end of level 4.
Finally, you can't compare to Sorcerer Arcana since that is specifically a class ability and balanced with other class abilities. Instead, the metamagic feat Elemental Spell places the spell level at +1 for 50% of the elemental damage changed. A level 4 spell seems about right.
A straight port of fire to frost (or any other element) is not something I've ever found cheesy or unbalancing, especially at a 4,500gp price tag. I've had access to various spells that don't use traditional elements (from walls of acid to acidballs) for approximately four years in my current game without balance issues.
Removing components is pretty cheesy though.
Ah, missed that text. I never played casters much, so it's fairly new waters for me. But is changing element so impacting, normally you'd raise it with a feat yes, but isn't that because you do it on the fly?
This is talk about making up your own spell, which is frozen in this case and would require a metamagic to become fire again.
I'm just baffled that doing something as (relatively)simple as inventing a different element effect and paying costly for it to be so hard. I mostly have an itch for these from stuff like landlords, where they invented their own spells, or good old classic such as Bigby or the other named dnd spells.
Corvo's Frostbomb!
A straight port of fire to frost (or any other element) is not something I've ever found cheesy or unbalancing, especially at a 4,500gp price tag. I've had access to various spells that don't use traditional elements (from walls of acid to acidballs) for approximately four years in my current game without balance issues.
Removing components is pretty cheesy though.
Yeah, components part is cheesy, I'm not really gonna touch it unless it's a simple spell he made for escaping grapples. It was just poorly wording on my side as now easy it was to meet the component-less using the existing table.
Metamagic is only on the fly if you're a spontaneous spellcaster, and then the casting time of the spell increases - prepared spellcasters can't apply metamagic on the spot, they have to specifically choose metamagic feats to affect their spells when they memorize them.
And like I said, I'd put it somewhere between level 3 and level 4 mainly because Fireball is already a strong level 3 spell and is balanced by the fact that fire resistance is very common.
To compare, I'd have no issue with taking Shocking Grasp and altering it to Fire Grasp while keeping it level 1 because fire is on average less powerful than electricity. If you wanted to make Force Grasp (dealing Force Damage) or Sonic Grasp on the other hand, I'd have to look at some alternatives and I'd probably either make it a level 2 spell or ask for some changes (d4 base damage for force, 1d6/2 levels for sonic for instance).
Metamagic is only on the fly if you're a spontaneous spellcaster, and then the casting time of the spell increases - prepared spellcasters can't apply metamagic on the spot, they have to specifically choose metamagic feats to affect their spells when they memorize them.
And like I said, I'd put it somewhere between level 3 and level 4 mainly because Fireball is already a strong level 3 spell and is balanced by the fact that fire resistance is very common.
To compare, I'd have no issue with taking Shocking Grasp and altering it to Fire Grasp while keeping it level 1 because fire is on average less powerful than electricity. If you wanted to make Force Grasp (dealing Force Damage) or Sonic Grasp on the other hand, I'd have to look at some alternatives and I'd probably either make it a level 2 spell or ask for some changes (d4 base damage for force, 1d6/2 levels for sonic for instance).
I meant on the spot as easier, even being ability to tailor your spells during morning prep is pretty on the spot compared to a week and 1,000gp per spell level and skill checks.