Grenadier? So how does that work exactly?


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The Exchange 2/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

By the time you can afford an 18,000 gp ring, healing 2 points of ability damage isn't a problem.

The tough part for cognatogens is when you are less than 7th level or so and you either don't have second level extracts, or they are a precious resource.

Of course if you start play at 7-10th level, it's not a big deal.


Thomas Graham wrote:


A full on Alchemist can get a craft roll in to make them (1/2 cost) and anyone with a day job Alchemcy skill can get a Artisan Vanity which gives a 5% discount. (Not a lot granted.. my GS/Alch has a gun shop instead)

I realize this goes back quite a ways, but going through some of the Alchemist threads after searching. :)

But just wanted to add, I'm pretty sure it's 1/3 the cost, not 1/2, as crafting mundane items is 1/3 cost, and Craft Alchemy should fall underneath that.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Hobbun wrote:
Thomas Graham wrote:


A full on Alchemist can get a craft roll in to make them (1/2 cost) and anyone with a day job Alchemcy skill can get a Artisan Vanity which gives a 5% discount. (Not a lot granted.. my GS/Alch has a gun shop instead)

I realize this goes back quite a ways, but going through some of the Alchemist threads after searching. :)

But just wanted to add, I'm pretty sure it's 1/3 the cost, not 1/2, as crafting mundane items is 1/3 cost, and Craft Alchemy should fall underneath that.

it is 1/3 cost

BTW thanks to folks on this thread, some of the suggestions have been very helpful.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

mind chemist vs Grenadier is an interesting conversation. The weapon proficiency is really the problem in my view. If Grenadiers got many bombs instead of the rather worthless weapon prof they would be equal. At this point i would have to give an edge to the chemist for that reason. Mind you they are both very effective. My Grenadier is doing 6d6 blasts at range 100 at 5th level, thats not bad.

Grand Lodge 1/5

And the Lord did spake, saying, "First shalt though pull out the Holy Pin. Then thalt thou count to three: no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count to, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four thou shalt not count to, nor thou countest to two, unless though proceedeth then to three. Five is right out. Once three, being the third number, shall be reached then lobest aloft thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch at thine enemies who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it."

Amen.

And that's how the Grenadier works!


neferphras wrote:
mind chemist vs Grenadier is an interesting conversation. The weapon proficiency is really the problem in my view. If Grenadiers got many bombs instead of the rather worthless weapon prof they would be equal. At this point i would have to give an edge to the chemist for that reason. Mind you they are both very effective. My Grenadier is doing 6d6 blasts at range 100 at 5th level, thats not bad.

Explosive missile (3D6 bomb)+2D6 Alchemical weapon (Hybridization funnel-2 1D6 alchemical weapons)+1D6 bow damage?

Dark Archive 4/5

Can you put an alchemical weapon on an explosive missile and then fire it out of your bow? I would like to see the way those rules interact.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Adam Mogyorodi wrote:

Can you put an alchemical weapon on an explosive missile and then fire it out of your bow? I would like to see the way those rules interact. [/QUOTE

Not using explosive missile but you have the right idea. I kind of think that is a waste of a discovery because of....

Conductive.
Price +1 bonus
Aura moderate necromancy; CL 8th; Weight —

DESCRIPTION

A conductive weapon is able to channel the energy of a spell-like or supernatural ability that relies on a melee or ranged touch attack to hit its target (such as from a cleric's domain granted power, sorcerer's bloodline power, oracle's mystery revelation, or wizard's arcane school power). When the wielder makes a successful attack of the appropriate type, he may choose to expend two uses of his magical ability to channel it through the weapon to the struck opponent, which suffers the effects of both the weapon attack and the special ability. (If the wielder has unlimited uses of a special ability, she may channel through the weapon every round.) For example, a paladin who strikes an undead opponent with her conductive greatsword can expend two uses of her lay on hands ability (a supernatural melee touch attack) to deal both greatsword damage and damage from one use of lay on hands. This weapon special ability can only be used once per round, and only works with magical abilities of the same type as the weapon (melee or ranged).

bombs are an Supernatural ability

so conductive bow 1d8 damage, 1d6 alchemist fire+ 1d6 electric (shake and bake through Hybridization Funnel) 3d6 from the bomb (alchemist level 5th) +1d6 from Unstable Accelerant. so 1d8 +1d6 fire , 1d6 electric and an additional 4d6 IF i hit. (the 'if i hit' is why Conductive is better than explosive missile in my view you dont waste bombs on a miss)

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
Can you put an alchemical weapon on an explosive missile and then fire it out of your bow? I would like to see the way those rules interact.

the interact fine because they apply damage in waves. so explosive missile adds your bomb damage to the missile

alchemic weapon adds a substance
they stack but dont add

so 1d whatever from your missile weapon
3d6 from bomb (at 5th level) fire
1d6 alchemist fire
1d6 lightning it a bottle

the down side of this is that any resistance is applied to each individually. Which sucks against say...a demon

enter Unstable Accelerant which actually adds a d6 to you bomb damage helping to overcome resistance.


That's certainly an interesting combination. Although I don't if it's worth it burning through two uses of your bombs to do so, at least not on a regular basis. I would actually rather just take Explosive Missile and where it only takes one bomb.

Another thing to keep in mind is Unstable Accelerant is Hobgoblin only. So you are not able to use it, at least not in PFS.

Adam,

I don't see why you can't attach an alchemical weapon and use Explosive Missile together, there are no rules that bar it. Infusing the arrow with a bomb is part of your standard action, and attaching an alchemical weapon is a move action (swift action at 6th level), so you could do both in one round.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

you are correct for the PFS version of this build you could not use the accelerate, mind you 5d6 is still not bad.
Also thats not normally the shake and bake i do. I do holy water ghast wretch, or alch fire and ghast wretch. Automatic sicken is the way to go on single targets. Go for the big boom against the masses.

2/5

Just wanted to point out to other fellow alchemists, that bottled lightning is neither a liquid, nor is it a splash weapon so it can't really be utilized with a funnel nor with the grenadier's Alchemical weapons

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

kinevon wrote:
I presume, though, an Alchemist can infuse Holy Water, to make a potentially devastating attack against an undead opponent...

Holy water isn't an alchemical item (though it is a splash weapon). It is created with the bless water spell. Though if you combine it with another alchemical item using a hybridization funnel the resulting mixture is an alchemical item.

Shadow Lodge 2/5

Michael Eshleman wrote:
kinevon wrote:
I presume, though, an Alchemist can infuse Holy Water, to make a potentially devastating attack against an undead opponent...
Holy water isn't an alchemical item (though it is a splash weapon). It is created with the bless water spell. Though if you combine it with another alchemical item using a hybridization funnel the resulting mixture is an alchemical item.

Holy water is actually in the Alchemical Weapons section. I would presume this would allow it to be considered an alchemical item, even if it can't be created using Craft (alchemy).

Sczarni

And since this topic has popped up again, I'd like to point out that a Grenadier with Longbow proficiency using the Hybridization Funnel+Alchemical Weapon+Explosive Missle Discovery trick can apply all that goodness to a Dye Arrow from Elves of Golarion to again hit touch AC at longbow ranges. >=D

You do lose any Longbow damage, but pft, who cares at that point?


Is Elves of Golarian legal? I had thought that book was not allowed, or at least the arrows from it.

5/5

Hobbun wrote:
Is Elves of Golarian legal? I had thought that book was not allowed, or at least the arrows from it.

It was changed to allow some of the alchemical arrows. I can't search the thread right now, but if you check Additional Resources, you'll find which one are legal.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/5 *

I just did an encounter where my grenadier did a LOT of damage to a giant fiendish wasp.

1d8 + 5, + 1d6 (alchemist fire)+ 15d6 falling (the last was done via an explosive missile/tanglefoot bomb.

So so pretty

Sovereign Court 4/5 *

Their is always the discovery sacred bombs.

5/5 5/55/55/5

neferphras wrote:

Also under Alchemical Weapon, it says coat 1 weapon or piece of ammo. That is a bit inconsistant other such abilities which affect a quiver (12 bolts, 3 bullets) of a given ammo or a weapon. So was that an error

You're not just coating the weapon you're doing This

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/5 *

Of fun note is tracking the 'action economy' of the Grenadier's 'infuse weapon' + 'explosive missile' action.

BOTH my alchemist grenadiers are fairly low in level (one is 5 Gren/5 MM, the other is 4 Gren).

For them it goes.

Move action: Infuse Weapon, Standard action: Explosive Missile.

EVENTUALLY (6th level) it goes Swift Action: Infuse, Standard: Explosive Missile (And if you are persistent.. Free action @ 15th)

Looking at the fun list of stuff (even discounting things like Tanglefoot(burn) bags, you got LOTS of fun to have with them.

-Ghast Stench (a powder) inflicts 3 rounds of sickened at a minimum (barring poison resistance)
-Holy Water makes for fun to be had by all this season.
-Alchemist Fire/Acid/Alkali are all fun as well
-Burst Jar (it's two liquids)
-Itching Powder (terrible low DC)
-Liquid Ice
-Shard Gel (this one is iffy as it's a GEL not an outright liquid, I keep them around for 'instant caltrops')

Mixing/matching these with an Admixture Funnel can make for lots of fun

Options I haven't used yet:
-Flashpowder
-Noxious Aromatic
-Shadowcloy Flask
-Slime Slow (for oozes and anything with an Amorphous bodytype.
-Sneezing powder

More fun to come in the coming months iwth the Alchemists Handbook (or whatever it is called coming)

Add in the OTHER things you can make/handout.
-Antiplague/Toxin (Keep a bunch.. a bonus never hurts)
-Troll Stypic (sure the player MIGHT be sickened but it's a good stable healing option. Fast Heal 2 for 2d4 rounds is nothing to sneer at)
-Blanches. Gods above.. let me repeat that BLANCHES.
-Twitch Tonic, Sooth syrup, Smelling Salts, Meditation Tea.

It's easy to see why my Alchemist has a STUFFED handy haversack (AT CAP) now.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Serum wrote:
Holy water is actually in the Alchemical Weapons section. I would presume this would allow it to be considered an alchemical item, even if it can't be created using Craft (alchemy).

In the CRB it is on the "Special Substances and and Items" chart. Only in Ultimate Equipment is it included on a chart called "Alchemical Weapons". Additionally, the header on the latter chart states "Each of these substances can be made with the Craft (alchemy) skill." That is not true for holy water, ergo it is not an alchemical weapon.

Scarab Sages 5/5

Secane wrote:
trollbill wrote:

James Jacobs has spoken on this. Tanglefoot bag cannot be infused via Alchemical Weapon (Su).

Read all about it HERE.

What if you used the funnel to mix it with a liquid - the funnel says it gets the properties of both - right? so a tanglefoot acid might be affixable to a missile.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/5 *

Dhjika wrote:
Secane wrote:
trollbill wrote:

James Jacobs has spoken on this. Tanglefoot bag cannot be infused via Alchemical Weapon (Su).

Read all about it HERE.

What if you used the funnel to mix it with a liquid - the funnel says it gets the properties of both - right? so a tanglefoot acid might be affixable to a missile.

Sadly, only liquids can be mixed together.


MrRetsej wrote:

And since this topic has popped up again, I'd like to point out that a Grenadier with Longbow proficiency using the Hybridization Funnel+Alchemical Weapon+Explosive Missle Discovery trick can apply all that goodness to a Dye Arrow from Elves of Golarion to again hit touch AC at longbow ranges. >=D

You do lose any Longbow damage, but pft, who cares at that point?

Hm. Spell Storing Dye Arrows. Load with curing spells.

And I just started a healer-archer. Thanks!

Edit: Gah, Spell Storing is melee-only. Dammit. Nevermind.

-j

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Thomas Graham wrote:

Of fun note is tracking the 'action economy' of the Grenadier's 'infuse weapon' + 'explosive missile' action.

BOTH my alchemist grenadiers are fairly low in level (one is 5 Gren/5 MM, the other is 4 Gren).

For them it goes.

Move action: Infuse Weapon, Standard action: Explosive Missile.

EVENTUALLY (6th level) it goes Swift Action: Infuse, Standard: Explosive Missile (And if you are persistent.. Free action @ 15th)

Actually, it goes:

Move action: retrieve alch weapon vial
Move action: infuse
Standard action: Explosive Missile.

so unless you start combat with your potion in hand, it is a multi round operation.

it does make tiefling tails very nice:

swift action: retrieve alch weapon
move action: infuse
standard: explosive missile

but it pretty much negates the 6th level bonus...

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