Imagine if you will a level 1 half elf bard with the following stats.
Str. 12
dex. 14
con. 10
int. 12
wis. 7
cha. 16 (including +2 racial)
She has an additional 5 points to spend on chargen, but these are final.
How stupid would it be to multiclass into paladin, where should the 5 points go if she did, and would it be better to focus on the paladin side or the bard side?
multi-classing these two will pretty much guarantee your spellcasting will never be 'powerful' compared to what you are fighting.
You can get nice synergy out of your charisma, and if you are looking for a flavorful, militarized, knightly bard (courtly bard), a 2 level dip in Paladin isn't a horrible idea.
If you are looking for a character that is vying for the title of "least optimized in history"... make him a mystic thuerge.
Being a bard guarantees that my spellcasting will never be 'powerful', but losing one/two levels in the progression isn't so bad, particularly if I take that trait the would let those levels count for caster level at least.
I'm thinking being a paladin with a couple of bard levels will be less of a hit to the paladin, than being a bard with a couple of levels of paladin will be to the bard.
Eh, we started as 10 point buy in a cursed world, making everyone in it into total mooks. We broke the curse and now people are generally more powerful, ramping everyone up to 15 point buy retroactively.
I basically just wanted a ranged bard, who wasn't a total imbecile if it came to melee and who might get a +1 damage to her ranged attacks through strength.
certainly, dex 16 is an obvious choice
I've played a Bard1/Paladin, ranged, to very good and fun effect. You could do the same with finesse perhaps. Either way, I'd increase the Dex to 15 or 16.
A BardX/Paladin2 has obvious advantages too - it's up to you which suits your character more. I*do* suggest one or the other though - an even mix would not be very good.
You should look into the Arcane Duelist archetype, since it is a better combatant than the standard bard and you can cast in heavy armor (eventually).
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I would go cleric/bard
IT IS AMAZING AND A TOTALLY UNDERRATED MULTICLASS.
It is the ultimate support class.
Start with a level in bard and then go cleric. Take levels like this
B/C/B/C/B/C/B/C/B/C..... level 20th.
For stats:
Bard spells goes on charisma and cleric channeling
Cleric spells goes on wisdom
Your stats should be priorited like this:
cha
wis
con
dex
int
str
If you want to be debuffing with your cleric spells a higher wisdom is a very smart choise.
I played though whole Crimson Throne AP with this support guy in my party. He was the best friend an adventurer could have.
Trust me. I can describe it in more details with feats and such if anyone wants.
Imagine if you will a level 1 half elf bard with the following stats.
Str. 12
dex. 14
con. 10
int. 12
wis. 7
cha. 16 (including +2 racial)She has an additional 5 points to spend on chargen, but these are final.
How stupid would it be to multiclass into paladin, where should the 5 points go if she did, and would it be better to focus on the paladin side or the bard side?
Three points in Strength to raise it to 14, 2 points in Constitution to raise it to 12.
You'd probably be better off going with two levels of Paladin and then Bard the rest of the way, especially if you're careful about your Archetypes. It could work the other way too, but you should honestly run the character as a 1st level Bard/19th level Paladin or 2nd level Paladin/18th level Bard... an even split would cause each class to neuter the other.
Consider an Oracle/Paladin - I posted a build following that concept here.
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I'm interested in this. I want to play a pure support bard, and multiclassing into cleric could be pretty cool. I want all the details :DI would go cleric/bard
IT IS AMAZING AND A TOTALLY UNDERRATED MULTICLASS.It is the ultimate support class.
Start with a level in bard and then go cleric. Take levels like this
B/C/B/C/B/C/B/C/B/C..... level 20th.For stats:
Bard spells goes on charisma and cleric channeling
Cleric spells goes on wisdomYour stats should be priorited like this:
cha
wis
con
dex
int
strIf you want to be debuffing with your cleric spells a higher wisdom is a very smart choise.
I played though whole Crimson Throne AP with this support guy in my party. He was the best friend an adventurer could have.
Trust me. I can describe it in more details with feats and such if anyone wants.
I would highly, highly recommend against what's proposed in this post...
You should look into the Arcane Duelist archetype, since it is a better combatant than the standard bard and you can cast in heavy armor (eventually).
I've got a nice Arcane Duelist build that takes the Eldritch Heritage feats for Arcane Bloodline and two Arcane Bonded items... two extra spells a day and an expanded spell list from the human favored class option makes him both a more effective melee combatant than most Bards AND a more effective caster as well.
Paladin 4 with oath of vengeance and take extra LoH. Make a divine hunter, take another 4-5 lvls of arcane duelist bard, and finish out as arcane archer. This will give you some great combat options, and you won't be too far behind on spells, just enough to be versatile and spread out some solid healing/ buffs/ burst damage.
I'm interested in this. I want to play a pure support bard, and multiclassing into cleric could be pretty cool. I want all the details :DI would go cleric/bard
IT IS AMAZING AND A TOTALLY UNDERRATED MULTICLASS.It is the ultimate support class.
Start with a level in bard and then go cleric. Take levels like this
B/C/B/C/B/C/B/C/B/C..... level 20th.For stats:
Bard spells goes on charisma and cleric channeling
Cleric spells goes on wisdomYour stats should be priorited like this:
cha
wis
con
dex
int
strIf you want to be debuffing with your cleric spells a higher wisdom is a very smart choise.
I played though whole Crimson Throne AP with this support guy in my party. He was the best friend an adventurer could have.
Trust me. I can describe it in more details with feats and such if anyone wants.
That is a terrible idea. I have to ask what do want to do in the game?
Mainly just roleplay a bard. I'm not very interested in combat. So I feel like I should be able to support my team without actually having to attack much. multiclassing in to cleric could be a good way to do that.That is a terrible idea. I have to ask what do want to do in the game?I'm interested in this. I want to play a pure support bard, and multiclassing into cleric could be pretty cool. I want all the details :DI would go cleric/bard
IT IS AMAZING AND A TOTALLY UNDERRATED MULTICLASS.It is the ultimate support class.
Start with a level in bard and then go cleric. Take levels like this
B/C/B/C/B/C/B/C/B/C..... level 20th.For stats:
Bard spells goes on charisma and cleric channeling
Cleric spells goes on wisdomYour stats should be priorited like this:
cha
wis
con
dex
int
strIf you want to be debuffing with your cleric spells a higher wisdom is a very smart choise.
I played though whole Crimson Throne AP with this support guy in my party. He was the best friend an adventurer could have.
Trust me. I can describe it in more details with feats and such if anyone wants.
A Cleric can support a party very well and a Bard can support a party very well - but a Cleric/Bard would suffer.
First off, you're way too MAD with one class casting off of Wisdom while another class casts off of Charisma. If you were going to multi-class, you'd be better off going Bard/Sorcerer or Bard/Oracle (Charisma) instead. Also, there is a fair bit of overlap between the Cleric's spells and the Bard's spells, especially when it comes to healing. The big thing though is that you will severly retard the rate at which you gain higher level spells - you don't want to be spamming Cure Light Wounds when you're fighting high level monsters, after all.
We had a non-combatant Bard once, a Lotus Geisha, who served the roles of healer, buffer and face superbly well, freeing up the other classes to mix it up... another relatively non-combatant Bard we had went Archeologist (think Rogue without the sneak attack) who became the trap-detector extraordinare but we didn't gain the benefit of performance.
From what you're saying, I'd suggest you maybe pick a single Oracle mystery you really like and take a level in Oracle to pick it up along with a few spells and then go all Bard. Along the way, take the Eldritch Heritage feats for the Arcane Bloodline to expand your spell-casting a bit. Go Human to make the most out of your skills via Focused Study and an expanded spell knowledge. Poke around in the archetypes to see what appeals to you - the trick as a Bard, since they don't gain spells in the volume a full caster would - is to figure out what you're doing when you're not casting spells and you're not fighting. There are some good options out there.
You could also make a pretty good healing/buffing/debuffing Witch without engaging in combat as well.
I'd be happy to help you put something together if you like.
Mainly just roleplay a bard. I'm not very interested in combat. So I feel like I should be able to support my team without actually having to attack much. multiclassing in to cleric could be a good way to do that.That is a terrible idea. I have to ask what do want to do in the game?I'm interested in this. I want to play a pure support bard, and multiclassing into cleric could be pretty cool. I want all the details :DI would go cleric/bard
IT IS AMAZING AND A TOTALLY UNDERRATED MULTICLASS.It is the ultimate support class.
Start with a level in bard and then go cleric. Take levels like this
B/C/B/C/B/C/B/C/B/C..... level 20th.For stats:
Bard spells goes on charisma and cleric channeling
Cleric spells goes on wisdomYour stats should be priorited like this:
cha
wis
con
dex
int
strIf you want to be debuffing with your cleric spells a higher wisdom is a very smart choise.
I played though whole Crimson Throne AP with this support guy in my party. He was the best friend an adventurer could have.
Trust me. I can describe it in more details with feats and such if anyone wants.
In that case go straight bard. Bards are the game's best buffers.
edit:You don't need mechanics to RP so the multiclassing is not needed.
I'm not an idiot, and going into cleric with wisdom 7 would be just that, idiocy.
Ok, the GM just dropped a bomb on me which changes things completely.
She's getting the Half-Celestial Template. (which has a TON of nice bonuses, including, not inconsequentially, +4 to three ability scores and +2 to the other three)
I also have the option of making her as a Bard 2, a Paladin 2 or a Bard 1/Paladin 1
This means I could easily make her into a melee character (by using the 5 points to raise strength to 14 and con to 12, then two of the +4's to make them 18 and 16, respectively)
Or I could push dex up to 20, making her a VERY effective flying ranged combatant.
I gotta say, going full half-celestial melee-paladin is very appealing. But a ranged flying full bard would also be very cool. The Half-celestial template would give her a bunch of paladin flavor, even without actual paladin levels.
Thoughts?
If you want to be buffer just go straight bard. They are not bad in melee. Get a decent strength score and power attack, and you are good to go.
Well maybe a 2 level dip in paladin for the saves, but after that go straight bard.